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Old 04-17-2015, 02:35 PM   #1
Fosterson
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Default Will Surtur suck?

I've been thinking long and hard about how Marvel should approach Surtur as a villain in the movie, and I'm really not that optimistic. I mean, how exactly can they possibly do a villain who is more than 1,000 feet tall without him seeming incredibly goofy and ridiculous in live-action? I fear that they might just turn him into an utterly characterless bad guy whose only purpose in the movie is to fight Thor. Please Marvel, don't give us another Malekith. I want Surtur to have purpose and a personality, but I don't see how they can do that when the guy is too large to fit on screen.

Marvel have really shown their true colours in recent months, with them giving Ragnarok, a new, unfavourable release date, in favour of yet another "Peter Parker got bitten by a radioactive spider" movie. I really think that Thor Ragnarok could already be on the road to disaster (I mean, being panned to the same degree as X-Men Origins), not to mention failing financially. Do you agree?

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Old 04-17-2015, 07:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Whoa! I don't think there is any reason to worry at this point. Especially about some of the things you mention here. We don't know anything about the movie other than the title and the writers. Let's wait until we get a director, the synopsis, find out what thor does at the end of AoU... we don't even know if Surtur will be in the movie. I hope he is, and based on everything that Feige has said about the importance of this film and care they are going to give it leaves me very optimistic.

In short: Surtur could very well not suck!

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Old 04-17-2015, 08:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

I agree with seahammer, and will add that Marvel is still making Ragnarok the most important movie of phase three when it comes to the overall plot, so they are certainly not treating it poorly by any information we currently have.

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Old 04-17-2015, 11:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Wow! Such negativity. Feige has said that this film is their Winter Soldier of Phase 3 and recently has said that they had plans for all possibilities in case Spider-Man came back or didn't come back. That says to me that their plans have not changed. I'm not worried in the least.

Further Marvel is getting better at their craft and is going from strength to strength. They will find the right talent for this film. If you don't believe it watch the new Daredevil series. It totally blew me away. Marvel knows what they are doing.

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Old 04-17-2015, 11:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

I'm sick of the whining about Malekith honestly. They cut his scenes to make more room for Loki. Whatever added characterization there was ended up on the cutting room floor. Not the end of the world. The relationship between Thor and Loki is more important anyway. Malekith was always kind of a lame villain IMO. One of my least favorite Thor villains. At least in the movie they didn't make him weakened by iron! LOL.

Surtur on the other hand is a force of the universe, crafty and malevolent and one of the most important villains in Thor's rogue's gallery. Look at how masterfully they've brought Loki to life. They will not screw up Surtur. I don't believe it for a second.

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Old 04-18-2015, 04:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnaroknroll View Post
I'm sick of the whining about Malekith honestly. They cut his scenes to make more room for Loki. Whatever added characterization there was ended up on the cutting room floor. Not the end of the world. The relationship between Thor and Loki is more important anyway. Malekith was always kind of a lame villain IMO. One of my least favorite Thor villains. At least in the movie they didn't make him weakened by iron! LOL.

Surtur on the other hand is a force of the universe, crafty and malevolent and one of the most important villains in Thor's rogue's gallery. Look at how masterfully they've brought Loki to life. They will not screw up Surtur. I don't believe it for a second.
The villain is extremely important in a superhero movie. Therefore, the cutting of Malekith's scenes made him essentially a brick, whose only purpose was to fight Thor in some action sequences. I'm not saying that Ragnarok is destined to fail; I'm merely saying that if they repeat the same mistakes they made with The Dark World in this movie, then they could be in real trouble.

Me, I'm keeping my expectations exceedingly low until we here more about the casting and the director. I let my expectations get too high with Thor 2 and was disappointed. I'm not letting that happen again.

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Old 04-18-2015, 06:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

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Originally Posted by Ragnaroknroll View Post
I'm sick of the whining about Malekith honestly. They cut his scenes to make more room for Loki. Whatever added characterization there was ended up on the cutting room floor. Not the end of the world. The relationship between Thor and Loki is more important anyway. Malekith was always kind of a lame villain IMO. One of my least favorite Thor villains. At least in the movie they didn't make him weakened by iron! LOL.
Yes to this. I've said this elsewhere: the biggest mistake regarding Malekith was making him the villain in the first place! He was never that interesting in the comics, and didn't have much of a story. If I remember correctly, he only had one short story arc in the comics anyway (until after the movie came out, and now he's being used a lot more). They had already used his "big thing" in the first movie, with the Casket of Ancient Winters. That meant that they had really nothing to draw from but a name. Nobody calls him "Malekith in Name Only" because nobody cares/knows about who he was in the comics. People complain about his role being cut down, but the truth is they should have used a more compelling villain to begin with. Then at least people's complaints of the villain being a let down because of cut screen time would feel more valid.

That's not to say he couldn't have been done better, but like you, he was always among my least favorite Thor villains. They made movie Malekith more interesting and with more backstory than in the comics, despite having a scene or two cut.

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Old 04-18-2015, 06:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

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Originally Posted by Fosterson View Post
I'm merely saying that if they repeat the same mistakes they made with The Dark World in this movie, then they could be in real trouble.
I think that Feige & Co. are acutely aware of this, and will do their darnedest NOT to repeat the same mistakes.

Quote:
Me, I'm keeping my expectations exceedingly low until we here more about the casting and the director. I let my expectations get too high with Thor 2 and was disappointed. I'm not letting that happen again.
I have a feeling this happened to a lot of people, TBH. It's a shame. And it will probably happen to a lot of people with AoU as well.

For me: I remember walking out of the first Thor movie (which I got to see at a special screening a few days before the release, where they had Thor trivia contest and I won some stuff, where I got interviewed for a film review after the movie), and being on cloud 9. My expectations were greatly exceeded by that film, and I told myself that if that is the only Thor movie they ever make, I wouldn't complain. The fact that we are getting more is just icing on the cake. Of course I want them to be high quality, but I'm not going to let myself be let down: I've already gotten a great Thor movie.

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Old 04-18-2015, 08:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

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Originally Posted by seahammer View Post
I think that Feige & Co. are acutely aware of this, and will do their darnedest NOT to repeat the same mistakes.



I have a feeling this happened to a lot of people, TBH. It's a shame. And it will probably happen to a lot of people with AoU as well.

For me: I remember walking out of the first Thor movie (which I got to see at a special screening a few days before the release, where they had Thor trivia contest and I won some stuff, where I got interviewed for a film review after the movie), and being on cloud 9. My expectations were greatly exceeded by that film, and I told myself that if that is the only Thor movie they ever make, I wouldn't complain. The fact that we are getting more is just icing on the cake. Of course I want them to be high quality, but I'm not going to let myself be let down: I've already gotten a great Thor movie.
You are right. I'm sure people are going to be disappointed with Age of Ultron no matter how good it is. People set themselves up for disappointment around here a lot it seems but it's not how I personally try to go through life. These are just movies after all. I mean I'm incredibly disappointed with what DC is doing with Superman and Fox is doing with Fantastic Four (two of my favorite comic characters growing up) but it is what it is. On the flip side Marvel gets far more right than they get wrong IMO. They've earned my good will as a result.

And I know it's popular to hate on Thor 2 these days but I still really love that movie. I walked out of the movie loving it from day one. I've always been dumbfounded by the hate but I'm done preaching its virtues. I'm not going to change other people's minds and don't need to. But a lot of the complaints to me about these movies smack of entitlement and failure to appreciate how hard it is to bring these often-ridiculous characters to the big screen. A talking racoon and tree? GOTG could have been a colossal disaster. But it wasn't. It was great. Same with Thor's foray into film. Seriously - a flying magic-hammer-wielding space god? I grew up with films like the atrocious early Batman movies and films like Mystery Men which (while funny at times) just totally discredited the genre and its potential. Whereas IMO Marvel has already given me two utterly perfect incarnations of Thor and Loki and now Feige has announced that they plan on taking Thor to "another level" with his next film. What's not to cheer for?

Marvel is really trying here folks. They're still a young film company and they're getting better. I'm still on Cloud 9 seeing these characters that I loved as a kid leap from the page with the same love and care and to see them evolve in new and interesting ways.

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Old 04-18-2015, 08:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

^ Excellent post, R&R! 'Nuff said!

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Old 04-18-2015, 08:35 AM   #11
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you are right. I'm sure people are going to be disappointed with age of ultron no matter how good it is. People set themselves up for disappointment around here a lot it seems but it's not how i personally try to go through life. These are just movies after all. I mean i'm incredibly disappointed with what dc is doing with superman and fox is doing with fantastic four (two of my favorite comic characters growing up) but it is what it is. On the flip side marvel gets far more right than they get wrong imo. They've earned my good will as a result.

And i know it's popular to hate on thor 2 these days but i still really love that movie. I walked out of the movie loving it from day one. I've always been dumbfounded by the hate but i'm done preaching its virtues. I'm not going to change other people's minds and don't need to. But a lot of the complaints to me about these movies smack of entitlement and failure to appreciate how hard it is to bring these often-ridiculous characters to the big screen. A talking racoon and tree? Gotg could have been a colossal disaster. But it wasn't. It was great. Same with thor's foray into film. Seriously - a flying magic-hammer-wielding space god? I grew up with films like the atrocious early batman movies and films like mystery men which (while funny at times) just totally discredited the genre and its potential. Whereas imo marvel has already given me two utterly perfect incarnations of thor and loki and now feige has announced that they plan on taking thor to "another level" with his next film. What's not to cheer for?

Marvel is really trying here folks. They're still a young film company and they're getting better. I'm still on cloud 9 seeing these characters that i loved as a kid leap from the page with the same love and care and to see them evolve in new and interesting ways.
qft

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Old 04-18-2015, 01:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

TDW was not a Box office flop, I made over 640 Million WW..
Most studios would give their right arm for those numbers..
And from what I have heard we get one hell of a Holy Sh** scene from Thor in AOU.

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Old 04-18-2015, 02:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Surtur really isn't that hard to get right. He's basically a force of nature, destined to destroy Asgard. He doesn't need much development. It's whoever releases him that needs the more in-depth characterization.

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Old 04-18-2015, 02:24 PM   #14
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^ Excellent post, R&R! 'Nuff said!
Aw thanks!

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Old 04-18-2015, 02:26 PM   #15
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TDW was not a Box office flop, I made over 640 Million WW..
Most studios would give their right arm for those numbers..
And from what I have heard we get one hell of a Holy Sh** scene from Thor in AOU.
Say no more! ack! Spoilers... Runs away...

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Old 04-29-2015, 07:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

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That's not to say he couldn't have been done better, but like you, he was always among my least favorite Thor villains. They made movie Malekith more interesting and with more backstory than in the comics, despite having a scene or two cut.
Look they had a responsibility and the failed. Mr Freeze used to be a terrible Batman villain and then Bruce Timm rebuilt him from the ground up.

A more Marvel example?

Loki himself is far more sympathetic then this comic book counterpart prior to the first Thor movie.

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Old 04-29-2015, 11:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

I see no reason foe the negativity. I think Marvel will do everything to get ragnarok right!

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Old 05-03-2015, 12:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Am I missing something? When was Surtur confirmed?

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Old 05-03-2015, 01:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

You aren't missing anything. We have still heard nothing about the film other than the title. This is just speculation.

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Old 05-03-2015, 03:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Just make him look kinda like the Balrog from LOTR, people accepted that just fine.

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Old 05-03-2015, 04:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

I'm not sure, to be honest I'll be a little surprised if they even use him.

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Old 05-04-2015, 01:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Seems like a challenge to do the Ragnarok storyline without Surtur. Why would you even bother?

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Old 05-04-2015, 03:47 AM   #23
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Seems like a challenge to do the Ragnarok storyline without Surtur. Why would you even bother?
Exactly. It would be like X-Men Days of Future Past having not had Sentinels in it.

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Old 05-11-2015, 05:11 PM   #24
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

I am worried that Sutur will be this kind of villain:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...oomsdayVillain

Which is what Malekith was in Thor 2. Malekith was so much more threatening in the comics.

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Old 05-11-2015, 05:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: Will Surtur suck?

Probably.

The odds are most definitely in the favor of "suck"

There have been approximately 2 - 3 good fleshed out villains in the MCU, depending on your taste and what you consider "McinematicU." Loki, the Pierce/Winter Soldier combo, and Kingpin.

That being said, Thor already got his good villain. So "suck" will likely prevail.

I mean, the only way Surtur gets ahead is if he gets as much, if not more, screentime than Thor and Loki. Which definitely won't happen if they want to sell tickets. idk man... just my two cents.

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