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Old 10-19-2013, 03:34 PM   #76
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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I dont think that...
the second please.. with supes searching for survivors

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #77
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

They should definately retcon MOS so that he's looking around for survivors after the Zod attacks. A flashback would be appropriate, or Superman could have nightmares about the people he couldn't save.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #78
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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I'd rather Clark be suspicious from the start, and maybe tell someone he trusts (who LATER betrays him accidentally)

I think it would be deep if Bruce let his guard down because of his paranoia against Supes, while Clark built up some walls of suspicion because of his fear of being manipulated. I think even "normal" people can get out of character in extreme circumstances, and what can be more extreme than a vigilante and supervillain on the loose (and possibly one from Batman's rogues gallery)?
I like this, but I don't really have any ideas to add to it. I would really like to see Jor-El's "They will stumble, they will fall, but in time they will join you in the Sun" line to come back. In Man of Steel we just kind of see all of these humans join with Kal too easily, and some of those guys, like Dr. Hamilton and Colonel Hardy, and I'd say about 10 other soldiers that were on the C-17, are now basically sitting in the Phantom Zone. So, that could help facilitate some apprehension towards Superman (maybe even not that pronounced, as you said, someone accidentally betrays him) so he has to sort of relearn that lesson. Not that he's dumb and can't get it right the first time, but maybe he was just more concerned with doing the right thing than doing the thing right as far as 'coming out' in the first film that the lesson takes on multiple meanings. So in essence, we would maybe see Jor-El is a LOT wiser than he appears to be (which is still pretty wise, considering, it just adds a little more character to Jor-El, which could be useful in the sequels).



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Maybe not in this film, but possible future solo films should touch on the Codex in some way. It still nags me that the start of the film was Kal-El's actual birth. Thematically for a film series it kind of means we will see his death at some point.
I agree with this. Not sure if I would want it to be Bizarro, or Doomsday, honestly. I don't see HOW it could create Doomsday--I'm just not that familiar with that character--as opposed to Bizarro. But if you can put Doomsday / The Death of Superman / Superman Lives into this universe, a few movies down the line, it would be absolutely epic in terms of escalation of character, motive, emotion (after knowing all of these characters better), while also upping the ante for the directing and special effects after the Zod fight...

That's really the only thing that I'm worried about with the sequels. After the Zod fight and the $2 Trillion worth of damage in Man of Steel... how do you raise the stakes?

Quite simply, it doesn't need to be done... yet. The world needs to reel from that for a while, and that leaves us in a great place for the genius character study that Batman Vs. Superman has the potential to be. It doesn't have to be big budget popcorn destruction stuff. The next film can afford to be a bit more laid back action wise and a bit more cerebral... and I think the DCCU could benefit from that a bit.

Just my two pennies worth on that... just an opinion. No big.

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They should definately retcon MOS so that he's looking around for survivors after the Zod attacks. A flashback would be appropriate, or Superman could have nightmares about the people he couldn't save.
Oh, snap. They could totally do that, and it would be simple. It could be a flashback that ties into the main narrative the same way the flashbacks in MoS tied into that main narrative. You know, see a school bus, remember a school bus. It has lots of possible contextual applications for something that simple to be added in. Government Inquiry, Batman Interrogation, Nightmares, Perry White wants to put a spin on the story about the Aliens, etc.


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Old 10-19-2013, 08:57 PM   #79
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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They should definately retcon MOS so that he's looking around for survivors after the Zod attacks. A flashback would be appropriate, or Superman could have nightmares about the people he couldn't save.
They don't need to retcon anything. There's obviously a time skip between Superman killing Zod and the scene with the General. Who knows what Superman was doing during that time, he could very well have been searching for survivors.

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Old 10-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #80
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

I don't think that any screen time needs to be allocated to Superman reflecting on the deaths from Man of Steel. This movie should be treated as its own entity. I don't understand the process behind using this movie to correct something that a minority group takes issue with. These aren't common discussions with the general audience.

If the sequel to Man of Steel spends time on a retcon and it doesn't please the general audience, we lose part of this movie for nothing.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I'm honestly interested. For those who have issues with the deaths in Man of Steel, would a reflection sequence of Kal in this movie change your mind about the events of Man of Steel?

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Old 10-19-2013, 09:53 PM   #81
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^ Yeah. Heck, a headline "Vengeful Alien looks for more bodies" like that could be all to suffice. This implies public mistrust, but also that Superman DID try to rescue people after stopping Zod. I really think this should happen. That would only take several seconds to a minute to show, and would show that Superman cared enough about the damage to try and help people out.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:00 PM   #82
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

I wasn't thinking like, the first few minutes of the next movie just rewriting the last ten of MoS. Not much at all would have to happen. Just something there to let us know that it wasn't just... neck snap... scream....okay, here we go....lalalala.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:04 PM   #83
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Show Clark staring off to space, daydreaming about seeing all the people he tried to save afterward (I think a beautiful shot would show a concerned Supes holding a kid, and flying him to the hospital, telling him to keep fighting for survival. Maybe have him say "I'm so sorry" and cry subtly. That would showcase Cavill's acting ability AND show Superman's compassion and remorse for the events regarding MOS.) Then have someone say "Clark, are you listening." and see him go back to work.

I don't want him to have plot-induced panic attacks, but I also don't want to see him brush it all off.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #84
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Or people would accuse Superman of being "emo," that complaint WILL be made, its inevitable. Also, he has nothing to be remorseful about, if it weren't for him, EVERYONE would be dead.

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Old 10-19-2013, 11:11 PM   #85
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

I'm surprised. I'm no professional writer, but if I were in Goyer's shoes, I'd move on to a new tale. I wouldn't dwell on something like that because it slows the next story. There is the route of using it as a device that Batman and Kal go head-to-head on, but that handicaps one of your characters because the audience will have to perceive one of them being in the right and one as being in the wrong. So where do they go?

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Old 10-20-2013, 12:11 AM   #86
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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They should definately retcon MOS so that he's looking around for survivors after the Zod attacks. A flashback would be appropriate, or Superman could have nightmares about the people he couldn't save.
Yeah please

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:56 AM   #87
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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I'm surprised. I'm no professional writer, but if I were in Goyer's shoes, I'd move on to a new tale. I wouldn't dwell on something like that because it slows the next story. There is the route of using it as a device that Batman and Kal go head-to-head on, but that handicaps one of your characters because the audience will have to perceive one of them being in the right and one as being in the wrong. So where do they go?
Aren't nearly all of the best sequels ever made organic continuations of the original films?

Notables: Aliens, Godfather II, Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2.

If you build a good world, the sequel writes itself I think. Just follow the plot.


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Old 10-20-2013, 10:12 AM   #88
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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Aren't nearly all of the best sequels ever made organic continuations of the original films?

Notables: Aliens, Godfather II, Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2.

If you build a good world, the sequel writes itself I think. Just follow the plot.
I'll use the example of The Dark Knight. It's the sequel to Batman Begins but doesn't need Batman Begins for it to be established as a great stand alone movie. It's considered as one of the best movies of all time. It isn't just relegated to being a great sequel.

I do see what you're saying with franchises based on a saga style of storytelling. Back to the Future, The Matrix and the Lord of the Rings movies are another example. They are essentially part twos to the same story.



The reason that I don't think that the MoS franchise can fit this mold because (I'm assuming here) half of the story revolves around a character that had nothing to do with the first movie. If it was about Superman vs Zod 'n friends then I think that they could use that saga style that I was referring to.

Of course, I didn't mention that I'm no professional writer.

EDIT: After rereading, I should probably point out that another reason that I feel this way is because of the trend in superhero movies of having a new villain for each movie.

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #89
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Empire Strikes Back doesn't really reference A New Hope at all outside of the opening crawl. Aliens only references the first movie in the context of explaining why Ripley is demoted and hates androids. She doesn't dwell on the events onboard the Nostromo. Terminator references specific events in Terminator, but the characters don't dwell on them. Having Superman brooding about what happened in MOS risks bogging down the narrative in this film. If they want to reference it, then that's what Batman and Lex are there for, Clark can play off them.

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #90
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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Empire Strikes Back doesn't really reference A New Hope at all outside of the opening crawl. Aliens only references the first movie in the context of explaining why Ripley is demoted and hates androids. She doesn't dwell on the events onboard the Nostromo. Terminator references specific events in Terminator, but the characters don't dwell on them. Having Superman brooding about what happened in MOS risks bogging down the narrative in this film. If they want to reference it, then that's what Batman and Lex are there for, Clark can play off them.
I'm with you. I don't really like the idea of Goyer or Snyder "apologizing" via story. I'd prefer that they focus on the next step.

We didn't see anything from Batman in The Dark Knight or The Dark Knight Rises that showed him feeling bad for killing Harvey Dent. No one in the general audience cared. That obviously points to just Zod's death and not anyone else in the city, but the point is that I don't feel like these types of things are necessary.

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:59 PM   #91
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^ I don't know, I think TDKR did a very good job of implying that Bruce was so guilty by everything that happened that he gave up his role as Batman.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:04 PM   #92
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^ I don't know, I think TDKR did a very good job of implying that Bruce was so guilty by everything that happened that he gave up his role as Batman.
I didn't get the impression that there was any guilt about Harvey. Maybe some from Rachel's death, but he was trying to quit all along. He had just finally had his chance to move. The only reason that he didn't was because he wasn't used to being part of society.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #93
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Default Re: MOS potential for BVS

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I don't think that any screen time needs to be allocated to Superman reflecting on the deaths from Man of Steel. This movie should be treated as its own entity. I don't understand the process behind using this movie to correct something that a minority group takes issue with. These aren't common discussions with the general audience.

If the sequel to Man of Steel spends time on a retcon and it doesn't please the general audience, we lose part of this movie for nothing.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I'm honestly interested. For those who have issues with the deaths in Man of Steel, would a reflection sequence of Kal in this movie change your mind about the events of Man of Steel?
Don't see it in that way.. think as a way to connect both movies in the intro as BB and TDK did.. that doesn't mean a mistake for the last movie.. they leave for the sequel and should be a key to the next.. the searching or remorsing the victims from MOS

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #94
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Don't see it in that way.. think as a way to connect both movies in the intro as BB and TDK did.. that doesn't mean a mistake for the last movie.. they leave for the sequel and should be a key to the next.. the searching or remorsing the victims from MOS
Ok, I can see it in that light. The reason for my initial question was because I had read something about a retcon. That was the reason for my rambling about apologizing and such.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:17 PM   #95
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Ok, I can see it in that light. The reason for my initial question was because I had read something about a retcon. That was the reason for my rambling about apologizing and such.
ok then.. we're cool

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #96
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ok then.. we're cool
Okay, I'll put down my dukes.

To switch subjects, I've been thinking a lot about a Suicide Squad being included as the primary threat for a Justice League movie. I wouldn't mind the hint that we got of STAR labs to be built upon in BvS to set something like that up.

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Old 10-20-2013, 03:23 PM   #97
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If referencing what happened in MOS and/or using flashbacks to show him saving trapped civilians (for example) is actually part of the plot of the next film, then yes.

If it's chucked in there to pander to those people who were upset Superman lost his cool when someone threatened his mother, and broke some buildings while saving the entire planet, then no.

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Old 10-20-2013, 03:54 PM   #98
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If referencing what happened in MOS and/or using flashbacks to show him saving trapped civilians (for example) is actually part of the plot of the next film, then yes.

If it's chucked in there to pander to those people who were upset Superman lost his cool when someone threatened his mother, and broke some buildings while saving the entire planet, then no.
Agreed. There are a lot of fans that just can't be happy, no matter what they get. They just get a kick out of being pessimists. There's no reason to spend screen time in an attempt to make them feel all warm and fuzzy. It won't work.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:30 PM   #99
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Bren and DChero. Yes.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:53 PM   #100
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Supergirl!!

oh wait.........

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