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Old 08-04-2013, 09:04 PM   #1
Shpati
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Default This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

if dofp sux, they just need to quit.

- too many writers and directors.

- continuity sucks, that's y they are going the time traveling route.

- Hugh, Ian, and Patrick aren't getting younger.

- Cyclops?

- Hailie Berry almost single handily killed X3. and she is coming back. I hope she dies in the beginning of the next.

They should also consider renaming the franchise to "The Wolverine and the X Men".

Id rather see a well built trilogy with the same director and writers.

This franchise now is a mess. I really liked the direction FC was going (best xmen movie by far imo). And now the overrated Singer has to take **** over.

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Old 08-04-2013, 10:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

Reboot should be saved until the next decade.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

Reboot should never happen with only a few exceptions. X-Men is not one of them.

Reboots are beyond lame.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

Rather than reboots, you can just do standalone stories like The Wolverine. Even recasting characters is better than straight-up rebooting this very successful film series

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Old 08-05-2013, 11:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

FC and The Wolverine disagree, no need for a reboot.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

I have liked exactly 4 reboots

1:Batman begins(although some of things In Dark Knight rises makes me second guess)

2:The Incredible Hulk-So much better than hulk

3:the Amazing Spider-man-best spider-man film

4:Rise of the planet of the apes

all others no.J.J. Abrams just turned Star Trek Into Star Wars lite.I just haven't
been excited by any of rebooted james bond films like ones before.I would rather
see contunians with all new cast than reboots.Hollywood Is on a reboot madness.Hell I am shocked the next star wars film Isn't a reboot.

and once again First class was never a reboot.Yeah it caused some contunity problems with the cross between prequel and fresh film.And seriously Bryan singer devolped the story,picked the characters,and was handson producer on set nearly every day during filming In London.

And it doesn't matter what some people online think If DOFP Is a hit the series will continue.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

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FC and The Wolverine disagree, no need for a reboot.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

To the OP: Your premise is so flawed that the only things I can formulate a response for are the following:
Quote:
continuity sucks, that's y they are going the time traveling route.
No, the current continuity doesn't suck. The time-travel isn't going to even remotely do what a lot of fans think it ought to, and, at most, will clarify a few things and probably result in a few details of existing events having been changed.

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This franchise now is a mess.
No, it's not. There are a few things that could stand to be clarified and a few inconsnstencies that need to be explained, but things are not nearly as bad as people think they are.

Quote:
I really liked the direction FC was going (best xmen movie by far imo). And now the overrated Singer has to take **** over.
I honestly can't take this comment seriously. Singer is just as responsible for the quality of First Class as Vaughn was.

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Old 08-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

I've enjoyed watching this series return to form, as it has with the last two films, rather than see just another reboot.

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Old 08-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

He does start his post with "if Dofp sux" which no one knows and probably unlikely.

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Old 08-06-2013, 12:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

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I've enjoyed watching this series return to form, as it has with the last two films, rather than see just another reboot.
Agreed, in fact I've become a little bit disenchanted with the way Marvel films are going and FC and TW have sort of gotten me back in the mood for them again.

I'm not trashing Marvel, they do good stuff and they are dang popular, but for me x-men is going in some interesting directions I just hope they can keep it up and improve with DoFP and any potential X-force film.

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

I've said it elsewhere...

They've dug themselves a hole too big to get out of. Do DOFP, possibly have that one end with a set up to the Age of Apocalypse and then it would be time for the reboot.

They need to fix all of the crap. I've got no real problem with Singer continuing as Director in the future, but as some have stated above, the actors and actresses aren't getting any younger and the continuity issues are too many and too much.

Before the try to go forward with X-Force or Deadpool, or anything else, they need to just realize that they screwed up too bad to keep going!

A reboot for say 2018 makes a lot of sense.

Maybe start post Giant Sized X-Men #1 with so many good characters on the team. By doing this they could have X-Factor already formed, maybe Excalibre forming soon, the New Mutants at the mansion ready to be formed and turned into X-Force by Cable, Magneto living in Genosha or on Asteroid M, and a really good X-Men line-up that makes sense...

See, we don't need to see the origins of the X-Men. By starting "in the middle" they could have flashback movies, for a lack of a better term, if they want. But let's be honest with some things...

1. Wolverine is the most popular character.
2. You need to have Xavier.
3. We need more relationships, and not just some overused love triangle.
4. We need an X-Universe that makes sense, including the continuity.

So, let's look at the line-up of the X-Men around the time that X-Factor was doing their thing...

Seems like a great place to start would be with Mr. Sinister and the Marauders, which means the Mutant Massacre story with the Morlocks. The following would be possible X-Men starting characters:

Colossus, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Psylocke, Gambit (yeah!!!), Rogue, and Storm.

What's great is that the general audiece has been introduced to these characters, so no problem starting with so many. Make Nightcrawler good, Gambit better, and Rogue fly and be super strong. No need to explain why, which could be used as a later movie storyline...

Maybe have some cameos of Cannonball, Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Karma, Magik, etc. This could set up a great story for the New Mutants, where they meet Warlock and have to fight against the Phalanx.

And this would allow a natural development over year for X-Force.

It really is too bad that Fox has missed the mark so badly. Worse that they allowed Gavin Hood to run things without being put in check by Singer. And much, much worse that Brett Ratner was ever allowed near the X-Men!

Really, sometimes it's just best to cut bait and start over!

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Old 08-30-2013, 11:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

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FC and The Wolverine disagree, no need for a reboot.
Bingo.

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Old 08-30-2013, 11:32 AM   #14
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Bingo.
Agreed.

My highly positive feelings of X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine aside, in the grand scheme of things, we're getting a 7 movie series that has 2 clunkers. That's not a "bad" series by any stretch of the imagination. That's a -good- series, with some disappointments to it. Even Star Wars had Ewoks.

Also, while there are a handful of less than desirable plot points throughout the series, and a couple minor shaky continuity issues, the timeline and overall progression of the series isn't nearly as borked as people make it out to be. The only real continuity issue of any significance is the details of Xavier's paralysis, but the actual contradiction of that is so minor and insignificant it's hardly worth noticing. It really is nothing more than a "whoops, they didn't keep that accurate", then you move on because it has zero bearing on the actual story.

X-Men is the last film franchise that needs a reboot or should be getting one. It started off strong, had a couple disappointments, and then picked itself right back up and brought itself back to high quality. If this franchise needs anything, it's a hiatus, not a reboot. I feel like there's X-Men / Wolverine fatigue coming from this franchise starting to over extend itself.

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Old 08-30-2013, 11:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

I have liked exactly 7 reboots:

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1:Batman begins(although some of things In Dark Knight rises makes me second guess)

2:The Incredible Hulk-So much better than hulk

3:the Amazing Spider-man-best spider-man film

4:Rise of the planet of the apes
5. Man of Steel. Way more watchable than 1, 2, 3, 4 or Returns

6. Dredd. Much better than the original, even with it's "classic" status.

7. Star Trek or if Casino Royale counts I choose that one.

In other words, reboot away! I'm ready to see the original Uncanny X-Men team. Giant Size in a sequel. Phoenix Saga done right. Inevitable Age of Apocalypse. Etc.

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Old 08-30-2013, 03:46 PM   #16
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Agreed.

My highly positive feelings of X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine aside, in the grand scheme of things, we're getting a 7 movie series that has 2 clunkers. That's not a "bad" series by any stretch of the imagination. That's a -good- series, with some disappointments to it. Even Star Wars had Ewoks.

Also, while there are a handful of less than desirable plot points throughout the series, and a couple minor shaky continuity issues, the timeline and overall progression of the series isn't nearly as borked as people make it out to be. The only real continuity issue of any significance is the details of Xavier's paralysis, but the actual contradiction of that is so minor and insignificant it's hardly worth noticing. It really is nothing more than a "whoops, they didn't keep that accurate", then you move on because it has zero bearing on the actual story.

X-Men is the last film franchise that needs a reboot or should be getting one. It started off strong, had a couple disappointments, and then picked itself right back up and brought itself back to high quality. If this franchise needs anything, it's a hiatus, not a reboot. I feel like there's X-Men / Wolverine fatigue coming from this franchise starting to over extend itself.
But there's just too much that is now messed up. Could they fix some of it with the "well the timeline was messed with, so things are fixed" plot point? Sure, but I'm not sure it would be enough...

Here are some things to think about...

1. Patrick Stewart is getting old, and having Xavier in the X-Men universe is usually a good thing. Guess he could be recast, but why not recast during a reboot.

2. Ian McClellan is getting old. We have not experienced Magneto in Genosha, or Magneto on Asteroid M. Why not recast during a reboot?

3. Kind of hard to do the Phoenix Sage right since they have already done it so wrong, unless you reboot giving you the freedom to do it again.

4. The Morlocks could make a great story, but they've totally ruined Leech and Callisto, both good characters for this story. Why would Leech take away Beasts fur?

5. Angel is such a wuss of a character. I would love to someday see Apocalypse turn him into Archangel, but in the current X-Universe that's not likely.

6. Hugh Jackman. I've loved his performances as Wolvie, but again, he's not getting any younger. If movies from the X-Universe are to be around for a while recasting at some point will have to happen.

7. Emma Frost. Origins version = epic fail and even First Class's version wasn't so great. A reboot allows for both recasting and a new, better take.

8. Nightcrawler. Alan Cumming himself was good, but the character wasn't great. What was the need for all those tattoos? He needs to be rebooted as the swashbuckling version that goes off and helps create Excalbre.

9. Cyclops. Bring him back. Guess this could be done with messing around with the timeline route.

10. Havok. Good character in First Class, but just threw the timeline requirements of that character out the window. Reboot and bring him back as the YOUNGER brother of Scott. This was he could be there for a relationship with...

11. Polaris. She's good, but mainly as a love interest, in the present, for Havok.

12. Blob. Origins ruined him. Period! Plus he's dead!

13. Rogue. Reboot allows her to get Ms. Marvel's powers. Would love to see that.

14. Cable. Hard to get him with Scott and Jean being dead. Guess they could fix that with the mess with the timeline route.

15. X-Force without Cable would be a crime!

16. The Hellfire Club. Was slightly ruined in First Class. Always wanted to see the elite inner circle with the whole Black King, White Queen, etc.
Kind of hard to do it right after the name has been used, unless you reboot.

17. Psylocke. Making her some secondary character was bad. Rebooting with her already as an Asian Ninja badass with mental powers and a Psionic Knife would be great. Easily done with a reboot.

18. The New Mutants. There haven't been any, not really. A reboot allows them to start already kinda formed. Cannonball, Magik, Doug, etc.!!!!!

19. Juggrnaught. Last Stand ruined him. Making him a mutant just so he can get knocked out by Leech? Epic Fail. He deserved to be the main villain in a flick, and should be Xavier's half-brother and not some Australian dude.

20. Multiple Man. Again, Last Stand ruined him!

Anyone want to add some of their own?

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

You act like a reboot is magically going to do everything right, and not piss anyone else off. It's not like your ideas are the be all end all of X-Men movie success, as most of what you listed I have zero problem with, and don't need a movie to "rectify" them.

The inconsistencies in the current franchise don't require a reboot to fix, as they are hardly any sort of significant. As far as getting certain stories right - a reboot is just going to come with it's own set of problems and inaccuracies, and while it might satisfy certain people that weren't happy with certain aspects of the current franchise, it's just going to make other people mad because of the new things it gets wrong.

"Reboot" isn't some magic cure all like fanboys want to make them out to be. The term gets tossed around way too liberally, and outside of a few exceptions, reboots don't garner the interest of the mainstream audience when they've already seen the story before.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:23 PM   #18
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That's the most cockamamie list I've ever read, Super Jim.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #19
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That's the most cockamamie list I've ever read, Super Jim.
You said it, not me lol.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #20
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But there's just too much that is now messed up. Could they fix some of it with the "well the timeline was messed with, so things are fixed" plot point? Sure, but I'm not sure it would be enough...

Here are some things to think about...

1. Patrick Stewart is getting old, and having Xavier in the X-Men universe is usually a good thing. Guess he could be recast, but why not recast during a reboot.

2. Ian McClellan is getting old. We have not experienced Magneto in Genosha, or Magneto on Asteroid M. Why not recast during a reboot?

6. Hugh Jackman. I've loved his performances as Wolvie, but again, he's not getting any younger. If movies from the X-Universe are to be around for a while recasting at some point will have to happen.
These are silly reasons to justify a reboot, especially since they already have McAvoy and Fassbender playing Xavier and Mags. Not to mention, Jackman is still in fine form to play Wolverine if needed.

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3. Kind of hard to do the Phoenix Sage right since they have already done it so wrong, unless you reboot giving you the freedom to do it again.
They could certainly do another run at the Phoenix saga with a younger Jean Grey. Especially if DOFP makes some elements from X3 moot which I'm going to assume it certainly may. No one's going to be mad if Singer decided he wanted to do is own take.

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4. The Morlocks could make a great story, but they've totally ruined Leech and Callisto, both good characters for this story. Why would Leech take away Beasts fur?
Leech isn't a necessary member of the Morlocks that he needs to be in the movie. His powers are to remove other mutants powers and mutations within his general vinicity - why would that not result in a brief removal of Beasts fur, that is a part of his mutation.

As far as Callisto - I'm going to assume DOFP will possibly negate some elements from the previous franchise so she could certainly be introduced in a new or alternate timeline.

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5. Angel is such a wuss of a character. I would love to someday see Apocalypse turn him into Archangel, but in the current X-Universe that's not likely.
How is that not likely? Angel was briefly in a couple of scenes during X3, that doesn't mean they couldn't introduce him again in an altered timeline that will surely happen after DOFP.

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7. Emma Frost. Origins version = epic fail and even First Class's version wasn't so great. A reboot allows for both recasting and a new, better take.
They can just recast her in any subsequent appearances after First Class. No one is going to complain that they got another actress to play her in a later movie.

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8. Nightcrawler. Alan Cumming himself was good, but the character wasn't great. What was the need for all those tattoos? He needs to be rebooted as the swashbuckling version that goes off and helps create Excalbre.
Clearly you need to go back and watch X2. The point of his tattoos was a great plot point and added some depth to his character. He clearly states they are angelic markings from the archangel Gabriel, and Nightcrawler being such a religious person that made perfect sense and was a great touch.

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9. Cyclops. Bring him back. Guess this could be done with messing around with the timeline route.

10. Havok. Good character in First Class, but just threw the timeline requirements of that character out the window. Reboot and bring him back as the YOUNGER brother of Scott. This was he could be there for a relationship with...

11. Polaris. She's good, but mainly as a love interest, in the present, for Havok.
The Cyclops thing has already been touched upon multiple times. Havok potentially being older doesn't negate anything in regards to he and Cyclops relationship. In fact if I remember correctly, Ultimate Havok IS actually older than Cyclops and their relationship isn't any different.

Havok's origin in First Class doesn't really have any effect on Polaris either.


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13. Rogue. Reboot allows her to get Ms. Marvel's powers. Would love to see that.
With X1 & X2 being pretty much her origin story as well it made absolute sense why she didn't have her super powers and was accurate to the comics. She didn't gain her flight and superstrength for quite some time after her base powers activated.

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14. Cable. Hard to get him with Scott and Jean being dead. Guess they could fix that with the mess with the timeline route.
This is most certainly something they SHOULDN'T even begin to tackle. It's just completely unnecessary. I would be totally fine if they just say he's a time traveler and not Jean and Scotts son from the future. I can already see the eye-rolling in the movie theatre.

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15. X-Force without Cable would be a crime!
From everything we've heard about X-Force it certainly doesn't sound like Cable will be absent at all.


Every other point you made is pretty silly and things that can easily be rectified at any point.


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Old 08-30-2013, 09:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

Reboot talk again! FOX will only reboot this franchise once its no longer earning a lot of money, once most of the producers/actors don't want to return.

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Old 08-31-2013, 01:26 PM   #22
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Reboot should never happen with only a few exceptions. X-Men is not one of them.
^ This.

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This is most certainly something they SHOULDN'T even begin to tackle. It's just completely unnecessary. I would be totally fine if they just say he's a time traveler and not Jean and Scotts son from the future. I can already see the eye-rolling in the movie theatre.
Just leave his Origins open-endined to reveal later like Nightcrawler.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

taking into account the possible X-Force, 'X4' and FC3, I think the sooner we'll get a reboot is around 2023.

That would be 10 years from now... so... reboot supporters, have some patience, it will come, but you have to wait a few years


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Old 09-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #24
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Most of my arguments for a reboot look at the X-universe from the present point of view. For example, I agreed with Spati that if this thing is going to be around for a while that some of the main actors/actressess aren't getting any younger and that a reboot is a logical time to recast.

Obviously that doesn't mean that they have to reboot in order to recast, just that it's a perfect time to do so. But some above talked about Fassbender and McAvoy are the younger versions of Magneto and Xavier, and I totally agree they are great, but for the First Class and 1973 versions. I can't see them taking these actors and throwing them into the present versions.

I can't see them doing another Phoenix Saga story with one being done (albeit poorly) in Last Stand, in this current X-Universe. A reboot allows for this to be retold.

Many believe that they don't need to reboot because SInger will use DOFP to fix all of the bad things that Origins and Last Stand created. Maybe, we'll see, but it's just going to cause more turmoil with this timeline.

I guess what I'm saying is this...

I love the X-Men. Have been reading these comics since the 1970's! Have boxes and boxes of comics and the greater majority are X-Men. And although I mostly liked X1 and X2, First Class and The Wolverine; even though they broke from comic canon, the issues that Origins and Last Stand created are many. I guess I feel that this X-Universe could be so much cleaner and better, allowing for more stories. Could they try to just discount some things, like Callisto being bad and dead? Could they just pretent like we never saw Psylocke in Last Stand? Could they fix some of the crap with DOFP saying that going back and mucking with the past has changed the future so things like Jean and Scott being dead didn't happen? But think about this... if they do that then doesn't it throw everything into question? Doesn't it mean that everything we've been shown may or may not have happened? And if they go to that point then why not just go for the reboot?

Look, I love the X-Men and will go to the movie no matter what, it's just that I feel that they've missed too many opportunities and they've created too many problems. And if they keep going forward with X-Force and who knows what else, these problems may just become amplified.

Yes, my hope would be that a reboot could be used to create a new X-Universe with everything perfect. Would it be perfect? Who knows, but us fanboys could always hope. My list of things I dodn't like with the prior films was just something quick, off the top of my mind. I'm sure everyone has some things that bothered them.

Look, I would have liked to have seen the Blob as a good, reusable character, but Origins ruined (and killed) him.

I would have liked to have seen Gambit as part of the X-Men, and although that is possible it is more difficult because of how he was used in Origins.

Personally I like the swashbuckling Nightcrawler more than the religious one.

Personally I would rather have a Rogue that has the flight, strength and involulnerabilty.

I would have liked to see Havok in the present timeline in a relationship with Polaris.

I guess this is my problem with all of these X-Men movies...

If you take a good book that was made into a movie series, for example, Harry Potter, imagine if they changed the stories. Would that upset you? It would upset me. If Hagrid was a troll instead of a half-giant I wouldn't have liked it. If Harry was part of Huflepuff instead of Gryfindor, I wouldn't have been happy. If Harry played rugby instead of Quiditch, I wouldn't have been happy.

I know, most of these things I mention couldn't be changed since they were so important to the story, but the same could be said for the X-Men. The comic canon is very good, so why screw around with it? Why not just retell the classic stories that we already have? Guess that's what I would ideally want from a comic book movie, and sometimes the directors have gotten it right.

In movies like Ironman, for the most part the canon was adhered to. In the Amazing Spiderman so far, mostly the canon was adhered to. In Captain America and in Thor, so far the canon has been adhered to. And in Avengers, generally the canon has been adhered to. I guess this is why I feel these movies and that universe is better than what we have been given for the X-Men.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:50 AM   #25
marvelrobbins
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Posts: 10,608
Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

You got blinders on.Plenty of other comic book franchises depart from cannon

Iron Man-Pepper potts,while a love intrest for tony stark at one time,Is not the love of Stark's life.She marries happy hogan.She isn't running Stark Industries.
James Rhodes left military and became shark's persoanl pilot.He was never
a Colonel.Stane has no business ties with stark prior to him becoming Iron Man.
Whitlash will cross between whiplash,Crimson dynama,and tanturm man.Black widow was russian femme fatale not an agent of shield.Let's not get Into the
mandarian
Hulk-origin different.No Bomb.No rick jones.Ross was more intrested In killing hulk In comics.Betty ross was no scienties.Leonard sampson was not involved with
Betty.Sam sterns was a worker and not a scientist
Thor-Thor's mother was goddess of earth.Loki's come from giants not frost giants.Heindale wasn't black.Hogan wasn't asian.jane foster was nurse not a
scientist.Loki was villain long before thor was vanished to earth.Asgard was more another dimension than alien world
Captain America-Steve rogers was recruited not by Erskrane but phillips who was a general not a colonel.Bucky was younger sidekick he met after becoming cap.Peggy carter was member of french resitance not a UK Major.
Cap was made leader of howling commands.That was Nick fury In Comics.
Howard stark wasn't a major role In Captain America's life.The red skull wore mask during world war II.He was top nazi agent and not leader of hydra
Amazing Spider-man-Peter parker never met Gwne stacy till collage.She never
learned his secret.Ben parker was killed by burgler not by runaway robber outside store
Dark Knight trilogy-Henri Duracd as real ra's al ghul,the comic ra's al ghul stand In for ducard,Joker responable for two-face,Talia as outright villain and not a true love of bruce wayne.Lucious fox being In know of batman's secret

I have given tons of other departures from comic lore.And there Is never going to be a perfect version of classic X-Men on screen.

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