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Old 05-31-2014, 12:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: Official Spider-Man 1 Thread

You have never heard of marrying a guy on the rebound? It is quite common in our society, people.

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Old 05-31-2014, 12:18 PM   #52
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That doesn't change that I fell they seem absolutely miserable any time they are on screen together. I get they are in a rough place. I know the situation calls for some awkwardness... but the dialogue is written in such a way, the actors perform together in such a way as to make every single interaction they have absolutely joyless. They have no spark what so ever. The entire love angle of the film is so forced it makes MJ out to be the worst person ever. The entire thing with John is cliche and underdeveloped.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't seen the movie is a while, but Peter doesn't know she's seeing anybody until the bombshell is dropped she just got engaged. What? How? When? How long has she been seeing this guy? Why didn't she tell Peter? You know, the guy she's been playing emotional ping-pong with forever?
Not to mention how she treats John....She's just an unlikable person through and through. She literally runs off the alter, smiling, while everybody is left there saying "WTF!!!!" It's played for the cute, "awwww yaa they're gonna be together" factor but just comes off as horribly cruel.

No need to apologize, I know the film is considered a gem, but I just never understood where the brilliance is. :/
They seem joyless together for most of the movie because they ARE joyless! It is supposed to come off that way because she is marrying John on the rebound because Pete rejected her in the 1st movie. There is a 2 year gap between SM1 and SM2. While they don't say they have been dating for a while, MJ and Peter obviously don't interact much. Thety easily could have been dating well over a year. Did you expect MJ to not move on with her life in a 2 year gap? A lot can happen in 2 years. I don't see how this feels forced. Honestly, it feels like a natural progression to me.

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Old 05-31-2014, 01:30 PM   #53
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You have never heard of marrying a guy on the rebound? It is quite common in our society, people.
It makes sense for movie MJ, but not a commitmentphobe like her comic book counterpart. People often say Raimi infused her with Gwen's personality, but I've always seen more Betty-like traits. I like movie MJ and love comic book MJ, but I've never been able to accept they are the same character.

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Old 05-31-2014, 01:34 PM   #54
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It makes sense for movie MJ, but not a commitmentphobe like her comic book counterpart. People often say Raimi infused her with Gwen's personality, but I've always seen more Betty-like traits. I like movie MJ and love comic book MJ, but I've never been able to accept they are the same character.
I'd agree with that. Movie MJ is very different from comic MJ, but that doesn't mean movie MJ's actions don't make sense or anything, like Gremlin has suggested.

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Old 05-31-2014, 07:28 PM   #55
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They seem joyless together for most of the movie because they ARE joyless! It is supposed to come off that way because she is marrying John on the rebound because Pete rejected her in the 1st movie. There is a 2 year gap between SM1 and SM2. While they don't say they have been dating for a while, MJ and Peter obviously don't interact much. Thety easily could have been dating well over a year. Did you expect MJ to not move on with her life in a 2 year gap? A lot can happen in 2 years. I don't see how this feels forced. Honestly, it feels like a natural progression to me.
You're not understanding what I'm saying: The way the two actors were together, the dialogue between them and everything else was just poorly handled. I didn't care at all if they ended up together because the drama of the situation isn't well written enough for me to care. It was forced and awkward in a bad way, not in a way that felt natural to the plot.

And how is the rebound argument supposed to be any better? That just makes it seem worse. The two year gap-worse still because the movie doesn't spend one second of screentime setting up her relationship with John UNTIL we find out she's engaged to him. Because of this, it felt like she did it to spite Peter. I'm not saying she really did do it to spite Peter, but the way it's handled in the film makes it come off that way.

I don't care how strained the relationship is supposed to be, the audience should feel a connect between to the two, should want them to end up together. I just wanted them both to shut the hell up and get over it so the film could start in proper.

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Old 05-31-2014, 09:00 PM   #56
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I am aware that Spider-Man 2 adapts Spider-Man No More. I am also aware of your blogspot, an interesting read, you've shared it before several times. While I agree that he is closer to the comics than most people realise there was still several changes, making him more sympathetic than the "Master Planner". While I felt these changes were not needed to fit SM2's story he was brilliant so I have no gripes with him

Thing is, Peter in this film is exactly the same as what he was in high school. I wanted to see the character grow more confident and witty, while he's still a nice, smart guy he felt too much like George Mcfly than Peter Parker.

Spider-Man moves and swings great. The responsibility of the character is explored well and I loved seeing that. Something equally important is the quips. "Heres your change" and "I have an act for that". Not really getting that iconic, wise ass personality. It's like a Superman who isn't this boy scout. It takes 0.5 off my rating certainly. I don't see how Spidey 2 can be definative if the hero's personality (the title character, Spider-Man) is not really there.

Mary Jane. Wants to get with Peter but goes with John. Ok, why does she want Spidey also (she pretends John is Spidey while kissing him)? She just felt too winey in the film, look at the scene where she holds his face and says "your such a mystery". It felt lukeworm and forced IMO. Leaving John at the alter was just kinda sad IMO.

Just an opinion.
I think somewhere Raimi acknowledged this in some sort of video or featurette. The wise-cracking Spidey really does take away from the drama and intensity of the situation. It works better in the comics and cartoons, but on film, it doesn't quite work as well when an actual, physical human being is in harm's way. It just comes off as " Huh? Why's he joking when police cars are getting crashed into?" Sure, it's his personality, but it's one of those things that I don't feel is adapted well onto film.

I don't think the train sequence would have been nearly as intense if jokes were being said throughout.

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Old 05-31-2014, 09:30 PM   #57
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I think somewhere Raimi acknowledged this in some sort of video or featurette. The wise-cracking Spidey really does take away from the drama and intensity of the situation. It works better in the comics and cartoons, but on film, it doesn't quite work as well when an actual, physical human being is in harm's way. It just comes off as " Huh? Why's he joking when police cars are getting crashed into?" Sure, it's his personality, but it's one of those things that I don't feel is adapted well onto film.

I don't think the train sequence would have been nearly as intense if jokes were being said throughout.
This.

I was like during the opening of ASM 2 when he's hanging on to the front of a truck talking on his phone while a crazy man is road raging and putting so many lives in danger.

Raimi didn't use Spidey's humor as much as in the new ones. But when he did it, he did it well and much better than in Webb versions.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:20 PM   #58
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This.

I was like during the opening of ASM 2 when he's hanging on to the front of a truck talking on his phone while a crazy man is road raging and putting so many lives in danger.

Raimi didn't use Spidey's humor as much as in the new ones. But when he did it, he did it well and much better than in Webb versions.
On the contrary, if felt like it was being said by a character completely different than the one in the film. It was off, out of nowhere, and misplaced.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:38 PM   #59
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You're not understanding what I'm saying: The way the two actors were together, the dialogue between them and everything else was just poorly handled. I didn't care at all if they ended up together because the drama of the situation isn't well written enough for me to care. It was forced and awkward in a bad way, not in a way that felt natural to the plot.

And how is the rebound argument supposed to be any better? That just makes it seem worse. The two year gap-worse still because the movie doesn't spend one second of screentime setting up her relationship with John UNTIL we find out she's engaged to him. Because of this, it felt like she did it to spite Peter. I'm not saying she really did do it to spite Peter, but the way it's handled in the film makes it come off that way.

I don't care how strained the relationship is supposed to be, the audience should feel a connect between to the two, should want them to end up together. I just wanted them both to shut the hell up and get over it so the film could start in proper.
In the days of pre-facebook, would you honestly go out of your way to set-up a conversation tell your ex-girlfriend you have barely spoken to in over a year just to tell her you're getting married? Today is different with social media. Easier to find out. But back before all that was popular, I know I wouldn't have. Why do you owe that to them? You don't. Neither does MJ.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:50 PM   #60
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In the days of pre-facebook, would you honestly go out of your way to set-up a conversation tell your ex-girlfriend you have barely spoken to in over a year just to tell her you're getting married? Today is different with social media. Easier to find out. But back before all that was popular, I know I wouldn't have. Why do you owe that to them? You don't. Neither does MJ.
That has nothing to do with anything. Why even bring that up? None of that has any real application to what is shown in the film.

And yes, considering MJ is hurt enough to call Peter out on not seeing her play and comes to his birthday party...I would assume she would at least MENTION seeing another guy. Especially a guy she is going to say yes to getting hitched with. She calls Peter her best friend AS she's calling him out for not seeing her play. None of this is really indicative of people who have "barely spoken" in over a year. If they are so distant from each other...why even be so upset in the first place?

Look, we obviously aren't going to agree. I simply do not think any part of the relationship in that film was written, developed or acted well. You do. We are going in circles.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:57 PM   #61
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This.

I was like during the opening of ASM 2 when he's hanging on to the front of a truck talking on his phone while a crazy man is road raging and putting so many lives in danger.

Raimi didn't use Spidey's humor as much as in the new ones. But when he did it, he did it well and much better than in Webb versions.
It was definitely done during more appropriate situations

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Old 06-01-2014, 06:51 AM   #62
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I think somewhere Raimi acknowledged this in some sort of video or featurette. The wise-cracking Spidey really does take away from the drama and intensity of the situation. It works better in the comics and cartoons, but on film, it doesn't quite work as well when an actual, physical human being is in harm's way. It just comes off as " Huh? Why's he joking when police cars are getting crashed into?" Sure, it's his personality, but it's one of those things that I don't feel is adapted well onto film.

I don't think the train sequence would have been nearly as intense if jokes were being said throughout.
How is joking around when lives are in danger different on a drawing than in motion picture?

It isn't
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This.

I was like during the opening of ASM 2 when he's hanging on to the front of a truck talking on his phone while a crazy man is road raging and putting so many lives in danger.

Raimi didn't use Spidey's humor as much as in the new ones. But when he did it, he did it well and much better than in Webb versions.
Not it's not. Joking is a tactic used to manipulate his foes. Wasn't joking in grim serious moments (clocktower) just like in the comics. He was joking when Gobby attacked people in SM1?

Once again another fanboy trying to bend logic to trash the new kid on the block . If you facepalmed during that scene you must have facepalmed at every occasion in every adaption, including Raimi's Spidey when quips were made.

It's funny how fanboys and haters try to trash the other series because it somehow
justifys something weak in another version.

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Old 06-01-2014, 11:22 AM   #63
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^I think just inherently people understand the stakes of a life in danger when it is a physical, real body than an exaggerated, illustrated comic image.

It's more about using the character's wise-cracking personality sparingly. He's just arguing that it was too excessive in Webb's version. All valid reasons.

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Old 06-01-2014, 05:52 PM   #64
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^I think just inherently people understand the stakes of a life in danger when it is a physical, real body than an exaggerated, illustrated comic image.

It's more about using the character's wise-cracking personality sparingly. He's just arguing that it was too excessive in Webb's version. All valid reasons.
Thank you

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Old 06-14-2014, 10:18 PM   #65
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I love SM1, but SM2 is a much better movie. The film does a great job expressing its themes and it is one of the few films that shows why being Spider-Man is hard. The dialogue is not forced at all, and the distance between MJ and Peter makes sense given how SM1 ended and that MJ is considering on marrying someone else. It is awkward. Are you going to tell me this WOULDN'T be awkward for you in real life? It feels very natural to me. I love Molina's Ock. One of the best CBM villains ever.

Sorry, I just don't agree with you. At all.
Agree wholeheartedly. Not to mention how well Franco played Harry and his natural gravitation toward madness through his hatred for Spider-man. The way Tobey's Peter responded to that felt very natural as well (the slapping scene comes to mind).

(Unfortunate how it all went down the drain in SM3).

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Old 06-15-2014, 06:40 PM   #66
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Default Re: Official Spider-Man 1 Thread

I'm watching this movie now, up to the fun school fight
It's weird that I felt 'meh' about it on second view, it's still a fun movie
Kirsten's MJ reminds me of actresses from 70s movies

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Old 06-16-2014, 10:37 AM   #67
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