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Old 11-05-2013, 11:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

^Agreed.

I am currently reading the Punisher Max series, just finished book 3, Mother Russia, and if they adapted that as a TV series it would be amazing. Nick Fury makes an appearance in MR so you could have cameos like they have in SHIELD, it would be superb.

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Old 11-06-2013, 12:18 AM   #52
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

bring back Tom Jane!!!

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Old 11-06-2013, 07:05 AM   #53
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

^Agree with that, would LOVE it if he came back as he was awesome as the character and deserves another shot at portraying him properly. That 10 min short was great but TJ deserves to play him longer than that.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

People keep assuming the Punisher has to be a bloody, super mature story. It doesn't and I just don't see Marvel going that route regardless because it doesn't draw in enough people.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:49 PM   #55
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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The Punisher is not supposed to be likable. He is an avatar of the darkest/ugliest part of us that wishes we could exact the type of brutal justice needed to scare horrible criminals that are untouched by the law.
Only unlikable perhaps to other characters in the universe. But he has to be likeable to audiences enough for them to want to invest in the character and want to follow him. If he's completely unlikeable to them, no-one will want to watch and no-one will care about his adventures or what he does. They'll simply tune into something else where they actually like the main character, and then the show will simply fail.

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Old 11-11-2013, 04:36 AM   #56
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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Only unlikable perhaps to other characters in the universe. But he has to be likeable to audiences enough for them to want to invest in the character and want to follow him. If he's completely unlikeable to them, no-one will want to watch and no-one will care about his adventures or what he does. They'll simply tune into something else where they actually like the main character, and then the show will simply fail.
not true at all. The Punisher MAX series proves that. Objectively, if you really look at what he has become and what he does, its awful. But he is a necessary evil and you are entranced by the machine he becomes. He's basically the Terminator for mobsters.

In the kind of society we live in today, one where we saw constant injustices not get their due judgment, we secretly clamor for someone like him. You write horrible/despicable characters that DESERVE to be brutally killed.

Again, read what I wrote after the bolded part you highlighted because that's the best way to approach Frank Castle.

Mother Russia, Slavers, Up is Down and Black is White would be glorious to see on screen, those are my definitely my 3 favorite arcs from the MAX series.

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Old 11-11-2013, 08:14 AM   #57
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

^Just halfway through Slavers now and have read the others, Frank does some terrible things in them but you cant help but like him as the people he is doing it to deserve it so much.

A series based on the Punisher Max comics would be superb IMO, it gives Frank the right amount of sympathy and likability were you are actually rooting for him despite some of the terrible things he does.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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not true at all. The Punisher MAX series proves that. Objectively, if you really look at what he has become and what he does, its awful. But he is a necessary evil and you are entranced by the machine he becomes. He's basically the Terminator for mobsters.

In the kind of society we live in today, one where we saw constant injustices not get their due judgment, we secretly clamor for someone like him. You write horrible/despicable characters that DESERVE to be brutally killed.

Again, read what I wrote after the bolded part you highlighted because that's the best way to approach Frank Castle.

Mother Russia, Slavers, Up is Down and Black is White would be glorious to see on screen, those are my definitely my 3 favorite arcs from the MAX series.
You're still confusing likeability within the internal universe of the story (where the person can be completely despicable) with likeability by the audience where they are interested enough to want to follow him, either as a character or an actor. A character can be a mass murderer and carry out atrocious acts, but audiences can still want to follow his story because there is a certain appeal. Something like Breaking Bad shows a character who becomes somewhat of a monster, but audiences are still invested in him, partly because Bryan Cranston is riveting to watch.

On the other hand, a character can be completely heroic but unlikeable either because they'd absolutely dull or intolerable - eg Agent Ward in Agents of SHIELD or Laurel Lance in Arrow. Audiences don't care to follow the character's story or invest in them if they don't find them likeable.

Your example of Punisher MAX and your commentary on it proves my very point.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #59
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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You're still confusing likeability within the internal universe of the story (where the person can be completely despicable) with likeability by the audience where they are interested enough to want to follow him, either as a character or an actor. A character can be a mass murderer and carry out atrocious acts, but audiences can still want to follow his story because there is a certain appeal. Something like Breaking Bad shows a character who becomes somewhat of a monster, but audiences are still invested in him, partly because Bryan Cranston is riveting to watch.

On the other hand, a character can be completely heroic but unlikeable either because they'd absolutely dull or intolerable - eg Agent Ward in Agents of SHIELD or Laurel Lance in Arrow. Audiences don't care to follow the character's story or invest in them if they don't find them likeable.

Your example of Punisher MAX and your commentary on it proves my very point.
This is correct. Objectively he is bad, but subjectively, he is likeable. Nothing can be objectively likeable, that is not what likeable means. Jack Sparrow. Gregory House. Severus Snape. Horrible people. Very likeable.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:58 PM   #60
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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This is correct. Objectively he is bad, but subjectively, he is likeable. Nothing can be objectively likeable, that is not what likeable means. Jack Sparrow. Gregory House. Severus Snape. Horrible people. Very likeable.
In retrospect i don't think Snape qualifies as a horrible person..lol.. He's probably the most awesome, heroic character of the whole series when its all said and done.

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Old 11-12-2013, 01:12 AM   #61
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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You're still confusing likeability within the internal universe of the story (where the person can be completely despicable) with likeability by the audience where they are interested enough to want to follow him, either as a character or an actor. A character can be a mass murderer and carry out atrocious acts, but audiences can still want to follow his story because there is a certain appeal. Something like Breaking Bad shows a character who becomes somewhat of a monster, but audiences are still invested in him, partly because Bryan Cranston is riveting to watch.

On the other hand, a character can be completely heroic but unlikeable either because they'd absolutely dull or intolerable - eg Agent Ward in Agents of SHIELD or Laurel Lance in Arrow. Audiences don't care to follow the character's story or invest in them if they don't find them likeable.

Your example of Punisher MAX and your commentary on it proves my very point.
I think i may have misread what someone was trying to say. What I interpreted earlier is that The Punisher should have likable qualities, which he shouldn't. He should be likable in the way you said and using BB as an example is perfect.

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Old 11-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #62
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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In retrospect i don't think Snape qualifies as a horrible person..lol.. He's probably the most awesome, heroic character of the whole series when its all said and done.
Ah, didn't know that, haven't finished it myself. Good catch.

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Old 11-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #63
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

So if the Punisher does show up either in Daredevil or in a TV series of his own, do people want Tom Jane to play him again or someone else? Would Tom Jane commit to a Netflix TV series?

It should be similar to the Dirty Laundry short.

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Old 11-14-2013, 01:36 PM   #64
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

I think on level of "Baddness and likeability" I'd like to see them go a sort of Rambo First Blood approach...he's "bad" by the police standards and the media but what he is doing is actually good. He's just a little messed up that's all.

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Old 11-14-2013, 02:11 PM   #65
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

Tom Jane should return as The Punisher for anything in the MCU.

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Old 11-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #66
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

The Punisher being likeable or not depends on the version. Punisher Max takes a dimmer view of him, but that's merely ONE INTERPRETATION. If you read Rucka's run (which is fantastic btw) it's a very different take on the character than Ennis. I'm certain that Nathan Edmondson's upcoming run will be different still.

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Old 11-14-2013, 04:23 PM   #67
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

I think Marvel is just going to sit on Punisher for a while. The character has had 3 iterations on cinema (2 in the last decade) and its gone badly every time. It is rare that a character gets that many shots at the big screen. I don't think he's going to get another movie or a series centered around him anytime soon.

I think the best we can hope for is a guest appearances in these tv shows, and frankly i think that might be the best way to go about it.

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Old 11-14-2013, 06:28 PM   #68
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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So if the Punisher does show up either in Daredevil or in a TV series of his own, do people want Tom Jane to play him again or someone else? Would Tom Jane commit to a Netflix TV series?

It should be similar to the Dirty Laundry short.
If its at all possible, yes, I'd want Tom Jane back. That said, I'd say borrow more from the Dixon run, instead of Ennis.

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Old 11-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #69
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

Or Rucka.

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Old 11-15-2013, 12:34 AM   #70
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

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I think Marvel is just going to sit on Punisher for a while. The character has had 3 iterations on cinema (2 in the last decade) and its gone badly every time. It is rare that a character gets that many shots at the big screen. I don't think he's going to get another movie or a series centered around him anytime soon.

I think the best we can hope for is a guest appearances in these tv shows, and frankly i think that might be the best way to go about it.
to discard a character such as the Punisher because of two bad movies (04 was actually good and the DC definitely makes it better) would be very silly.

The Punisher could work and an entire series based around him is certainly feasible. 04 was gutted before production started as well as going up against Kill Bill and War Zone was garbage all around because of LG.

As far as how id like him characterized i think Ennis MAX run of the character is definitely one of the best, i am sure Tom Jane said its one of his favorite, only difference i'd make is that i wouldnt want him too far gone and unable to interact with regular people or any other MCU characters.

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Old 11-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #71
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

One advantage of using him in this Netflix side of things, is that the investment is less. Not in money, but in expectations: you can do a single "season" or mini for him, and if it doesn't go over very well, you just don't do any more.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:08 PM   #72
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

Why not do a movie where Matt Murdock represents the Punisher or Daredevil tries to bring him in? They duke it out before teaming up. The General audience knows both of these guys so why not use them while they are in the public's mind?

Marvel really has done a great job on letting their C and D level guys get exposure. Daredevil, Punisher, Blade, Ghost Rider, Man thing..................these guys could do a movie together..........Sons of something........forgot the comic but have it like a Marvel Knights thing.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:16 PM   #73
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

Man Thing could easily guest star in Daredevil if they ever covered the story where he featured, along with Gladiator and Deathstalker.

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Old 11-15-2013, 11:17 PM   #74
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Default Re: MCU Punisher story! - Mr Kevin Feige

if you have ever played the Punisher game for PS2 or XBOX it pretty much is brilliant in how they throw the Marvel Universe together into The Punisher's world and would be a great blue print

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