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Old 11-10-2013, 07:35 AM   #951
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

Given the amount of humour complaints I'm wonder where peoples expectations for Guardians are right now.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:37 AM   #952
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Given the amount of humour complaints I'm wonder where peoples expectations for Guardians are right now.
Well I'm not entirely familiar with Gunn's work, but if the post credit scene is a indication of what we can expect, I'm not looking exactly thrilled about it either.

I don't think it's really the amount of humor within this film that's the problem but where the humor was placed that ends up being the problem.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:39 AM   #953
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Well I'm not entirely familiar with Gunn's work, but if the post credit scene is a indication of what we can expect, I'm not looking exactly thrilled about it either.

I don't think it's really the amount of humor within this film that's the problem but where the humor was placed that ends up being the problem.
For me the humour is ironic in that I'm actually glad it's there because it covers so many weakness in the movie for me.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:39 AM   #954
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Agreed; heck, look at how Iron Man 2 suffered from them wanting to get that film out so quickly after the success of Iron Man 1 and how they influenced in what the story ended up being in the end.

Also, the post-credit scene for Guardians did not give me any confidence that Guardians is in good hands since I thought it was terribly shot and done; came off more as a regular Sci-Fi channel film.

I've read and even experiences audiences having a "WTF" expression/reaction to that scene.
Funnily enough I didnt find the mid-credits scene that bad, was expecting worse after the internet reports but found it okay personally. This time last year GOTG was my most anticipated CBM of 2014 because I am a huge fan of the characters. Gunn is a good pick as director as well. But you just know its going to have the same tropes as the other MCU movies and this has brought down both IM3 and TDW in my eyes. They havent aimed high enough in Phase II for me, it all seems too safe which I find very disappointing. I just dont find myself getting as excited for MCU movies anymore.

Agreed about IM2 as well, another one they meddled with and actually fell out with Favreau over, but later made up. It had studio interference written all over it and suffered greatly because of it.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:43 AM   #955
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For me the humour is ironic in that I'm actually glad it's there because it covers so many weakness in the movie for me.
True, though I'd also argue that it accidentally covered up some of the strengths as well.lol

I mean Frigga's and Loki's deaths, along with the final battle could have been better with some of the inappropriately placed humor that either followed them or were in them.

I also think that ending the 2 year war at the start of the film was a bad idea and that they should have taken advantage of that concept by having it go on throughout the film, where people in both the film and the audiences would learn on how the other realms exactly view both Asgard and Odin's ruling over them.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:52 AM   #956
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

I've actually been trying to work out why I've been so forgiving of this film, especially when it came to the humour. It dawned on me today actually the point early in the film whereby Jane just happens to stumble into the other dimension and comes in contact with the Aether is where subconsciously my brain just switched off, because looking back it was such a silly and half baked piece of plot convenience. It's like really? That's the best you could come up with? I can accept plot convenience on occasion when there's an attempt to justify it but it was almost as if they didn't bother to try in this - and that's when part of my brain just shouted 'that's it, I'm outta here'. lol

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:54 AM   #957
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

The humor makes you laugh in the moment and covers for the failings in character and writing, but a good portion of it isn't so smart in retrospective.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:03 AM   #958
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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I've actually been trying to work out why I've been so forgiving of this film, especially when it came to the humour. It dawned on me today actually the point early in the film whereby Jane just happens to stumble into the other dimension and comes in contact with the Aether is where subconsciously my brain just switched off, because looking back it was such a silly and half baked piece of plot convenience. It's like really? That's the best you could come up with? I can accept plot convenience on occasion when there's an attempt to justify it but it was almost as if they didn't bother to try in this - and that's when part of my brain just shouted 'that's it, I'm outta here'. lol
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I hated the humor. It was one of the worst aspects. Honestly, if this weren't a Marvel movie, if it were....National Treasure 3, people would be dragging the humor over the coals. Every time anything significant happened, there was a tagged on Kat Dennings one liner. EVERY TIME. The lines weren't even funny, they were just corny. It is exactly like the Justin Bartha character in National Treasure. It completely takes the viewer out of the film. Frigga dies? Don't worry, Kat Dennings is going to make a joke! Thor takes JAne to Asgard...wait for it...ZIIIIIIING! It is just offputting. At least in the first movie her humor came naturally. This time it just felt forced. Hell, quite a few of her lines, she wasn't even on screen. That character was easily the worst part of the movie.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:04 AM   #959
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I hated the humor. It was one of the worst aspects. Honestly, if this weren't a Marvel movie, if it were....National Treasure 3, people would be dragging the humor over the coals. Every time anything significant happened, there was a tagged on Kat Dennings one liner. EVERY TIME. The lines weren't even funny, they were just corny. It is exactly like the Justin Bartha character in National Treasure. It completely takes the viewer out of the film. Frigga dies? Don't worry, Kat Dennings is going to make a joke! Thor takes JAne to Asgard...wait for it...ZIIIIIIING! It is just offputting. At least in the first movie her humor came naturally. This time it just felt forced. Hell, quite a few of her lines, she wasn't even on screen. That character was easily the worst part of the movie.
They really took advantage of the good response to Darcy in the first film.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:05 AM   #960
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Given the amount of humour complaints I'm wonder where peoples expectations for Guardians are right now.
I expect GotG to have plenty of humor and to be advertised as such, unlike TDW and IM3.

When I saw the trailers for IM3 and TDW they fooled me into believing some heavy stuff was gonna go down. I remember Tony laying in the snow, suit damaged, face bloodied, mansion blown up, music dour. Yeah, not the movie they delivered, in the slightest. Same thing with TDW that's two for two. I'd be a fool to expect CATWS to be as serious as the trailer is making it out to be.

But with GotG I'm expecting a fair amount of comedy so when it turns out to be that way in the final product, I won't complain.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:08 AM   #961
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

It isn't just the ads. Look at the nature, the concept of the stories. These feel like they should be more intense, more concerning stories, as opposed to mostly fun romps.

I think there is this idea that if a film takes itself a bit more seriously, there is no comedy. I don't believe that at all. It is simply a different kind of comedy, something more well timed. The comedy in the first phase of Marvel seemed pretty appropriate. It wasn't always good or well timed, but in general it was used to better effect.

Now it really feels like they have gone the route of "Brisk and fun". More disposable, manufactured filmmaking?

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:09 AM   #962
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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I expect GotG to have plenty of humor and to be advertised as such, unlike TDW and IM3.

When I saw the trailers for IM3 and TDW they fooled us into believing some heavy stuff was going down. I remember Tony laying in the snow, suit damaged, face bloodied, music dour. Not the movie they delivered, in the slightest. Same thing with TDW that's two for two. I'd be a fool to expect CATWS to be a serious as the trailer is making it out to be.

But with GotG I'm expecting a fair amount of comedy so when it turns out to be that way in the final product, I won't complain.
Agreed with all of this, but GOTG is the one movie were comedy SHOULD be there in spades, as it is in the comics. IM3 and TDW had far too much comedy but GOTG having their level will be fine.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:11 AM   #963
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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It isn't just the ads. Look at the nature, the concept of the stories. These feel like they should be more intense, more concerning stories, as opposed to fun romps.

I think there is this idea that if a film takes itself a bit more seriously, there is no comedy. I don't believe that at all. It is simply a different kind of comedy, something more well timed. The comedy in the first phase of Marvel seemed pretty appropriate. It wasn't always good or well timed, but in general it was used to better effect.

Now it really feels like they have gone the route of "Brisk and fun".
Couldnt agree with this more, with the stories they have told in IM3 and Thor 2, there just shouldnt have been that amount of comedic moments, the final battles in both movies have it the worst. In both, major **** is going down or about too and people are making casual jokes. Thor 2 was actually worse for this as the whole freaking universe was on the verge of ending!

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:12 AM   #964
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Agreed with all of this, but GOTG is the one movie were comedy SHOULD be there in spades, as it is in the comics. IM3 and TDW had far too much comedy but GOTG having their level will be fine.
GotG should be strange imo. It should feel like it has a screw loose. And that is what they have promised this phase, to make the films very genre based. TWS is spy thriller, but if it ends up with the tone of IM3 or TDW, I honestly won't know what to say.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:13 AM   #965
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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I've actually been trying to work out why I've been so forgiving of this film, especially when it came to the humour. It dawned on me today actually the point early in the film whereby Jane just happens to stumble into the other dimension and comes in contact with the Aether is where subconsciously my brain just switched off, because looking back it was such a silly and half baked piece of plot convenience. It's like really? That's the best you could come up with? I can accept plot convenience on occasion when there's an attempt to justify it but it was almost as if they didn't bother to try in this - and that's when part of my brain just shouted 'that's it, I'm outta here'. lol
There's plot conveniences where you need to turn off your brain in most CBM's though. Iron Man, The Dark Knight, The Avengers, Man of Steel, X-Men 2 etc. Some even more unlikely than the one in TDW.

To me the biggest thing to get right with that is to make the movie's tone to go along with it. It's easier for me to accept something like that if the movie doesn't take itself too seriously.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:15 AM   #966
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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It isn't just the ads. Look at the nature, the concept of the stories. These feel like they should be more intense, more concerning stories, as opposed to mostly fun romps.

I think there is this idea that if a film takes itself a bit more seriously, there is no comedy. I don't believe that at all. It is simply a different kind of comedy, something more well timed. The comedy in the first phase of Marvel seemed pretty appropriate. It wasn't always good or well timed, but in general it was used to better effect.

Now it really feels like they have gone the route of "Brisk and fun". More disposable, manufactured filmmaking?
I think it all comes down to type of comedy. In The Avengers, during the final action sequence, when Hulk punches Thor, it is abrupt, it is funny, it is consistent with the characters but it in no way takes the viewer out of the intensity of the scene.

Conversely, the humor in this doesn't come naturally. It is pre-recorded Kat Dennings dialogue inserted into the film in post-production and Erik having any credibility he has as a character stripped away from him. There is nothing natural about it and it isn't consistent with what is happening in the film.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:17 AM   #967
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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There's plot conveniences where you need to turn off your brain in most CBM's though. Iron Man, The Dark Knight, The Avengers, Man of Steel, X-Men 2 etc. Some even more unlikely than the one in TDW.

To me the biggest thing to get right with that is to make the movie's tone to go along with it. It's easier for me to accept something like that if the movie doesn't take itself too seriously.
There is a difference between plot conveniences for the sake of moving along the plot and MASSIVE conveniences/coincidences being used to push the plot forward (i.e. the portal, Jane finding the Aether, etc)

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:17 AM   #968
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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There's plot conveniences where you need to turn off your brain in most CBM's though. Iron Man, The Dark Knight, The Avengers, Man of Steel, X-Men 2 etc. Some even more unlikely than the one in TDW.

To me the biggest thing to get right with that is to make the movie's tone to go along with it. It's easier for me to accept something like that if the movie doesn't take itself too seriously.
The difference here is that it wasn't even masked. It was just - here's Jane, she somehow gets sucked into another realm, she gets infected with the gooy Mcguffin....enjoy! Good night brain!

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:19 AM   #969
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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GotG should be strange imo. It should feel like it has a screw loose. And that is what they have promised this phase, to make the films very genre based. TWS is spy thriller, but if it ends up with the tone of IM3 or TDW, I honestly won't know what to say.
Well my initial excitement for TWS has died down considerably once I remembered how dark the trailers for IM3 and Thor 2 made them look and then the movies themselves were far from it. I honestly wont be surprised now if TWS turns out the same.

And yeah, GOTG should be strange and comedic, as the comics are both regularly, although they get suitably serious when they need too.

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I think it all comes down to type of comedy. In The Avengers, during the final action sequence, when Hulk punches Thor, it is abrupt, it is funny, it is consistent with the characters but it in no way takes the viewer out of the intensity of the scene.

Conversely, the humor in this doesn't come naturally. It is pre-recorded Kat Dennings dialogue inserted into the film in post-production and Erik having any credibility he has as a character stripped away from him. There is nothing natural about it and it isn't consistent with what is happening in the film.
Agreed, the comedy in Avengers was both natural and did not come at inappropriate times, both IM3 and Thor 2 have had comedic moments that have ruined what are supposed to be powerful and emotional moments, its jut becoming far too much.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:28 AM   #970
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The difference here is that it wasn't even masked. It was just - here's Jane, she somehow gets sucked into another realm, she gets infected with the gooy Mcguffin....enjoy! Good night brain!
It's "masked" by that she goes there because her research is about that and there's readings on it. Not less hidden than that, for example, the Joker can infiltrate a police parade just because he's not wearing make up. No police ever thinks "hey, there's a new guy. His scars looks very similar to the distinct ones of the most wanted criminal in the city". The TDW thing actually seems more likely, despite that it's completely out there.

Both requires shutting your brain off. It's not a graduate thing. Complete off.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:30 AM   #971
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I think it all comes down to type of comedy. In The Avengers, during the final action sequence, when Hulk punches Thor, it is abrupt, it is funny, it is consistent with the characters but it in no way takes the viewer out of the intensity of the scene.

Conversely, the humor in this doesn't come naturally. It is pre-recorded Kat Dennings dialogue inserted into the film in post-production and Erik having any credibility he has as a character stripped away from him. There is nothing natural about it and it isn't consistent with what is happening in the film.
And I think this comes down to how manufactured Marvel wanted it compared to Taylor. There is almost like two different films fighting each other at times. Taylor was attempting to create his version of a Thor film, while MS were trying to make the next "Marvel Studios" movie. That is why I feel the comedy was way out of place, and why I still like the film in-spite of itself.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:36 AM   #972
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It's "masked" by that she goes there because her research is about that and there's readings on it. Not less hidden than that, for example, the Joker can infiltrate a police parade just because he's not wearing make up. No police ever thinks "hey, there's a new guy. His scars looks very similar to the distinct ones of the most wanted criminal in the city". The TDW thing actually seems more likely, despite that it's completely out there.

Both requires shutting your brain off. It's not a graduate thing. Complete off.
There is a big, big difference. The Joker got rid of a lot of the cops, in favor of his own plants. There was no one there to recognize him. The public aren't looking for him, and who would expect such a thing other then the cops? And they are put out of commission. Thus, plausible enough imo. Also, it is keeping within the story. The Joker doing the unexpected and brazen to incite fear.

But Jane finding the Aether is straight up, "we need her in the film and need a reason to get her to Asgard". You can have the same exact plot, and cut her and her buddies out, and it arguably be a much better film.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:36 AM   #973
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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It's "masked" by that she goes there because her research is about that and there's readings on it. Not less hidden than that, for example, the Joker can infiltrate a police parade just because he's not wearing make up. No police ever thinks "hey, there's a new guy. His scars looks very similar to the distinct ones of the most wanted criminal in the city". The TDW thing actually seems more likely, despite that it's completely out there.

Both requires shutting your brain off. It's not a graduate thing. Complete off.
I always find it amusing people when bring up something from The Dark Knight to justify a bad piece of story telling in another superhero film.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:43 AM   #974
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON View Post
Agreed, the comedy in Avengers was both natural and did not come at inappropriate times, both IM3 and Thor 2 have had comedic moments that have ruined what are supposed to be powerful and emotional moments, its jut becoming far too much.
Another thing I feel is becoming too much is Stan Lee. Honestly, its reached the point where his cameos are distractions. This one really sticks out. It is a lot like the one in Cap. It is an otherwise useless scene with the sole purpose of saying, "HEY EVERYONE! ITS STAN LEE!"

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Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
And I think this comes down to how manufactured Marvel wanted it compared to Taylor. There is almost like two different films fighting each other at times. Taylor was attempting to create his version of a Thor film, while MS were trying to make the next "Marvel Studios" movie. That is why I feel the comedy was way out of place, and why I still like the film in-spite of itself.
It feels like in the post-Whedon Marvel era, everyone is trying to be Whedon. But Whedon's humor, while very on the head, is also in its own way subtle and clever. Another writer/director can't be Joss Whedon. Marvel needs to let Shane Black set his own tone, Alan Taylor set his own tone, etc. Feige shouldn't tell these guys to be Joss Whedon. If he wants Joss Whedon to direct every Marvel movie, he needs to hire Joss Whedon to direct every Marvel movie.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:49 AM   #975
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
It feels like in the post-Whedon Marvel era, everyone is trying to be Whedon. But Whedon's humor, while very on the head, is also in its own way subtle and clever. Another writer/director can't be Joss Whedon. Marvel needs to let Shane Black set his own tone, Alan Taylor set his own tone, etc. Feige shouldn't tell these guys to be Joss Whedon. If he wants Joss Whedon to direct every Marvel movie, he needs to hire Joss Whedon to direct every Marvel movie.
Good way of putting it. I give them credit for hiring strong directors, but what is the point is they are going to be fighting the script the entire time? Most of these people can't write the way Joss does anyways. His humor is very interwoven into the entire script and is thus quite nature. While sometimes it feels like the characters are talking like Joss, he avoids that problem well in the Avengers. He basically places himself as the voice of Tony, who is a nature fit, and really sticks to everyones traits.

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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Another thing I feel is becoming too much is Stan Lee. Honestly, its reached the point where his cameos are distractions. This one really sticks out. It is a lot like the one in Cap. It is an otherwise useless scene with the sole purpose of saying, "HEY EVERYONE! ITS STAN LEE!"
I am very, very curious what it will be in TWS.

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