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View Poll Results: Do you think Affleck is a good choice?
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:01 PM   #76
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

Kubrick is the definition of cold. Nolan shouldn't be compared to him. He's not as meticulous with getting everything so perfect that the scene is just an art gallery with zero life to it (and im a Kubrick fan so don't hate on me Kubrick lovers). Nolan is really interested in the psychology, much more than Kubrick was but he still has emotion in his movies.

Some people found it cheesy when Hathaway said Nolan was like Hitchock with a shotgun. I actually liked that description. But there are other directors that are similar to Hitchcock than Nolan, that's for sure.

He's in his own class. Whether you love him or hate him or just think his movies are OK, he's still his own filmmaker. Just like Tarantino is his own style now, even though he wears his influences on his sleeve.

One thing im scratching my head over, is Affleck directing batman. He's been one of my favorite choices for the job but his style is actually more gritty and realistic than Nolan's. Will he go into a new direction for himself or will his realism not fit this universe? This is maybe why Ben should go to Alfonso Cuaron or Rian Johnson. I don't know Cuaron's knowledge of batman, but Rian doesn't read comics. He LOVED the Burton films and loves the Nolan trilogy. That's all he knows about batman. Those villains are the only ones he's aware of.

Ill try to bring this thread back to Affleck but with a question about who will direct the solo films. Ben or someone else? Cuaron is the man right now. He can do anything. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Batman, Justice League. Im sure WB are going after him as we speak.

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Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
Basically some people strictly go to the movies to think, some go strictly to feel emotion. The only way to get a full experience is to have a hybrid. Both extremes don't make for good film viewing. If I wanted all emotion I'd watch sports, and if I wanted to constantly use my brain I'd go to school.
IMO Nolan's movies like Memento can be just for intellectual people. I don't find emotion in that movie even though I've always dug it. But his Batman movies are known amongst its fans and filmmaker-fans, to be the perfect balance between great filmmaking, intellect and with heart and emotion + big budget action for a summer blockbuster. Even Paul Thomas Anderson has said something similar. The trilogy was all about great balance, which is rare these days.


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Old 10-18-2013, 09:03 PM   #77
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

Ben knows the Bat mythos pretty well, as he's been a comic fan for pretty much his whole life apparently. I think he'd want to incorporate some of the more fantastical elements but keep it gritty at the same time, which is possible. The only other living people that really are Bat experts right now are Paul Dini, Bruce Timm and maybe Grant Morrison.

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Old 10-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #78
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

^ Kevin Smith wrote some comics, but he retconned Year One so that he had an 'accident' when triggering the pyrotechnics. Anyone who replaces one of Batman's best speeches with a "bladder spasm" deserves EXTRA scrutinity

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Old 10-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #79
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Nolan's films being "cold." That sounds like something that some people say about Stanley Kubrick's work. I cannot agree with the argument that Keaton's Batman is better. We NEVER really got in his head (Burton was too obsessed with the villains) and I will never support a mass-murdering Batman. Nolan at least got Batman at his core right, even if he change some surface details.
Nolan's Bat films have plenty warmth. They're just surrounded by cold events and circumstances. The warm elements are shown. They're optimistic and upbeat, even in the face of doubt or what seems like defeat.
Heart and perseverance shines through each noble character, even through chaotic storms. They seem cold. Perhaps they are. But warm elements overtake things if you look hard enough.

I was more than satisfied emotionally with TDKT.

I wouldn't argue Keaton's Batman or Bruce Wayne is best.
I look through ALL the films, even B&R, to see the full picture of the character.
He started out full of pain and hurt, wanting to reap vengeance on those that hurt people, that destroyed him. Even after the killing of Joker, he felt no peace. Had no regard for the life of evil doers.

Then during BR and BF, he discovered it was he himself who was a true monster. That he felt no peace, because he allowed himself to spiral and obsess on the anger and pain. He took lives, which he regretted, because it destroyed him.
But he was slowly coming to terms. He became Bruce Wayne...whereas Keaton really didn't care about that.
He opened a new chapter. He wanted and slowly allowed himself to become human...
Bruce Wayne was needed to add a more humane element to Batman, to stop the monster from reaping vengeance again.
Did Bruce Wayne like himself in Forever? Of course he didn't. And once he stopped blaming others for his pain, it unlocked a hidden memory. ..that he may have been responsible. He was responsible for the monster and it nearly destroyed him as was coming to terms with the things he did...
By the end, he would continue to try and redeem himself for the mistakes he made in B89 and BR, by molding Dick Grayson into a man he should have been in the first place.

By B&R, his pain manifested into the desire of trying to beat death. He didn't want to lose Alfred like he lost his parents. He was afraid he would lose Dick to Poison Ivy. Death was something he hated. It was all the reason of his pain beginning in B89. He didn't want to go through with it again. He might've lost both Dick and Alfred to death. He would've been left alone again. Julie Madison wanted to marry him, but you could see, losing past loves. ..He didn't want her exposed to Batman, because that's the reason he ends up being alone in the end.

It's too bad things turned out the way the did.
Because I loved the films beginning to end.

Bruce started out alone and in pain.
By the end, he was content and had a family.

When I think about it, it's an emotional tale.

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Old 10-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #80
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I loved the intensity of Keaton's Batman so wouldn't mind seeing some of that with Affleck.
I'd love to have a scene where Batman says something a little too hardcore/fanatic (for lack of a better term) for Superman, who then gives him a loooong sidelong look, like "am I sure I should be working with this guy?"

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Old 10-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Homer J. Fong View Post
Nolan's movies are more engaging intellectually than they are emotionally, but I don't think that's the same as his characters being cold or hard to feel for; I generally don't think they are. Plus, I think his Batman trilogy is the exception in his oeuvre to that "more engaging intellectually than emotionally" thing.

Okay, I really just wanted to use the word "oeuvre."


I wouldn't call Nolan's films more engaging intellectually (that implies he's more arthouse than not), but YMMV with that. I find his plot construction and timeline jumping to be intensely enjoyable and fascinating, and others find them to be overly complicated and hard to keep up with.

Nolan does make the effort to bridge the gap and make it accessible, at least on a basic level, for the mainstream audience. He doesn't go full Kubrick, who just presented us with 2001 and was like, "THERE! Make sense out of THAT!"

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One thing im scratching my head over, is Affleck directing batman. He's been one of my favorite choices for the job but his style is actually more gritty and realistic than Nolan's. Will he go into a new direction for himself or will his realism not fit this universe? This is maybe why Ben should go to Alfonso Cuaron or Rian Johnson. I don't know Cuaron's knowledge of batman, but Rian doesn't read comics. He LOVED the Burton films and loves the Nolan trilogy. That's all he knows about batman. Those villains are the only ones he's aware of.

Ill try to bring this thread back to Affleck but with a question about who will direct the solo films. Ben or someone else? Cuaron is the man right now. He can do anything. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Batman, Justice League. Im sure WB are going after him as we speak.
Well, before Batman Begins, the only things Nolan had on his resume were gritty, realistic neo-noirs (Following, Memento, Insomnia). Affleck may surprise us yet.

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Old 10-18-2013, 10:10 PM   #82
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Homer J. Fong View Post
Nolan's movies are more engaging intellectually than they are emotionally, but I don't think that's the same as his characters being cold or hard to feel for; I generally don't think they are. Plus, I think his Batman trilogy is the exception in his oeuvre to that "more engaging intellectually than emotionally" thing.

Okay, I really just wanted to use the word "oeuvre."
I think the fact that we -- as viewers -- aren't all wired the same way should be taken into consideration as well. When certain cinematic portrayals resonate with us for whatever reason, in addition to the film itself, it says quite a bit about who we are as individuals; and we're clearly not all alike.

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Old 10-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #83
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post

I was more than satisfied emotionally with TDKT.
Although TDKR suffers from far too many flaws, for the first time since Nolan took the reins of the Batman franchise, I actually found myself feeling for the characters, especially in regard to the dynamic between Bruce and Alfred.

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Old 10-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #84
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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I really do think that some people are just looking for something, anything to complain or worry about. It's like a compulsion, they just can't help it.
Affleck is my favorite - so my vote for him

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Old 10-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #85
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I'm not sure where the idea that Nolan's Batfilms are "cold" is coming from. The three Batman films are loaded with emotional melodrama, often to the point where it becomes a bit much. I think that Nolan's general approach to emotional sequences is somewhat "clinical" and relies on cinematic structure more, and tends to feel less organic. But I wouldn't say they lack warmth.

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Old 10-19-2013, 12:33 AM   #86
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

The Nolan Batman trilogy is emotional, those are actually surprisingly moving films. Nolan's more known for toying with people's minds than for tugging at their heartstrings, and I think that's where a lot of the feeling that he's cold comes from - and then there are those who just don't connect to his characters.

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Old 10-19-2013, 01:39 AM   #87
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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The Nolan Batman trilogy is emotional, those are actually surprisingly moving films. Nolan's more known for toying with people's minds than for tugging at their heartstrings, and I think that's where a lot of the feeling that he's cold comes from - and then there are those who just don't connect to his characters.
I agree with this for the most part. And, again, for those who rarely/never seem to find themselves moved in watching Nolan's films, I highly recommend The Prestige. If that doesn't get you, nothing will!

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Old 10-19-2013, 01:42 AM   #88
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I need to see The Prestige again, because even though I did like it a lot when I saw it (once, five+ years ago), I didn't fall for it the way I did the first time I saw Memento or Inception.

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Old 10-19-2013, 02:33 AM   #89
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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I'm not sure where the idea that Nolan's Batfilms are "cold" is coming from. The three Batman films are loaded with emotional melodrama, often to the point where it becomes a bit much. I think that Nolan's general approach to emotional sequences is somewhat "clinical" and relies on cinematic structure more, and tends to feel less organic. But I wouldn't say they lack warmth.
They're "cold" in that, instead of inviting you in, they emotionally engage you by standing at your window and staring inside. If that makes any sense...

I'm not sure how Nolan does this, but his films get under your skin. Even though he doesn't shove the drama in your face using slow-motion (thank God) or tragic sweeping musical beats (much ), you can't help but get caught up in what's happening. It's not so much relating to the protagonists, as it is feeling like we're in the story with them, whether we like it or not.

This is most palpable during TDK. Joker causes 0.0000001% the damage that Zod and Supes cause in MOS, and you don't even see that deranged clown for the majority of the movie, but you know he's there, and it's scary. Somehow, with only four non-skyscraper buildings exploding, Nolan managed to capture the dread that we all felt on 9/11.

Whereas by the Zod engages Supes in that final fight (after MOS collapses more than a few skyscrapers that looked very very much like the real-life WTC falling), I threw up my hands and was like, "Well, they already destroyed one half of Metropolis, why not the other half?"

Back to this version of Bats - I reeeeaaally wonder what they have up their sleeves to follow the destruction of what seemed like 90% of Metropolis. I mean, how do you even start? Especially if you're Zack Snyder and not Chris Nolan?

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I agree with this for the most part. And, again, for those who rarely/never seem to find themselves moved in watching Nolan's films, I highly recommend The Prestige. If that doesn't get you, nothing will!
I can't stand watching that film. It was incredibly powerful, yes, but the two/three warring characters were just so loathsome, ugh. I just can't do it.

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Old 10-19-2013, 02:41 AM   #90
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

So how 'bout that Nolan, guys? Am I right?

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Old 10-19-2013, 02:43 AM   #91
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

When are they filming again? I heard 4 months someplace?

Do we have a plot? This is why we keep going in circles and back to Nolan!

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Old 10-19-2013, 02:57 AM   #92
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I can't stand watching that film. It was incredibly powerful, yes, but the two/three warring characters were just so loathsome, ugh. I just can't do it.
That's how I feel about our politicians. (Love the movie though!)

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:17 AM   #93
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The emotions are more slow-building and slow-burning in Nolan's movies, the kind that sits with you a good 15-20 minutes after the movie's last shot.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:19 AM   #94
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When are they filming again? I heard 4 months someplace?
Production supposedly kicks into gear roughly 4 months from now, yeah. Technically it starts today, though, as they're filming a scene in a Los Angeles based college stadium during the halftime of a football game.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:49 AM   #95
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When are they filming again? I heard 4 months someplace?

Do we have a plot? This is why we keep going in circles and back to Nolan!



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Old 10-19-2013, 05:45 AM   #96
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

MOS, in my opinion, was colder than the Nolan Bat films.

But there were warm moments. However, I just didn't connect with it as good as TDKT.

Honestly. If it weren't for Clark and Lois' scene beside Jonathan's grave, I wouldn't be as forgiven. Cavill and Adams sold the most emotional performance.

Am I worried about that happening with the sequel? Possibly not connecting with Batman in the way I have previously? A bit.
However. They can make Batman as tough, tactical, and calculating as much as they want. They can have him grabbing Clark by the throat.
One may ask,"how can you feel any warmth for a character as cold as that?"
The answer is: You can't.

But. If Goyer and Snyder can include just ONE scene, of Bruce's pain. The love for his parents. I think it'd be more than enough for us to understand and connect with him.

MOS was a cold film. But the characters were not devoid of warmth. I think in the filmmaking, story, whatever, utilised by Snyder and Nolan, their movies appear cold. But they're not. It gives you a better chance of being able to really understand just how warm the characters are, in a seemingly cold world.
I think the same will apply with Affleck's Batman.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #97
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

I am not a good judge of Nolans work.
I am one of the few people that I know that liked Insomnia.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:13 AM   #98
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^ If I told you that Insomnia is my favorite Nolan film, would everyone flatten me with a steamroller on here? I know I couldn't get away with that on IMDB.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:22 AM   #99
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

Frankly, i've never found any of the Batman films really that warm. The Schumacer films were campy and lighter in tone than Burton's but I never really found them warm . Was Batman 89 warm when Joker was frying some guy with a hand buzzer? Or when Bruce treated Vicki like a distraction after sleeping with her? Or in BR Selina being revived by cats licking her bloody body? Or Batman blowing some dude up and smiling ? Or even B&R when we got the horrid acting combined with butt shots ? I've never felt much warmth and heart from any of the Batman films , just degrees of seriousness. Maybe it depends on every ones own definition of warmth.

Now , if you're talking emotional moments , then the Nolan films have tons of those and I'd say that BR has quite a few emotional moments mainly in relation to Selina's character imo , more than B89 actually.

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:36 AM   #100
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 9

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When are they filming again? I heard 4 months someplace?

Do we have a plot? This is why we keep going in circles and back to Nolan!
No plot yet. Can't wait to hear some solid details, but I hope we don't hear to much. I want them to keep it under wraps, for the most part.

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