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Old 10-18-2013, 07:53 AM   #101
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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Another question: do u think superman is too invincible in MOS? I mean he is scratch-free after a such brutal fight with G. Zod.
Not really, they made it clear that they could kill one another - breaking Zod's neck was a surprise for me at least in terms of wondering whether or not they could letally damage each other with physical blows, etc

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Old 10-18-2013, 02:47 PM   #102
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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In all his movies. No just MOS. That the disasters n threats can be resolved by pure muscle.

How about the comics?

Can we have examples of superman showing his brain?

And do we have some tastefully saving action in the comics that you would like to be put into the movie?
Did you miss the tutoring in the journey from Krypton and the years of education in FOS in S:TM.
Donner's Superman was also super-intelligent.

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Old 10-18-2013, 06:52 PM   #103
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

I thought faking the evil Kryptonians out with holograms in Superman:II was pretty smart myself

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Old 10-18-2013, 07:27 PM   #104
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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Honestly, the fact that some people still say that Superman isn't cool enough after MOS was released bugs the crap out of me.

I mean if all of the action that we got with superman isn't considered "cool" by people, then nothing will make people think of the character as such.

And then there's the fact that people still find ways to bash the character for being "modernized" as he was in MOS, and not being the boy scout that they're more familiar with, which is ironic considering that they bashed him for that as well.

And some people conveniently forget that MOS made a crap load of MORE MONEY than Batman Begins did as well.
The cool isn't defined by action only today. Perhaps shikamaru's post below explain better.

Originally Posted by*Shikamaru*
In all honesty though, that is a problem most DC characters have in general. They're often portrayed as just having average level intellect, even in stories where Batman isn't present and in continuities where Batman isn't even established to exist. Not that they don't have their fair share of moments where their brains far outshines their brawn, but they're not*consistently*written as intelligent like Batman is.I think the lack of more highly-intelligent characters is what hurts DC and why Marvel's characters seem to connect better with general audiences (there's a saying that for every overpowered DC character there is a genius in the Marvel universe). In today's modern society, strength and value is not measured by how much godlike power you have but by what your intellect brings to the table. People don't have as much interest in a guy with unlimited power if that guy is not portrayed as too smart in the first place. So they turn to characters like Batman, Spider-Man, and Iron Man instead - characters whose intelligence is consistently portrayed as their greatest weapon.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:38 AM   #105
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I thought faking the evil Kryptonians out with holograms in Superman:II was pretty smart myself
i thought it was kinda lame. it's like a gimmick and achieve nothing.
everything after the metropolis fight was kinda lame to me, except superman crushing zod's hand and lift him up.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:43 AM   #106
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Not really, they made it clear that they could kill one another - breaking Zod's neck was a surprise for me at least in terms of wondering whether or not they could letally damage each other with physical blows, etc
my issue is "scratch-free" after the brutal fight.
Do you think it will look more pressing and make the people care for superman more, if they were some kinda damages on them?

btw, a totally out of topic, are Loki and Thor indestructable / invincible on earth too? Hulk smashed Loki hundred times and he still looked perfect.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:50 AM   #107
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Did you miss the tutoring in the journey from Krypton and the years of education in FOS in S:TM.
Donner's Superman was also super-intelligent.
well, it didn't really show in the movies to me.

i would really like to see how superman apply his knowledge in the movie. and since he is an alien and has different level of intelligence, i would like to see his unique perception on things / events in the movie. i think it would be kinda cool.

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Old 10-21-2013, 12:33 PM   #108
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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my issue is "scratch-free" after the brutal fight.
Do you think it will look more pressing and make the people care for superman more, if they were some kinda damages on them?

btw, a totally out of topic, are Loki and Thor indestructable / invincible on earth too? Hulk smashed Loki hundred times and he still looked perfect.
Asgardians are extremely physically durable. Loki shrugs off machine gun bullets at the beginning of the film, he takes a direct blast from IM's repulsors TWICE and Coulson's Destroyer cannon that knocks him through a wall and is pretty much unharmed. At least with Hulk, he had some scratches/bruises and it took him like fifteen minutes to even be able to movie at all, and even then he was crawling along the ground.

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Old 10-28-2013, 04:39 AM   #109
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Asgardians are extremely physically durable. Loki shrugs off machine gun bullets at the beginning of the film, he takes a direct blast from IM's repulsors TWICE and Coulson's Destroyer cannon that knocks him through a wall and is pretty much unharmed. At least with Hulk, he had some scratches/bruises and it took him like fifteen minutes to even be able to movie at all, and even then he was crawling along the ground.
totally can't remember. i thought they could be killed by guns. silly me.

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Old 12-12-2013, 07:20 AM   #110
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

Hope to see clark resolve confrontation in a polite manner.

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Old 12-12-2013, 10:50 PM   #111
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hope to see lex luthor got his ass kicked and proper. i'm frustrated to see him to get away everytime without any physical suffering... it is just unfair.

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Old 12-12-2013, 11:06 PM   #112
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

this is what really infuriates me when it comes to Superman PLUS Batman....Batman is the brains, Superman is the brawn.

even the comics just pigeon-hole them to this. it ticks me off because im a fan of both and i know full well that Kal-el can match Bruce's IQ point for point (more even)

most people seem to miss this, but the intelligence isnt the factor here-- its what these guys do with their intelligence. we all know Clark has an old-school moral center, and thats whats keeping him from using his smarts to do the dastardly (which is why Lex Luthor is there). Bruce has a solid moral center (of course, he's a good guy), but he will not hesitate to think like the crooks and apply that treatment to them. which isnt always ethical. and thats where Clark and Bruce clashes very often.

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Old 12-12-2013, 11:07 PM   #113
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

forget it.

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Old 12-12-2013, 11:24 PM   #114
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

I think they should try to make Superman seem at least somewhat smart.

I don't think he was dumb in MOS. He was just inexperienced and thrown into an intense situation. But I'd like to see him learn from this and be more strategic in the next movie.

I don't really think he seemed smart in any previous movies either. When he flew right into Luthors Kryptonite island in SR...that seemed kinda dumb. And Donner's Superman lived in a 1970's cartoony universe in which all the people around him are made conveniently dumb so he looks superior.

I hope Superman uses some smarts in BvsS, as well as his brawn.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:13 AM   #115
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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I think they should try to make Superman seem at least somewhat smart.

I don't think he was dumb in MOS. He was just inexperienced and thrown into an intense situation. But I'd like to see him learn from this and be more strategic in the next movie.

I don't really think he seemed smart in any previous movies either. When he flew right into Luthors Kryptonite island in SR...that seemed kinda dumb. And Donner's Superman lived in a 1970's cartoony universe in which all the people around him are made conveniently dumb so he looks superior.

I hope Superman uses some smarts in BvsS, as well as his brawn.
Indeed... would love to see how superman resolve the classic dilemma; the villains r running away, the innocents r in danger in one place n lois is in danger in another place...
How he kill 3 birds in one stone...

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Old 12-15-2013, 09:00 AM   #116
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

That's why I love Batman. He's gained the peak of human physical condition PLUS he's got genius-level intelligence. He is muscle and he is brain (also: master martial artist, master detective, master escapologist and he's got access to high tech equipment)
Looks like an ideal machine for crime fighting, that's why there are so interesting villains in Batman's world.
I don't like when he meets other heroes from DC, 'cause they are mostly aliens from space, superhumans, sci-fi, magical whatever...


Let's see what Snyder is gonna show us on the big screen.

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Old 12-15-2013, 04:10 PM   #117
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bumped... so I can read it

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #118
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Default Re: mind vs muscle

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In MOS too, they did excellent job showing his muscle... however his mind part is again being ignored.
You know...this is one issue I'm...kind of undecided about. I don't know if I agree with him having super intelligence. I understand the reasoning behind it, but it's one of those "powers" that I think should be revised. It's like soul vision...

It doesn't make sense if he's the most intelligent person on the planet, not to mention the strongest, fastest and all that else, that anyone could or would ever defeat him. If writers and whatnot don't allow Supes to use these "powers" to his advantage then he comes off as stupid for not using them. That's why I'm of the opinion there are certain powers like super intelligence that should be reworked. Like instead of him being super intelligent, play up that he's a speed reader, or he has a great memory, and can quickly educate himself, but he shouldn't just know it all because he's Superman.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:47 PM   #119
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That's why I love Batman. He's gained the peak of human physical condition PLUS he's got genius-level intelligence. He is muscle and he is brain (also: master martial artist, master detective, master escapologist and he's got access to high tech equipment)
Looks like an ideal machine for crime fighting, that's why there are so interesting villains in Batman's world.
I don't like when he meets other heroes from DC, 'cause they are mostly aliens from space, superhumans, sci-fi, magical whatever...

Let's see what Snyder is gonna show us on the big screen.
I know it's comic book logic and all (because you can apply what I'm about to say to other Justice League members), but you would think that if Batman is an ideal crime-fighting machine, that Gotham's crime rate and penchant for corruption would plummet. Yet, that doesn't happen.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:38 PM   #120
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^ Technically, Gotham's crime rate in general has gotten down since Batman's debut. It's just the supervillain crime - a subsection of crime in general - that has increased.

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