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Old 10-15-2013, 12:55 AM   #301
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

Honestly, I took ALL the reactions to MOS, negative and positive as a measure of how much love and goodwill the character still has in the hearts and minds of the general public. That I also ADORED the film was almost gravy.

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Old 10-15-2013, 12:59 AM   #302
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

I loved BOTH films. I just get annoyed when some people put one down to praise the other, and vice versa.

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Old 10-15-2013, 01:02 AM   #303
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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Honestly, I took ALL the reactions to MOS, negative and positive as a measure of how much love and goodwill the character still has in the hearts and minds of the general public. That I also ADORED the film was almost gravy.
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I loved BOTH films. I just get annoyed when some people put one down to praise the other, and vice versa.
Agreed on both points.

I mean I have issues with both films, but I still enjoy them as well and recognize the good stuff that the films have achieved as well.

Plus, I wonder how people can even compare to the two films given that "The Avenges" is an ensemble piece where several heroes come together, whereas "MOS" is an origins film where it modernizes Superman's upbringing for today's audiences.

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Old 10-15-2013, 01:33 AM   #304
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

On another note, does anyone else feel that Snyder should use more of his own trademark style for this next film or if he should continue to use the JJ Abrams' like techniques (Lens Flares, Fast Zoom Ins) that he had used in MOS for this film?

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Old 10-15-2013, 07:23 AM   #305
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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Ill take MOS over Avengers. But I understand that Avengers gets to the point quicker and has a lot of fun for fans. With MOS you don't get to see Clark until about 20 minutes into the movie. And it's bearded Clark on a fishing boat. Then of course a chunk of time is spent on the childhood flashbacks where a different child actor plays him then even for the teenage years with Pa Kent are spent with yet ANOTHER actor who isn't Henry.

I love all that stuff but I can see why some people would rather get lost in Avengers where the known actors in their roles are right in front of their faces and the whole movie is straightforward.
I disagree with your comment that child Clark delayed the "good parts" of the film, in large part because they were the good parts of the movie. For many viewers, and several reviewers and I did read a lot of reviews of MoS, the scenes involving ma and pa kent were the best scenes in the movie. The studio recognised it as well as this is what they chose to include in the previews. Personally, I thought that Diane Lane was the most compelling actress or actor in the movie, and I know a lot of other people thought so too. What warmth there was in the movie came from Martha's love.

This is an origin story, and Clark is unique among the major superheroes in that his canonical story is very, very, heavily dependent on his adoptive parents. They're a big deal in the 1986-2010 comics continuity (I don't know about the other continuities), they were a big deal on Smallville, and a big deal on Lois and Clark, and a big deal in the Donnerverse. It's not like Green Lantern, or Captain America, where the parents and the childhood don't get a prominent role in the story, it's expected for Superman.

Whereas Batman is arguably defined by the struggle to deal with watching his parents get murdered, Superman is partly defined by the fact he was raised in a loving home. Clark Kent becomes Superman because his parents didn't get murdered. I argue it's important to show this.

But they didn't show much of this. We got maybe 10 minutes combined of screen time for Ma and Pa Kent. We instead got 30-40 minutes of Crowe-El being the ultimate cliché and one of the least compelling and least interesting characters I've ever seen in a comic book movie, and 45 minutes of endless CGI action including a fight with the giant metal squid in the Indian Ocean, and precious little of ma and pa kent.

The scenes of Clark growing up did not delay the better part of the movie. They were the better part of the movie. I personally think they were tied with the early Lois scenes, but critics overall raved uniquely specified the scenes with ma and pa kent as the best part of the movie, so I'm outnumbered and overruled. A better MoS would not have had less of childhood Clark, it would have had more, at the expense of the weak science fiction of Krypton, the fight with the giant metal squid, and possibly the Zod fight. There would have been more character development this way... we are after all talking about a beloved character, so why not show the character? Add some scenes with Martha, maybe add a friendship scene with Pete Ross or Lana Lang, or, if it were up to, maybe add some small talk with Lois Lane or Clark working at the Smallville Ledger.

A good writer doesn't need the tension of endless action sequences to emotionally connect the viewers. Go watch the movies Rush or Gravity, in theatres now, to see what spectacular character work looks like.


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Old 10-15-2013, 07:38 AM   #306
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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TDKR, TDk (a little by purist of the joker comic book looking) , X2 many of them were against many aspects that Singer took away... Spiderman 1 the power ranger goblin, Spiderman 2 middle transition pretty weak and tedious, Avengers puny threat and too much comedy, Iron Man 1 final battle weak.. many fans and non-fans were against some points..
I REMEMBER THE BATMAN BEGINS.. IS not like Tim burton's bats, reboot?, the change between Duncan- Ras... and when TDK came many people saw the real point of all what BB build.. MOS is gonna have the same treatment when future movies come...
the point is NOT ALL THE PEOPLE IS GONNA LIKE ONE MOVIE....
Not everybody likes every movie, but overall X2, First Class, Batman trilogy, Spider Man 1 and 2 were all better-liked by their fans than MoS. They also have better ratings. Spider Man and Batman also have more fans.

Aside from that, I know rabid Twilight fans, rabid Harry Potter fans, rabid Lord of the Rings fans, and rabid Hunger Games fans, and I ask those fans how their fandoms reacted to those movies, and they all tell me that the reaction was generally positive. Harry Potter and Twilight are both comparably or more popular than Superman. I know that some small number of HP fans were unhappy, but overall the verdict is clear: the fandom largely loved the movies.

So it's not true that fans always complain, it's a totally fictional butthurt. It's true that there will always be a small fraction of fans that complain, but it's not necessarily a large fraction. At one extreme you have movies like MoS, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Star Trek into Darkness, where most of the fans complain. At the other end, you have adaptations that are both good and true to the source material, and in those cases fans are happy. Most fans of Twilight, Batman, or Harry Potter are happy with the adaptations made.

Make a good movie, be faithful to the source material, and the fans will love you.


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That's because people never saw Spider-Man before or Sin City or Iron Man. The amount of people is irrelevant, it's just the fact that a lot of these people are around. We're all guilty of it sometimes. When I mention Batman vs Superman as an example or MOS, it's because these are two characters that have been around for a long time. There's MULTIPLE movies about them. Times when we're stuck with utter campy **** with both Batman and Superman, and during those times we put our geeky hands together and pray for a Batman that's darker or taken more seriously with better actors, directors, costumes. Praying for a Superman that kicks major ass that has scenes where he's struggling as an alien while living in a world full of unrelatable humans. Even people who just a year ago were losing their minds about not wanting a Justice League, nope, they wanted Batman/Superman. When they get MOS or BvS theyre still not happy even though it's not as if it's going to be done like Superman Returns or Batman & Robin or Green Lantern.

People hear that it might be SLIGHTLY based on Frank Miller's DKReturns, and guess what? It's nothing but "screw Frank Miller that's gonna suck!". Imagine if in the late 90s to early 2000s if fans were told about something influenced by Frank Miller compared to what **** they just had to endure with both characters?? They would cry in happiness. Just like I said.

It's called people being ungrateful.
Ungrateful? Are fans supposed to be happy with any movie made? LoL, no.

If the fans get a good Superman movie, they get a good Superman movie. If the studio makes a good Superman movie, they get billions of dollars, both in direct profits (the movie) and indirect profits from sustaining the franchise long-term.


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Old 10-15-2013, 07:40 AM   #307
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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On another note, does anyone else feel that Snyder should use more of his own trademark style for this next film or if he should continue to use the JJ Abrams' like techniques (Lens Flares, Fast Zoom Ins) that he had used in MOS for this film?
I suspect we won't get the handheld style again. However the lens flares and zooms seem to be standard fare with Summer films these days (whether they will be in 2015 though) so I can see Snyder still using them.

I think we'll see a sort of fusion of the look of MOS with more measured and aligned camera angles (no shakiness on talking heads). I can't see Snyder going back the more sterile sound-stagey aesthetic of Sucker-Punch/300. He definitely developed a better look for MOS.

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Old 10-15-2013, 07:41 AM   #308
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

I wouldn't say that MOS had most of Superman's fans complaining....I'd say that dividing it down the middle is a more accurate statement since for ever comment that I've seen of people saying that they didn't like, I've seen almost as much for people who said that they did like it.

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Old 10-15-2013, 07:42 AM   #309
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I suspect we won't get the handheld style again. However the lens flares and zooms seem to be standard fare with Summer films these days (whether they will be in 2015 though) so I can see Snyder still using them.

I think we'll see a sort of fusion of the look of MOS with more measured and aligned camera angles (no shakiness on talking heads). I can't see Snyder going back the more sterile sound-stagey aesthetic of Sucker Punch/300. He definitely developed a better look for MOS.
I just hope that they have WETA or even ILM handling MOST of the effects of the film as opposed to relying on Double Negative since I wasn't the biggest fan of some of the effects for the latter half of MOS.

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Old 10-15-2013, 08:19 AM   #310
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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I wouldn't say that MOS had most of Superman's fans complaining....I'd say that dividing it down the middle is a more accurate statement since for ever comment that I've seen of people saying that they didn't like, I've seen almost as much for people who said that they did like it.
Yeah thats how ive interpreted it. I'm in both camps, at the same time.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:13 AM   #311
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Zack Synder/ Bruce Timm Superman 75 Year Anniversary short:
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/10/1...ort-exclusive/

Pretty darn cool. Kinda wish they would have incorporated Dean Cain and Brandon Routh's Superman and couple other comic moments (like the wedding) though.
That was pretty cool.

I'm surprised they didn't reference Lois & Clark given its popularity.

The Smallville and Kingdom Come bit was weird. Would've been awesome if they actually made a fully animated Kingdom Come segment rather than it looking like a motion comic.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:32 AM   #312
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

Filming this Saturday @ East Los Angeles College Weingart stadium: http://elaccampusnews.com/2013/10/09...nto-the-field/

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #313
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

Well, that's early.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #314
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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That was pretty cool.

I'm surprised they didn't reference Lois & Clark given its popularity.

The Smallville and Kingdom Come bit was weird. Would've been awesome if they actually made a fully animated Kingdom Come segment rather than it looking like a motion comic.
They'd probably have to use CGI

But what I like about the short is that you can tell when it's representing someone live action (such as Reeve) by the change in lighting/shading.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #315
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Filming this Saturday @ East Los Angeles College Weingart stadium: http://elaccampusnews.com/2013/10/09...nto-the-field/
Whoa what. Is that confirmed?

I guess they're taking advantage of the football season. But why retread TDKR ground?

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:46 AM   #316
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Filming this Saturday @ East Los Angeles College Weingart stadium: http://elaccampusnews.com/2013/10/09...nto-the-field/
That doesn't seem to make sense, unless it's a scene involving just extras since we would have heard A LOT more official casting announcements and be given an actual title before principal photography commenced for this.

Not to mention that I can't see on how Snyder would be available to start filming this since that would mean that he would have had to have done pre productions with story boards and character designs during when he was during press for MOS and he's currently serving as producer for the 300 Sequel as well.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:47 AM   #317
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

Who's to say he wasn't doing story boards and character designs back then? MOS had been mostly done for a while. Plus, he might not even be that involved with the 300 sequel.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:49 AM   #318
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

I think a better question is... Why Gotham University in a story where Batman is older?

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:49 AM   #319
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Who's to say he wasn't doing story boards and character designs back then? MOS had been mostly done for a while.
That is true; I mean this was originally slated to have been released in Winter 2012.

Still, it kind of worries me that they would rush into filming so soon since I'd feel more comfortable if they gave as much time as they could to the story and making it the best that they possibly could.

And yeah, even with all of that aside, we should have gotten an official title and other major casting announcements before filming began.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:49 AM   #320
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Love your signature, Lencho. However it is difficult to be done. They tried to do it in S4 and it was a disaster.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:53 AM   #321
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That is true; I mean this was originally slated to have been released in Winter 2012.

Still, it kind of worries me that they would rush into filming so soon since I'd feel more comfortable if they gave as much time as they could to the story and making it the best that they possibly could.

And yeah, even with all of that aside, we should have gotten an official title and other major casting announcements before filming began.
Rush?
FF7 will be out in 2014, you know.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #322
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They'd probably have to use CGI

But what I like about the short is that you can tell when it's representing someone live action (such as Reeve) by the change in lighting/shading.
I doubt WB would be willing to give that much money to make that happen.

I'm kinda surprised at all the Lois Lane comments in the EW article.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #323
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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I think a better question is... Why Gotham University in a story where Batman is older?
Because it's part of the story? Remember in TDKR when they showed a "Gotham Rogues" football game? Yeah, Bruce wasn't on the team. It was part of the story arc. smh

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #324
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Rush?
FF7 will be out in 2014, you know.
That's another decision that I wasn't a fan of hearing as well. Because of Universal wanting to rush that film out, they lost both the original director and Dwayne Johnson.

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Old 10-15-2013, 10:00 AM   #325
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3

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That is true; I mean this was originally slated to have been released in Winter 2012.

Still, it kind of worries me that they would rush into filming so soon since I'd feel more comfortable if they gave as much time as they could to the story and making it the best that they possibly could.

And yeah, even with all of that aside, we should have gotten an official title and other major casting announcements before filming began.
I bet this is one of those scenes that they have known that they were going to do for a while. I mean, they have had a story in mind for a while now. Besides, it's not like the main cast is going to be there. It's going to be centered around the game that's going on and the crowd will be involved. Granted, it does say that "actors" will be filmed, but I can almost guarantee you that it's small, side characters. Also, remember a few weeks ago Goyer said that they were further along than what people realized? It's going to be OK, I promise!

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