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Old 12-18-2013, 03:34 PM   #901
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
I think if Zola shows up it would be too much for the GA...I mean..Bucky and Steve being out of time is one thing but Zola too? too much convenience.
He's the guy who made it possible for Bucky to survive to the present in his current state. I don't think it'd be that shocking to the GA if he applied the same methods to prolong his own life.

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Old 12-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #902
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

Man I can't find an image on-line but I one of our Malco's has the coolest WS Standee with Cap's Shield!

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Old 12-18-2013, 09:45 PM   #903
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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He's the guy who made it possible for Bucky to survive to the present in his current state. I don't think it'd be that shocking to the GA if he applied the same methods to prolong his own life.
Yeah; Cap, Bucky, Zola and even Red Skull (eventually) make it to modern times, but each one's journey is entirely different. Cap is a popsicle for 70 years; Bucky has been on and off the ice for the past 70 years (assuming they keep WS' story pretty close to canon); and Zola transfers his consciousness into an AI/android some time in the past 70 years to achieve technological immortality. As for Skully, that's an entirely different story....

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Old 12-18-2013, 11:07 PM   #904
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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I'm going to be disappointed if Zola only gets his robot body at the end. I'm expecting him to already be a robot the first time we see him on screen in this movie.
I can see it going either way. The easter egg in the first movie does reveal he had the blueprints since WW2. I could see it happening completely in the past, being explained through the flashbacks. Somehow Zola extended his lifespan, but he might not do it all in one step, he may have looked into many avenues, it could be spread across the flashbacks. Not complete until the end of the flashbacks. This may mean looking into clone brains, hibernating/freezing himself with Russian tech, infinity serum precursors, or being partially cyborg.

Someone from Marvel recently said there isn't anything that's been left in the final cuts that isn't intended to be followed up on eventually. Certain plans for certain things have been seeded already.
Zola's plans and blueprints can't stray far from the source. I do agree it could be tricky for the GA to accept Zola and understand the science behind consciousness transfer into the robot. The flashbacks could build and reveal how he achieved his full consciousness transfer. A tremendous amount of energy would be required, as well as an enormous amount of storage space to space (can't remember how big in terms of computer memory but it's HUGE). You'd need a super supercomputer + a lot of energy + a lot of data storage space in the real world.

Hydra once tried to tap alternate dimensions with particle accelerators for an ultimate energy source. This might give them energy for Zola's upload. Cloned brains won't contain Zola's real consciousness and memories (in the comics Zola has been very interested in cloning actual brains, he might do this while working out parts of how to transfer consciousness).
The cloned brain thing is a strong possibility with some of what we're seeing on the Shield show. Killian had detailed knowledge about what every area of the brain does. Killian was also interested in hacking and gaining live feeds as well as brains and genetics, he may secretly have a live feed to Tony's mind... In essence Jarvis could tell Tony's physical brain remained fine, however it was in a weird state because of not sleeping, he hallucinated the first kid.

Luckily modern day scientists are actually talking about the possibility of uploading into robot bodies in the future (like 40 years from now), so there is a little bit of science to base some of it on. Zola would simply be ahead of the game.
Some of the flashbacks could explain the process, or the process might not be complete until the end of the movie, since Zola wouldn't have a big physical hand in the Cap vs Winter Soldier, and Shield stuff anyway.


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Old 12-19-2013, 12:18 AM   #905
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The tech that shows the direct feed to Killian's brain may be Killian's greatest gift to the world.

Regrowing a brain might be hard for Killian. Parts of the brain have to be regrown when the head explodes...Memories from the old Killian brain would get erased, while the physical blueprint for the brain is re-grown...The memories/data in Killian's previous mind is harder to regrow. Coulson can never know his brain was regrown. The Trevor body was given surgeries, false memories, and more. "there and not there", a human clone outfitted with the eye implant to allow Killian to see through his eyes and into his mind -- at times Killian was speaking directly through Trevor... Tony's mind has been programmed to act as "Mechanic" for some of the villains' advanced ideas. Tony might have consulted to stabilize the emotional parts of Extremis for Shield/Peterson (Simmons noted an emotional component in Extremis, and Fitz brings it up again as a possible risk i.e. it affects the mind in subtle ways)...Which means phase 3 of Extremis needs to address the memories in regrown cloned brains, which is why Coulson was taken --he's now more important to Hydra, who already has the fix via Stark's captured memories. It would all be "connected" as "Harley" says.

If the villains are already secretly invading Stark's mind and we all create our own demons applies to many things, there could be many ways that all of our brains have already been deceived by the Hydra spymasters. Tony makes almost prophetic statements in IM3 (same with Killian and Mandarin), hence the Oracle signs, and the Oracle cloud software is mentioned: "I've got a team of guys coming to blow that wall out tomorrow" He knows how the story/memory is about to play out...

Tony did see The Mandarin twists coming. The subconscious is a powerful thing, it can fill in the blanks when letters are missing or out of order/can read things forwards and backwards almost instantly (AIM/MIA), people sometimes experience what's called pre-cognitive dreams...Scarlett Witch talks to herself in other dimensions because she has more of this ability...IMO Shield calls the clones "twins" because they're like identical twins, hard to tell apart unless you're a mind reader. Kinda like how Metal Gear solid called them "sons", i think there are deliberate homages to Metal Gear Solid in this movie.

Some twins report finding it easy to be in telepathic contact with their other halves, or report psychic phenomena between twins..If Coulson finds out he was cloned he could share memories with the parts of his mind that actually want to die, and the unsuccessful clones... Coulson was forced to repress memories of the cloning process. Amadore knew he wasn't the same. Extended contact with the twin can allow you to tell them apart intuitively without being clairvoyant, even by sight alone. The same way we all get the feeling that someone is watching us. Every human mind has borderline superpowers to differing degrees...is connected to the universe and all matter on subatomic levels. Simmons doesn't know this yet, magic and science are two sides of the same coin. Skye knows that such powers exist. Coulson is subconsciously afraid of seeing the Cellist, she may know a slight change has been made that even he feels deep down already. Scarlet Witch is a far more talented mind reader who figured out Alexander Pierce was not himself in the comics.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Coulson is a perfect clone. A Peterson secretly exploded while in custody because the emotional components can cause one to go hot. Maya would be hard to clone because they don't have her brain patterns recorded. People who lose their heads or get shot in the head are harder to clone/regrow completely from a simple genetic sample that contains the entire genetic code, Coulson's head survived and is easier to clone -- Extremis is a secret shortcut to cloning (Shield has other methods), so the think tank circled Maya's work... Hydra heads double and re-grow. Killian likes shooting people in the head because they have to have their memories re-uploaded, which would drain Hydra's resources (on subconscious levels he knew that he was another false front, Hydra wants control of all sides and minds. he was to handle the false president and the false terrorist, but there are other false heads). Hydra replaced many heads of powerful organizations in all levels of society. They may be able to grow new heads. The Hydra saying goes "when one head is cut off, two shall grow in its place". The hydra has many heads, and having heads on backup is preferable. They attempted to clone Red Skull early on, but can't get the memories, the patterns were not recorded before Red Skull's consciousness was transported. People have begun cloning their pets.. The pets don't seem the same because a re-grown brain will not have all the same experiences and memories... A nature and nurture thing, parts of these movies are character studies. The inappropriately named Scorch said "you can never know someone's true character until you pierce their outer shell".

If Coulson finds out he's a clone, he will start to question if he is real, and may lose his memories/true consciousness. Coulson is still coulson, just transferred into a clone body, because Shield is better at that... Tricking the mind into containing all the conscious memories, and transferring the genetic memory of the body back into the consciousness, and the consciousness back into the body..The two parts of himself might not cooperate as well once Coulson finds out for sure how he has returned, perception is key and right now he is more real because he accepts that he is...

Killian secretly IS that type of doctor, is very interested in all areas of the brain and mass psychology/mass hypnotism. Purposely messed with Tony's psychological mind while it was attacking his body and in a weakened state. Tony's subconsciousness was attacking itself, so although it was weakened, it still took some tricks to get in, and Tony's ego is very defensive. He handled Tony's panic attacks, and Trevor's... To affect him further on many subconscious levels. The President's mind secretly belongs to Mandarin now, "welcome aboard Mr. President", and "string him up" could have multiple meanings, "i needed a reason to kill him that would play well for TV", and Trevor says they were "just making TV". The Mandarin doesn't work like that [killing the president in any way...]. Coldblood knew the full plan, Killian used stage magic and spy tactics to misdirect us and was being very subtle when he said by "this time tomorrow I'll have the worlds's most powerful leader in one hand". Not revealing his plans fully, using psychology and misdirection to condition Tony and the audience towards certain assumptions. The VP allowed him to get the location of airforce one when Tony called the hacked cellphone...
It was about replacing the president in any way possible, not killing him. The VP was already purposely outed by Trevor so the plan shifted. Also something wrong with Jarvis's "cranberries", which is now a hypnotic trigger word for Jarvis Mandarin programmed in accordance with the christmas themes at the time. IM3 can be viewed two ways, forward and reversed, before AoU and after, where Stark is an advanced idea mechanic/MIA...



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Old 12-19-2013, 01:57 AM   #906
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

what

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:56 AM   #907
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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I think if Zola shows up it would be too much for the GA...I mean..Bucky and Steve being out of time is one thing but Zola too? too much convenience.
I think it should be OK. I mean, each has defied the normal aging curve for different reasons, and the explanations are pretty well grounded in science... um, comic book science, obviously, but that's what audiences have bought into with the MCU.

Cap was deep frozen and his super serum allowed him to survive in that state for 70 or so years.

Bucky is brainwashed and kept in suspended animation, and ages in real time only when he's out on mission.

Zola, is an absolute scientific genius who, like Erskine, was decades ahead of his time. He was able to weaponize the Tesseract's power in the 40's, something that SHIELD hasn't been able to properly achieve to this day. It's not out of the question that he found a way to transfer his consciousness to a robotic body.

Oh, and Red Skull's another candidate as well considering the Tesseract sent him god-knows-where/when at the end of CA:TFA.

EDIT: Wrote this before I read 'sam's explanation... which touched upon the same points and pretty much rendered this post obsolete.

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Old 12-19-2013, 03:28 AM   #908
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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I think if Zola shows up it would be too much for the GA...I mean..Bucky and Steve being out of time is one thing but Zola too? too much convenience.
I isn't, to me, so much about Zola coming back, but rather that it'd be a a robot with a tv belly in a supposedly serious politico-espionage thriller.

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Old 12-19-2013, 07:31 AM   #909
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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I isn't, to me, so much about Zola coming back, but rather that it'd be a a robot with a tv belly in a supposedly serious politico-espionage thriller.
It'll be interesting to see how they portray Zola, but I'm positive he won't look like the comic-book version --- that's always been one of the goofiest supervillain costumes in Marvel history.

Instead, I think the key point to take from comic-book Zola will be "AI in android's body." "Android" covers a lot of ground, and could even indicate someone who appears completely human on the outside. As a fer-instance, the big reveal in CATWS could be that "Alexander Pierce" *is* that android, and Zola is the AI within. You know, in the vein of Stepford Wives, Westworld, and other 70s "androids."

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Old 12-19-2013, 08:08 AM   #910
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

I just want to see a close up of Batroc in HQ. Doing his costume should be easy to update. Go with a brown balaclava with sunglasses over it, a purple parka and track pants with a goatee.

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Old 12-19-2013, 08:26 AM   #911
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

I'd settle for Batroc in Low Def

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Old 12-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #912
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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It'll be interesting to see how they portray Zola, but I'm positive he won't look like the comic-book version --- that's always been one of the goofiest supervillain costumes in Marvel history.

Instead, I think the key point to take from comic-book Zola will be "AI in android's body." "Android" covers a lot of ground, and could even indicate someone who appears completely human on the outside. As a fer-instance, the big reveal in CATWS could be that "Alexander Pierce" *is* that android, and Zola is the AI within. You know, in the vein of Stepford Wives, Westworld, and other 70s "androids."
That's still pretty out there, though entirely within the realm of stuff Marvel would do.

I think what I mostly have a problem with as far as all these Zola as main villain scenarios is that, simply, I don't think he has it in him based on his appearance in CATFA. Though, again, I wouldn't put it past Marvel to just up and disregard prior portrayals.

I did find Tony Jones' hints to be of interesting wording, he basically said that Zola found a way to "defeat time". It's just an odd way to descibe... Anything.

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Old 12-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #913
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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That's still pretty out there, though entirely within the realm of stuff Marvel would do.

I think what I mostly have a problem with as far as all these Zola as main villain scenarios is that, simply, I don't think he has it in him based on his appearance in CATFA. Though, again, I wouldn't put it past Marvel to just up and disregard prior portrayals.

I did find Tony Jones' hints to be of interesting wording, he basically said that Zola found a way to "defeat time". It's just an odd way to descibe... Anything.
I'm sure Zola's changed a lot in 70 years, though, physically and psychologically. Sure, in WWII, he was "just" Red Skull's main henchman/mad scientist. But a lot has happened since then.

The way I see it is simple and plausible enough --- Zola remains in SHIELD employ when the SSR changes over, and becomes basically a Werner Von Braun-type....ex-Nazi now building tech for the Allies. Secretly, he remains in contact with the remnants of HYDRA over the years (AOS confirmed that many of them fled to South America after WWII, as did many other real-life Nazis), and dreams of one day rebuilding the organization. He becomes a close confidant of Howard Stark, and together they work on a "Project ULTRON" for SHIELD in secret. But before the project can be realized, Howard dies in that car accident, and Zola is left to handle the robot alone. During the course of all this experimentation in AI and robotics, he develops a sinister plan to make himself immortal by essentially becoming an AI himself, and implanting his consciousness in a robot. Thus, the seeds of Ultron are born.

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Old 12-19-2013, 10:36 AM   #914
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I don't completely disagree. Zola working for the SSR after the war makes sense, and even befriending Stark.

But mostly, I'm taking of Zola's characterization in CATFA. He isn't so much evil as he is amoral, and I got the sense that he wasn't particularly loyal to Hydra, but merely intimidated by Schmidt. You can see how he's not a regular Nazi or Hydra officer in a couple of instance; he finds the idea of assassinating Erskine distasteful, and pales at the idea of working the POWs to their deaths.

He's kind of just a guy who enjoys his field of science and happens to make weapons for Hydra because he's German, and Schmidt is not giving him much choice in the matter.

So once he's granted asylum by the US and goes to work for the SSR/SHIELD, I think he's less likely to plot the return of Hydra and more about creating weapons for the US in the cold war arms race.... And during this time, he draws the plans for Ultron.

And the plans/designs for Ultron are the MacGuffin in CATWS that Pierce and perhaps other parties are after.

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Old 12-19-2013, 10:52 AM   #915
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

It's been over 70 years since the end of WWII. That's plenty of time for his views/ideas to change, especially if he's found a way to "defy death." That could give someone a god complex.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #916
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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what
Just too much of a text wall to take serious. Sounds a lot like a former poster who used to post long walls of text like that in speculative threads.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:22 PM   #917
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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Just too much of a text wall to take serious. Sounds a lot like a former poster who used to post long walls of text like that in speculative threads.
Same guy, just a new handle. It's LokiD.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #918
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

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Same guy, just a new handle. It's LokiD.
I thought it sounded similar but I remember him using another handle or two so I wasn't completely sure. Man he's annoying as a speculator here.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:40 PM   #919
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

I don't understand why he keeps coming up with crazy theories and posting them. It's not even a good troll. Get a job or something.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #920
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

Watch out, you're treading on someones precious "speculation"

Except it's more like bad fanfic than speculation. Speculation implies a basis for your crazy ass theories.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #921
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He doesn't speculate, her fabricates...and badly...I mean...most of the things he comes up with would be absolutely terrible stories yet he seems so proud of them

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:45 PM   #922
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I picture him in a room with a bed and a mirror and the wall paper torn off and just scribbles on every surface

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:48 PM   #923
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

Vast reams of notebooks completely filled with barely legible scribbles.

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Old 12-19-2013, 02:58 PM   #924
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

A short while ago, today, there was a new set photo posted on the MCU facebook fanpage. Now it's apparently been removed. It showed... (VERY SPOILERY!)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Steve and Tony facing one another (and BW in the background).


EDIT:
NOPE, NVM, I just read that it had been photoshopped.
False Alarm! Carry on...

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Old 12-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #925
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 10

Where's the Jaqua Defense Squad?!

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