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Old 10-17-2013, 07:28 PM   #76
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

Because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen

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Old 10-17-2013, 07:35 PM   #77
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
Goyer had 143 minutes to show what he considered the most important events of Clark's life. Education and journalistic skills were not among them.
So...

You've only seen him in school when he was 9. Does he only have a 4th/5th grade education?

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Old 10-17-2013, 07:53 PM   #78
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So...

You've only seen him in school when he was 9. Does he only have a 4th/5th grade education?
It means that whatever else could have happened was deemed unimportant to understanding the character. They filmed the movie to feel like a documentary after all.

We can try and infer - the movie does tell us that Clark grew up as a typical american, several times I think. So from that it is logical to infer that he gas a high school but not a college education. That is the null hypothesis based on what is shown in the movie.

Journalism is normally a defining trait of Supermans identity. Have you read Birthright?

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Old 10-17-2013, 07:54 PM   #79
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let's just face it - Goyer left too many plot holes in this movie. it feels like an episode of a television series where more will be revealed next week - he left us wanting more, but not in a good way.. more of a 'scratching head' kinda way.

In the real world, facial recognition would locate clark within days. The FBI will be all over it. Narrow down males in early thirties to smallville, then track each one, interview them on terms of 'terrorism' - when superman gave himself up, he was in a room, you telling me not a single photo was taken of him? No army in the world meets an alien and doesn't get some evidence. Lois can track him, so can the government.

This is the only way i can think of a way to protect his identity - Batman.

Bruce is in the cave, the UFO sightings appear - Zod speaks. Lois is linked - Bruce digs up all the information from the article lois had published on the website - he then hacks into government files - finds passport information, narrows it down to a few men.

Hacks government files, there is an image of Superman on file, using the device they use, for facial recognition, he realises it's clark. He then puts in a program to delete all the superman footage, he then changes the dimension results for clarks face on record, so that the hardware cannot trace/link the two together - simply put, the programme will be looking for an E fit, or desciption that has been altered and therefor will never find a link.

Then, Batman can put the fear into Clark.. that's how he gets him

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Old 10-17-2013, 07:55 PM   #80
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
It means that whatever else could have happened was deemed unimportant to understanding the character. They filmed the movie to feel like a documentary after all.

We can try and infer - the movie does tell us that Clark grew up as a typical american, several times I think. So from that it is logical to infer that he gas a high school but not a college education. That is the null hypothesis based on what is shown in the movie.

Journalism is normally a defining trait of Supermans identity. Have you read Birthright?
Yep.

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Old 10-17-2013, 08:25 PM   #81
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let's just face it - Goyer left too many plot holes in this movie. it feels like an episode of a television series where more will be revealed next week - he left us wanting more, but not in a good way.. more of a 'scratching head' kinda way.

In the real world, facial recognition would locate clark within days. The FBI will be all over it. Narrow down males in early thirties to smallville, then track each one, interview them on terms of 'terrorism' - when superman gave himself up, he was in a room, you telling me not a single photo was taken of him? No army in the world meets an alien and doesn't get some evidence. Lois can track him, so can the government.

This is the only way i can think of a way to protect his identity - Batman.

Bruce is in the cave, the UFO sightings appear - Zod speaks. Lois is linked - Bruce digs up all the information from the article lois had published on the website - he then hacks into government files - finds passport information, narrows it down to a few men.

Hacks government files, there is an image of Superman on file, using the device they use, for facial recognition, he realises it's clark. He then puts in a program to delete all the superman footage, he then changes the dimension results for clarks face on record, so that the hardware cannot trace/link the two together - simply put, the programme will be looking for an E fit, or desciption that has been altered and therefor will never find a link.

Then, Batman can put the fear into Clark.. that's how he gets him
How do you know that that won't become a factor in the future? The answer is, you don't. Maybe certain elements in the gov't/military HAVE figured it out.

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Old 10-17-2013, 09:02 PM   #82
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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let's just face it - Goyer left too many plot holes in this movie. it feels like an episode of a television series where more will be revealed next week - he left us wanting more, but not in a good way.. more of a 'scratching head' kinda way.

In the real world, facial recognition would locate clark within days. The FBI will be all over it. Narrow down males in early thirties to smallville, then track each one, interview them on terms of 'terrorism' - when superman gave himself up, he was in a room, you telling me not a single photo was taken of him? No army in the world meets an alien and doesn't get some evidence. Lois can track him, so can the government.

Facial recognition only works on people already in a database. It's not this super awesome system the movies make it out to be. Look at the situation with the Boston Bombing. They had pictures of the guy and still needed the public's help. Yes the government is trying to find out who he is but then what? It reminds me of that scene in TDK when the guy finds out Batman is Bruce. Why piss off a guy who you have no way of controlling and seems to be here to help?

This is the only way i can think of a way to protect his identity - Batman.

Why not use Lois to help? She figured out who is was and could help to cover the tracks.

Then, Batman can put the fear into Clark.. that's how he gets him
I think the government is going to treat Superman like surfers treats a great white....leave him the hell alone. It's in the speech he gives the general at the end of the movie...."I'm here to help but on my terms."

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Last edited by roach; 10-17-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:06 PM   #83
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

Is TAS counted in this debate? I remember a few episodes in that series where Superman's intelligence was showcased. I don't think in MOS his intelligence was dwindled it just wasn't highlighted. Atleast he wasn't like the BDA in the Smallville series.

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Old 10-17-2013, 09:16 PM   #84
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What does BDA stand for?

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Old 10-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #85
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I think the government is going to treat Superman like surfers treats a great white....leave him the hell alone. It's in the speech he gives the general at the end of the movie...."I'm here to help but on my terms."
This is a great white that could break the world in two though. I think the US government will keep their distance while quietly keeping tabs, if we're talking realistically. Can't say the same for other international agencies.


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Old 10-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #86
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How do you know that that won't become a factor in the future? The answer is, you don't. Maybe certain elements in the gov't/military HAVE figured it out.
i don't know, but that's kind of the point.. we don't know enough which we all want answers too, c'est la vie

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Old 10-17-2013, 10:04 PM   #87
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i don't know, but that's kind of the point.. we don't know enough which we all want answers too, c'est la vie
this is not a bad thing

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Old 10-17-2013, 10:41 PM   #88
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I would imagine that there are at least a few people at the Pentagon, or on Capitol Hill, who came to work the day after Zod's attack and said "priority #1, design/build some weapons that can hurt/kill Kryptonians." In fact, that's a possible way to introduce Lex. Maybe he's working with elements within the government/military to design anti-metahuman weaponry.

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Old 10-17-2013, 11:27 PM   #89
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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This is a great white that could break the world in two though. I think the US government will keep their distance while quietly keeping tabs, if we're talking realistically. Can't say the same for other international agencies.
The reason that the government cannot leave Superman alone is that the creative team wants a "realistic" take on Superman. As such, it is essential that resources be marshalled tocontrolling or Superman.

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Old 10-17-2013, 11:51 PM   #90
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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I would imagine that there are at least a few people at the Pentagon, or on Capitol Hill, who came to work the day after Zod's attack and said "priority #1, design/build some weapons that can hurt/kill Kryptonians." In fact, that's a possible way to introduce Lex. Maybe he's working with elements within the government/military to design anti-metahuman weaponry.
that's very logical and that's a must!!!
he is an alien, a super powerful one!!! he is an obvious threat to the world!!!
the government must find a way to control him or to eliminate him!!!

i really wanna see Superman Vs the government / military!!!

again they could find out Martha is his mother, put her in hostage.

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Old 10-17-2013, 11:51 PM   #91
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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I would imagine that there are at least a few people at the Pentagon, or on Capitol Hill, who came to work the day after Zod's attack and said "priority #1, design/build some weapons that can hurt/kill Kryptonians." In fact, that's a possible way to introduce Lex. Maybe he's working with elements within the government/military to design anti-metahuman weaponry.
Yes. The government would be glad Superman has been a man of his word and co-operative. But these thoughts would always be at the back of their mind. What if.

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Old 10-18-2013, 12:04 AM   #92
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The reason that the government cannot leave Superman alone is that the creative team wants a "realistic" take on Superman. As such, it is essential that resources be marshalled tocontrolling or Superman.
Yeah, and everyone would want a piece of him, whether to befriend, control, subvert. He can fracture political and historical lines even further, or unite a world against him.

Can imagine a lot of folks would be descending upon the Indian Ocean to salvage the fallen tech from the world engine.

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Old 10-18-2013, 12:06 AM   #93
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I think there is one major obstacle that prevents Superman from being portrayed as smarter. There are essentially 2 things that evolve overtime - the protagonist and the mythos/world around the protagonist. In order for things to fit together well, both have to evolve consistently.

Let's take Batman for example. Batman evolved to be the world's greatest detective over the years. His mythos have also evolved but with that knowledge in mind. The world around Batman is specifically designed to have him solve cases and use his wits over and over again to get out of certain situations. His villains are also built around that idea and are meant to challenge him in that regard.

But with Superman, it's almost as if the Superman mythos evolved overtime without the idea of Superman being very intelligent being there. It's as if the world around Superman was built without taking into account his level of intelligence in the first place. The best example is the Superman/Lex Luthor dynamic and Superman/Batman dynamic. Essentially, one of the themes that has been present in those dynamics for years was the idea that the human mind is capable of keeping up with godlike power. That established theme didn't seem to take into account certain things such as, for example, Superman doing science just as advanced as Lex's (or more) in the Fortress of Solitude. Heck, a large part of the Batman/Superman dynamic is that Batman is the mind while Superman is the muscle. It's been that way since at least the 1980's. But when this dynamic was established, it wasn't with the intention of making Superman look inferior to Batman or to start a pissing war between the fans. The message was that these men were equal and completed each other. Whatever one could do, the other couldn't. And it just so happens that what Batman can do is seen as cooler than what Superman could do in today's age.

It really seems as if there isn't much room for Superman to show off his intelligence in Superman stories. It's not that writers don't know how. It's more that there aren't a lot of ways his intelligence can shine without breaking whatever fans consider to be the status quo of the Superman side of the DC universe. If you stay true to Superman's meant intelligence, people will complain that certain aspects of the Superman mythos have had major changes. If you keep the status quo intact, people will complain that Superman doesn't display his intelligence as often as he should.

That is essentially a problem even MOS had to juggle. It tried to modernize Superman and get rid of all the complaints people had over the years (he's too powerful, too nice, etc.) while still trying to keep as much of the things people identify as part of Superman there. And based on the polarizing reactions, it almost seems as if there is no way to do Superman without causing a major division in fans, both the casual and hardcore ones.
sad. i guess it has been established as fact that Bruce / Lex is smarter than Clark. and most fans can go with it. it would be an outcry if the reverse way happening.

i guess BVS can't run away from this "fact".

i want superman to know Bruce / Lex's resolution too. but he chooses to do it or don't do it because of his belief; not because he is outsmarted. can i have that?

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Old 10-18-2013, 12:09 AM   #94
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Yes. The government would be glad Superman has been a man of his word and co-operative. But these thoughts would always be at the back of their mind. What if.
I'd say not even the government as a whole. Probably only a handful comprising the likes of General Swanwick and those who have actually seen Superman up close and trust him as a result of his actions.

To most others in the upper echelons of power, what they see is probably a flying man with the ability to level a city singlehandedly. And that's not even counting the tech he's privy to.


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Old 10-18-2013, 02:39 AM   #95
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=-G4Y8JtT1...%3D-G4Y8JtT1j0
This is hilarious. Superman is outsmart by batman... again... in a foully manner. Lol

I think the general perception on BVS is that MOS isn't as popular and needs batman to help.

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Old 10-18-2013, 03:48 AM   #96
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It would be cool if Bruce has Zod's suit and modified it as the batsuit. It would be the only way a fabric suit would work in movie land

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Old 10-18-2013, 04:35 AM   #97
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It would be cool if Bruce has Zod's suit and modified it as the batsuit. It would be the only way a fabric suit would work in movie land
I liked this idea at first, but it would diminish the legacy of Batman a little? Rather than designing his own suit using his own resources, he's modifying an alien costume - kind of makes it look like he has a dependency on Krypton's people?

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Old 10-18-2013, 04:38 AM   #98
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=-G4Y8JtT1...%3D-G4Y8JtT1j0
This is hilarious. Superman is outsmart by batman... again... in a foully manner. Lol

I think the general perception on BVS is that MOS isn't as popular and needs batman to help.
Honestly, the fact that some people still say that Superman isn't cool enough after MOS was released bugs the crap out of me.

I mean if all of the action that we got with superman isn't considered "cool" by people, then nothing will make people think of the character as such.

And then there's the fact that people still find ways to bash the character for being "modernized" as he was in MOS, and not being the boy scout that they're more familiar with, which is ironic considering that they bashed him for that as well.

And some people conveniently forget that MOS made a crap load of MORE MONEY than Batman Begins did as well.

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Old 10-18-2013, 07:42 AM   #99
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Another question: do u think superman is too invincible in MOS? I mean he is scratch-free after a such brutal fight with G. Zod.

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Old 10-18-2013, 07:51 AM   #100
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Honestly, the fact that some people still say that Superman isn't cool enough after MOS was released bugs the crap out of me.

I mean if all of the action that we got with superman isn't considered "cool" by people, then nothing will make people think of the character as such.

And then there's the fact that people still find ways to bash the character for being "modernized" as he was in MOS, and not being the boy scout that they're more familiar with, which is ironic considering that they bashed him for that as well.

And some people conveniently forget that MOS made a crap load of MORE MONEY than Batman Begins did as well.
I don't know how much cooler is Superman considered to be after MoS, but I don't think it's important for his character to be considered cool. He's a great character when written great. And he's still pretty awesome when isn't.

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