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View Poll Results: Do you think Affleck is a good choice?
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:57 PM   #676
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
I only used Ra's because he was a convenient example of me being okay with Batman allowing a villain to die. I was actually speaking more in a general sense and not limiting myself to Nolan's films.
I think the Nolan films really pushed the envelope of what we'd think as acceptable in the Batman lore. I mean, in the comics, you know the rogues or big heroes can't die. If they die, they aren't really dead.

BatGod originated in the comics, where he's able to do impossible feats to save the day. There's not a whole lot at stake either way.

Nolan's Batman isn't like that, not by a long shot. Despite his abilities and will, he's still only human.

There are some who are pissed that he didn't take out Harvey Dent with a batarang or something and manage to save both Dent and the kid, (not to mention choosing not to save Ra's) but I think for the most part, people accepted it. It went against the typical Batman lore, but it was all right.

Although I still have no idea why so many Batman fans are okay with Burton's Batman killing goons left and right, but that's neither here nor there, I suppose.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #677
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I don't want to see any of the past Batman movies influence Batman's motives. They are very different from those in the comics. I want to see a Batman who is ruthless but doesn't kill.
I have no problem with him killing in the past movies, but I just think it's an easy way out for the writers.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #678
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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I think the Nolan films really pushed the envelope of what we'd think as acceptable in the Batman lore.
I'd be inclined to agree with you. Nolan has done some controversial stuff. I was fine with most of it.

Again, I feel that with Batman allowing someone to die, it depends on the execution.

If the Joker was having a heart attack and Batman just turned around and walked out of the room without a second thought, I would think that he was acting out of character. If, however, he called 911 and then left, I would be fine.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #679
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

That's what Batman normally does. He'll cripple the **** out of you and then have the nerve to call the E.R., the bastard.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #680
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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That's what Batman normally does. He'll cripple the **** out of you and then have the nerve to call the E.R., the bastard.
Plus

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:00 PM   #681
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Nolan's Batman isn't like that, not by a long shot. Despite his abilities and will, he's still only human.
I wouldn't go that far. At the start of TDKR, Bruce is already in bad shape. (If I remember correctly, he's devoid of cartilage in one of his knees.) On top of that, he sustains a broken back. A normal human wouldn't be able to come back from these type of injuries the way Bruce does in the film.

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #682
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
I think the Nolan films really pushed the envelope of what we'd think as acceptable in the Batman lore. I mean, in the comics, you know the rogues or big heroes can't die. If they die, they aren't really dead.

BatGod originated in the comics, where he's able to do impossible feats to save the day. There's not a whole lot at stake either way.

Nolan's Batman isn't like that, not by a long shot. Despite his abilities and will, he's still only human.

There are some who are p***ed that he didn't take out Harvey Dent with a batarang or something and manage to save both Dent and the kid, (not to mention choosing not to save Ra's) but I think for the most part, people accepted it. It went against the typical Batman lore, but it was all right.

Although I still have no idea why so many Batman fans are okay with Burton's Batman killing goons left and right, but that's neither here nor there, I suppose.
Umm. Kind of a straw man. Go to IGN and you'll find MANY people bashing the Burton films for the characterization of its titular hero.

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:10 PM   #683
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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I wouldn't go that far. At the start of TDKR, Bruce is already in bad shape. (If I remember correctly, he's devoid of cartilage in one of his knees.) On top of that, he sustains a broken back. A normal human wouldn't be able to come back from these type of injuries the way Bruce does in the film.
Hey, there's got to be SOME fantastical things in those movies, or else no one would hear the end of how Nolan took all the fun out of Batman movies.

I still want the heels that allowed Selina Kyle to land gently after a backflip out a second story window.

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:14 PM   #684
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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I wouldn't go that far. At the start of TDKR, Bruce is already in bad shape. (If I remember correctly, he's devoid of cartilage in one of his knees.) On top of that, he sustains a broken back. A normal human wouldn't be able to come back from these type of injuries the way Bruce does in the film.
Bruce is human but a very unordinary human. Coming back from a broken back with a lot of strength has been done, Bruce still wasn't at his peak compared to when he was in his 20s or early 30s after he escapes the pit but he's stronger than he's been in several years. It was completely fine. There's a lot more fantastical things happening than that.

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Old 11-05-2013, 05:03 PM   #685
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Bruce is human but a very unordinary human. Coming back from a broken back with a lot of strength has been done, Bruce still wasn't at his peak compared to when he was in his 20s or early 30s after he escapes the pit but he's stronger than he's been in several years. It was completely fine. There's a lot more fantastical things happening than that.
A broken back cannot be healed by punching/forcing the vertebrae back in; and that's basically what happens in TDKR. Just about everything surrounding the "pit" you reference is far-fetched and silly.

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Old 11-05-2013, 05:08 PM   #686
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Hey, there's got to be SOME fantastical things in those movies, or else no one would hear the end of how Nolan took all the fun out of Batman movies.
I guess. The last film really pushed the envelope though.

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Old 11-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #687
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

whatever, it's a movie.

Plus, a blinded man recovered his sight after being hit by a lightning bolt.
So everything is pssible.
Will can do everything.
End.


So, what's new about Ben A?
I don't really like his face but I have to admit he wears well the tuxedo.
And I like him since Daredevil. I did not think he was bad in his role.


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Old 11-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #688
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by ArmsHeldOut View Post
A broken back cannot be healed by punching/forcing the vertebrae back in; and that's basically what happens in TDKR. Just about everything surrounding the "pit" you reference is far-fetched and silly.
It's a movie and Nolan's universe was never realistic, he has even said so. All 3 movies have things in it that are far-fetched. Plenty. The idea was to make it relatable, take it seriously and at least make it more real than the previous Batman movies (and most likely future).

You can say that in that world, Bruce's vertebrae was out and they don't have anything to help him other than putting it back in...bingo. He's then told to stand up with a rope tied tightly around him (they have nothing else) until he can stand straight. Weeks or days pass (don't remember which) and he's able to move. Close to 5 months later he's able to get out of the pit through training himself with simple old school methods. Done.

In that world it worked, just like Two-Face walking around without medication with half his face blown off while drinking alcohol, having it drip down his face without feeling any excruciating pain. Just like the microwave emitter in Begins.

Suspension of disbelief. Just like you would when watching a James Bond movie (especially the earliest ones with Connery or the recent Craig movies or even the Lazenby one). It's a real world, real people, like with Daniel Craig's version you can take his character seriously and the others around him. But it's still not realistic. It's still an action movie.

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Old 11-05-2013, 08:56 PM   #689
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Hey, there's got to be SOME fantastical things in those movies, or else no one would hear the end of how Nolan took all the fun out of Batman movies.
Yes, because seeing a retired Batman, with a physically broken Bruce is "fun".


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Old 11-05-2013, 10:50 PM   #690
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Hey, there's got to be SOME fantastical things in those movies, or else no one would hear the end of how Nolan took all the fun out of Batman movies.

I still want the heels that allowed Selina Kyle to land gently after a backflip out a second story window.
The fact that you list INSANELY mundane, barely noticeably unrealistic things like this completely disproves your point. If this is one of the few things that keep the Nolan verse "fantastical" then they're doing something wrong

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Old 11-05-2013, 11:10 PM   #691
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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It's a movie and Nolan's universe was never realistic, he has even said so.
Here's a quote from Goyer: “Christopher Nolan and I have been trying to bring the naturalism of the Batman trilogy. Our approach has always been naturalist, realistic; we always try to imagine these stories as if they could happen in the same world in which we live."

So, yes, Nolan and Goyer strove for realism to a certain extent -- even to the point where the acclaimed director suggested that a character like Superman could not exist in the same world in which his particular depiction of Batman resides. That's where I find the problem. If Nolan and Goyer had refrained from advancing such claims and ideologies, it wouldn't be an issue, but they did just that.

The Dark Knight trilogy universe isn't open to Superman, but a Bruce Wayne capable of recovering from a broken back by having his vertebrae punched back in is more than welcome to hang around there? Okay. Nolan bends the rules of logic whenever it suits his needs. Goyer does the same. When they simply would rather not do something, they use realism as an excuse.


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Old 11-05-2013, 11:53 PM   #692
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

Man, it's crazy that this still gets debated. The intention was never to make a documentary about being a superhero. It was simply to treat it like a more like a "regular" action movie as opposed to a highly stylized comic booky movie. Are Die Hard or Mission: Impossible "realistic"? Heck no. But they're gritty and take place in a world we can recognize in our own, so they project a certain level of believability despite still having over the top stuff happening in them. Same applies to TDKT.

There was very much a consistent philosophy behind what they were trying to accomplish with the verisimilitude. It's not just for the hell of it, it went a long way in establishing the tone that Nolan wanted for those movies. Having a flying alien in the film effects the tone of the film, it just does. It is on an entirely different level than the main character miraculously recovering from a back injury.


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Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Weeks or days pass (don't remember which) and he's able to move. Close to 5 months later he's able to get out of the pit through training himself with simple old school methods. Done.
It's at least weeks, because his goatee is a lot longer after the Ra's dream sequence.

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Old 11-06-2013, 12:38 AM   #693
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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The fact that you list INSANELY mundane, barely noticeably unrealistic things like this completely disproves your point. If this is one of the few things that keep the Nolan verse "fantastical" then they're doing something wrong
Are you a woman? Have you walked in heels like that?

It's not mundane to a woman who's worn heels like that.

These characters can do things that we can't. -shrug- That was just one of the moments that made me go, "Impressive!" but most people would gloss over since....I hate wearing heels. And I'm a really detail-oriented person anyway.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:11 AM   #694
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
There was very much a consistent philosophy behind what they were trying to accomplish with the verisimilitude. It's not just for the hell of it, it went a long way in establishing the tone that Nolan wanted for those movies. Having a flying alien in the film effects the tone of the film, it just does. It is on an entirely different level than the main character miraculously recovering from a back injury.
I don't think you're thinking big/wide enough. I'd easily square up any of Shyamlan's first three films against the Dark Knight trilogy for a battle of which "felt" more real and grounded. Considering one director has ghosts, aliens, and a demigod in their filmography, that's a remarkable feat.

Tone is dictated by direction, not content.

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Old 11-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #695
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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A broken back cannot be healed by punching/forcing the vertebrae back in; and that's basically what happens in TDKR. Just about everything surrounding the "pit" you reference is far-fetched and silly.
Urmm..

Broken back Batman ---> Comics.

Dislocated vertebrae----> Nolan's TDKR.



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Old 11-06-2013, 06:52 AM   #696
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Urmm..

Broken back Batman ---> Comics.

Dislocated vertebrae----> Nolan's TDKR.


When an injury is sustained in the back section of the spinal column, leaving the bones/vertebrae ruptured or dislocated, you have what is called a broken back. In other words, same thing. His spine was damaged.

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Old 11-06-2013, 06:57 AM   #697
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

Anyway, how about that Ben Affleck? I hear he's playing Batman.

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Old 11-06-2013, 07:02 AM   #698
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Anyway, how about that Ben Affleck? I hear he's playing Batman.
I heard that too.

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Old 11-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #699
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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The fact that you list INSANELY mundane, barely noticeably unrealistic things like this completely disproves your point. If this is one of the few things that keep the Nolan verse "fantastical" then they're doing something wrong
This is a crazy world in which an OTT flip is considered mundane

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Old 11-06-2013, 08:33 AM   #700
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I see quotes from Goyer. Here's something Nolan himself said about his Batman films. Here's from a snippet from an interview, posted at film comment.

Quote:
CHRISTOPHER NOLAN: The term “realism” is often confusing and used sort of arbitrarily. I suppose “relatable” is the word I would use. I wanted a world that was realistically portrayed, in that even though outlandish events may be taking place, and this extraordinary figure may be walking around these streets, the streets would have the same weight and validity of the streets in any other action movie. So they’d be relatable in that way.

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