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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film
His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT. 27 20.45%
His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical. 30 22.73%
His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread. 32 24.24%
He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script 43 32.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #151
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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The cops did not help in defeating the aliens, they got scared of the aliens and they had to be saved themselves by Cap.

Hawkeye took out many many aliens and alien ships.
That is one of the problems with the avengers: Hawkeye contributes more to the final battle than the armed forces. That is too stupid to be treated as a political statement imo.

Avengers would be a better movie if Hawkeye had been killed early in that battle.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:13 PM   #152
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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That is one of the problems with the avengers: Hawkeye contributes more to the final battle than the armed forces. That is too stupid to be treated as a political statement imo.

Avengers would be a better movie if Hawkeye had been killed early in that battle.
Would you think the same about Widor too?

Hawkeye was atleast shooting arrows, Widow was shooting pistols.

I liked their inclusion as more human members. Even Cap was doing humble ground work and not insane heroics like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:15 PM   #153
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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That is one of the problems with the avengers: Hawkeye contributes more to the final battle than the armed forces. That is too stupid to be treated as a political statement imo.

Avengers would be a better movie if Hawkeye had been killed early in that battle.
I think the problem stemmed from having aliens that Hawkeye and Black Widow could handle. It wasn't believable to me that the world council would immediately go to the nuclear option when these guys could be taken out by conventional means.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #154
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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That is one of the problems with the avengers: Hawkeye contributes more to the final battle than the armed forces. That is too stupid to be treated as a political statement imo.

Avengers would be a better movie if Hawkeye had been killed early in that battle.
Then we'd have a pointless death of a character we've barely had time to invest in. I'm sure something like that might happen in the TA sequel, though.
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/08/2...-avenger-loki/

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:23 PM   #155
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Would you think the same about Widor too?

Hawkeye was atleast shooting arrows, Widow was shooting pistols.

I liked their inclusion as more human members. Even Cap was doing humble ground work and not insane heroics like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor.
It is one of the reasons the film fell apart on second viewing to me: if hawkeye could help, then earth was never really in danger. That is why the damage was limited in that movie, the chittauri are losers, an absolute plot hole.

Black Widow is apparently a super soldier, so she is not like Hawkeye.

Btw the military helped the avengers more thsn they helped superman. The movie ends with iron man firing a nuke, which is the most cliche and most pro military thing they can show. It is a deus ex nukina.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:23 PM   #156
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Would have been pretty great for the aliens if that bomb was dropped on the city(taking out the heroes as a bonus), only to have the entire fleet laying in wait.
Movies almost never justify a gov't dropping a nuke on one of their cities.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #157
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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It is one of the reasons the film fell apart on second viewing to me: if hawkeye could help, then earth was never really in danger. That is why the damage was limited in that movie, the chittauri are losers, an absolute plot hole.

Black Widow is apparently a super soldier, so she is not like Hawkeye.

Btw the military helped the avengers more thsn they helped superman. The movie ends with iron man firing a nuke, which is the most cliche and most pro military thing they can show. It is a deus ex nukina.
I don't think she's a super soldier…just an uber Whedon female.

The government wouldn't never go straight to the nuclear option without committing troops first.
The military helped Superman more than the Avengers

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #158
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Why would the military help the Avengers?

Sure they are the military but...


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Old 11-10-2013, 03:32 PM   #159
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Widow is not a super soldier. She is a normal human spy/assassin/field agent. She's very skilled for sure but she isn't superhuman or anything.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:33 PM   #160
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

^ All that leaping around Chitauri lasers kind of give off that impression

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #161
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Snyder remarks about the destruction in The Avengers is right on the money.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #162
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Apparently in the comics black widow is a super soldier, and so many fans expect that to be revealed in a future film. Either she is a super soldier or it is a plot hole.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #163
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Pretty sure I read she had enhancements in the source material. May have been ss serum isotope or something of that sort. Then again this might have been ultimates.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:52 PM   #164
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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I don't think she's a super soldier…just an uber Whedon female.

The government wouldn't never go straight to the nuclear option without committing troops first.
The military helped Superman more than the Avengers
Uber whedon female?

Buffy Summers, River Tam, and Echo are all "super soldiers".

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:55 PM   #165
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Pretty sure I read she had enhancements in the source material. May have been ss serum isotope or something of that sort. Then again this might have been ultimates.
Originally she was just a regular female but the retconned her into being a super soldier.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #166
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

How is she a plot hole? She did not do anything in the movie that couldn't be done by a trained skilled field agent.

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Old 11-10-2013, 04:00 PM   #167
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

And come on, with such a dazzlingly absurdly beautiful woman, they can show her doing whatever the hell they want and I will buy it. I guess most fellas would buy it.

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Old 11-10-2013, 11:44 PM   #168
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

i wonder why they didn't do a 'Hawkeye and Widow' movie. i think it will sell too due to the Avengers factor.

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Old 11-10-2013, 11:57 PM   #169
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

I am guessing Marvel probably only wants to do a few movies per year. If they produce every single good idea, they will destroy the market, maybe.

Who knows, marvel fanboys might be inclined to a dozen movies a year like Thor 2. They would start saying that they are marvel fans and not movie fans.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:20 AM   #170
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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i wonder why they didn't do a 'Hawkeye and Widow' movie. i think it will sell too due to the Avengers factor.
That's the(ir) mantra these days.

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Old 11-15-2013, 06:45 AM   #171
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Hmm why does everyone blame goyer for the "bad" parts of tdkt but praise Nolan for the best?

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:59 AM   #172
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

I really hope the script is better than MoS.
I mean, I liked Man of Steel...but it got a lot wrong too. It managed to capture the action of the character but it lacked the heart of him. Also, by not introducing Superman's major weakness it put him in a position to do something that really goes against who the character is. No Kryptonite, no way to capture Zod and hold him, forcing Superman to kill him...yet Superman is supposed to embody the best parts of humanity and be a symbol of hope. Yet the ending and the general way Superman presented himself was the opposite.

I would like to see the script for this film really grab hold on who Superman is...he's not supposed to be too dark...he should be Batman's opposite...while Batman works from the shadows Superman is the identity of hope and a symbol to look up to.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:05 AM   #173
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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I really hope the script is better than MoS.
I mean, I liked Man of Steel...but it got a lot wrong too. It managed to capture the action of the character but it lacked the heart of him. Also, by not introducing Superman's major weakness it put him in a position to do something that really goes against who the character is. No Kryptonite, no way to capture Zod and hold him, forcing Superman to kill him...yet Superman is supposed to embody the best parts of humanity and be a symbol of hope. Yet the ending and the general way Superman presented himself was the opposite.

I would like to see the script for this film really grab hold on who Superman is...he's not supposed to be too dark...he should be Batman's opposite...while Batman works from the shadows Superman is the identity of hope and a symbol to look up to.
There's a version of kryptonite in the movie. If they wanted to "lock up Zod", he would have been locked up in a room with infra red light, and maybe a Kryptonian atmosphere. They don't need the shiny green rock.

They told the ending they wanted to tell, not the ending they were forced into.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:38 AM   #174
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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I really hope the script is better than MoS.
I mean, I liked Man of Steel...but it got a lot wrong too. It managed to capture the action of the character but it lacked the heart of him. Also, by not introducing Superman's major weakness it put him in a position to do something that really goes against who the character is. No Kryptonite, no way to capture Zod and hold him, forcing Superman to kill him...yet Superman is supposed to embody the best parts of humanity and be a symbol of hope. Yet the ending and the general way Superman presented himself was the opposite.
How did he do the opposite? Facing impossible odds and saving the world from armageddon would technically be him doing just that no?

As long as he tried his best and the context supports that, I see no comprise. What's more is that this hope for superman to represent hope is even more outlined in his hope and drive to do better. Take superman's moment of repentance after the fact and contrast it with starks words directly after this conflict resolution:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The contrast alone speaks volumes about this issue. Superman isn't the same as this guys. He's 'better"
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There's a version of kryptonite in the movie. If they wanted to "lock up Zod", he would have been locked up in a room with infra red light, and maybe a Kryptonian atmosphere. They don't need the shiny green rock.

They told the ending they wanted to tell, not the ending they were forced into.
Curious at which point in zod's rampage superman could have coaxed zod into such a room(not sure where we are finding this thing). The other movie(sperman2) had such a room though, that one ended in the same result but without actually staging their writing properly.

Infra red light? When was that established?

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Old 11-15-2013, 06:34 PM   #175
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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I really hope the script is better than MoS.
I mean, I liked Man of Steel...but it got a lot wrong too. It managed to capture the action of the character but it lacked the heart of him. Also, by not introducing Superman's major weakness it put him in a position to do something that really goes against who the character is. No Kryptonite, no way to capture Zod and hold him, forcing Superman to kill him...yet Superman is supposed to embody the best parts of humanity and be a symbol of hope. Yet the ending and the general way Superman presented himself was the opposite.
You have got to listen to what Jor is saying.
"They will race behind you,they will stumble,they will fall." They sure do.

"But IN TIME they will join you in the son Kal..IN TIME you will help them accomplish wonders." He doesn't say Kal will bring them hope within the next day. He says twice that it will take time.

Everyone criticises the script but I thought it was great. Sure some bits were a little poop but it still gives me goosebumps when I watch it.

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