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Old 11-06-2013, 12:36 AM   #26
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 6

I think he's come a long way since the early 2000s. Like Ben Affleck, he's recently become a more respected actor, but his past still taints his name for many people, and they ignore his talent because of a bias against his past

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Old 11-06-2013, 12:44 AM   #27
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 6

I was unaware that he was a respected actor at all. Ever. From what movie are people basing this on?

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Old 11-06-2013, 12:51 AM   #28
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The Rock as Luthor?

HAHAHAHA

I see The Rock as someone like...Deathstroke?

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:00 AM   #29
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I was unaware that he was a respected actor at all. Ever. From what movie are people basing this on?
What I said is that he is more respected now than he was in the early 2000s as an actor.

And he was a lead in the #3 grossing movie this year, that demands a bit of respect

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 5

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Herolee's question was about a role the Rock has done which shows him giving a great performance. You did distinguish the roles, however, using his wrestling persona as a half-justifiable answer to the question is what I had a problem with. When I think of great performance(At least, great enough to play Luthor), I don't imagine the Rock being one of them.
You may not like the answer, but it's a perfectly valid one for the question. "The Rock" is a completely fabricated persona and every single one of his appearances counts as a performance. He reads from a script, he ad-libs, he's acting in front of a camera, he's selling a role. Under what qualifiers are you looking at that it apparently doesn't count? The fact people can't even call him Dwayne before calling him Rock, is a testament to how cemented the persona has been in the public consciousness.

He was the face of a multi-billion dollar industry for over two decades, single-handedly taking over the entertainment space in a manner I'd argue no one since then has done. You can scoff that it's just "wrestling", but The Rock is undeniably one of the modern era pop icons who is as memorable as he is quotable by millions of people. Exactly how many actors can make this claim with any of their roles?

I'll repeat; I wouldn't want him in the role. But I sure as hell am not turning away from an incredible feat he pulled off.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:10 AM   #31
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What I said is that he is more respected now than he was in the early 2000s as an actor.

And he was a lead in the #3 grossing movie this year, that demands a bit of respect
Right. So nothing based on acting.

I think I'll just make myself feel better by assuming this rock thing is fake. Yes, no need to get worked up. All fake.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:17 AM   #32
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You may not like the answer, but it's a perfectly valid one for the question. "The Rock" is a completely fabricated persona and every single one of his appearances counts as a performance. He reads from a script, he ad-libs, he's acting in front of a camera, he's selling a role. Under what qualifiers are you looking at that it apparently doesn't count? The fact people can't even call him Dwayne before calling him Rock, is a testament to how cemented the persona has been in the public consciousness.

He was the face of a multi-billion dollar industry for over two decades, single-handedly taking over the entertainment space in a manner I'd argue no one since then has done. You can scoff that it's just "wrestling", but The Rock is undeniably one of the modern era pop icons who is as memorable as he is quotable by millions of people. Exactly how many actors can make this claim with any of their roles?

I'll repeat; I wouldn't want him in the role. But I sure as hell am not turning away from an incredible feat he pulled off.
My point is that the Rock is not a role that requires an actor of great skill. Because lord knows he didn't have to act his ass off in that role. His charisma as the Rock is what has made the role famous, but that does not directly translate into what he would be like in the role of Luthor. A role like the Rock, no matter how you look at it, is not a proper launching point into the layered role of Lex Luthor.


That's like someone thinking Terry Bollea should play Odin just because of his highly charismatic career as Hulk Hogan. And even then, I'd rather have Hogan as Odin than Rock as Luthor.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:19 AM   #33
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Right. So nothing based on acting.

I think I'll just make myself feel better by assuming this rock thing is fake. Yes, no need to get worked up. All fake.
Exactly. The man has nothing in his acting credentials that even whispers "Lex Luthor".

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:30 AM   #34
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My point is that the Rock is not a role that requires an actor of great skill. Because lord knows he didn't have to act his ass off in that role. His charisma as the Rock is what has made the role famous, but that does not directly translate into what he would be like in the role of Luthor. A role like the Rock, no matter how you look at it, is not a proper launching point into the layered role of Lex Luthor.

That's like someone thinking Terry Bollea should play Odin just because of his highly charismatic career as Hulk Hogan. And even then, I'd rather have Hogan as Odin than Rock as Luthor.
Hulk was an energetic brawler, with very little beyond his image. It was a different time. Rock took it to an entirely new level by molding his character through various scenarios, settings, and character interactions. It's not even remotely the same league as it was unprecedented for that time. He fathered/mastered the catchphrase game and playing to the crowd. To this day people can finish his sentences if he starts off with a familiar quote.

I gotta admit, it's a little mind-boggling you can so easily dismiss what he pulled off. If it was so damn easy, you'd have a dozen other successful clones out by now. I invite anyone to name another entertainment figure which had as much notoriety and longevity as Rock did in his prime. That list would be very short, if it exists at all.

We can speak of Dwayne's lack of versatility in other roles. I'd likely even agree. But The Rock? I'm not unashamed to say I'd bow down to that utterly perfect creation. It's a damn fine performance, regardless of what medium it dominated in. I doubt there will ever be a strong campaign for him in any prominent comic book role, but please let's not pretend the man doesn't have talent to act when his entire career was propelled precisely because of it. It's not impossible to think he's not fit for a part while still giving credit where its due.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:36 AM   #35
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Hulk was an energetic brawler, with very little beyond his image. It was a different time. Rock took it to an entirely new level by molding his character through various scenarios, settings, and character interactions. It's not even remotely the same league as it was unprecedented for that time. He fathered/mastered the catchphrase game and playing to the crowd. To this day people can finish his sentences if he starts off with a familiar quote.

I gotta admit, it's a little mind-boggling you can so easily dismiss what he pulled off. If it was so damn easy, you'd have a dozen other successful clones out by now. I invite anyone to name another entertainment figure which had as much notoriety and longevity as Rock did in his prime. That list would be very short, if it exists at all.

We can speak of Dwayne's lack of versatility in other roles. I'd likely even agree. But The Rock? I'm not unashamed to say I'd bow down to that utterly perfect creation. It's a damn fine performance, regardless of what medium it dominated in. I doubt there will ever be a strong campaign for him in any prominent comic book role, but please let's not pretend the man doesn't have talent to act when his entire career was propelled precisely because of it.

Good lord. Where did I ever say he turned in a crappy performance as the Rock? Read my posts. I said that his charisma, not his acting skills, is what made the role so popular...which is true. Not a lot of guys have Dwayne's charisma. My sole point to you is the Rock is not a proper judging point for Luthor. Not even close. And with that, I'm done with this back-and-forth. Not going to repeat myself again.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:39 AM   #36
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 6

The Rock could work as Metallo definitely not Luthor though.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:40 AM   #37
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 6

I'd be down with the Rock as Black Adam. Metallo I'd imagine being a white guy.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:42 AM   #38
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Yeah that'd be good too. I do think Johnson could do a good iteration of John Byrne's Metallo though. Angry con man turned cyborg. That's within his range of acting.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:43 AM   #39
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That definitely does sound like something he could pull off.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:43 AM   #40
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Good lord. Where did I ever say he turned in a crappy performance as the Rock? Read my posts. I said that his charisma, not his acting skills, is what made the role so popular...which is true. Not a lot of guys have Dwayne's charisma. My sole point to you is the Rock is not a proper judging point for Luthor. Not even close.
No one ever said it was, so I don't know why you'd bother to single it out here. Someone inquired/questioned his acting (which is a separate topic) and I've more than elaborated on that.

Charisma can only pad and elevate presentation, it doesn't create content. You might as well say RDJ's entire post-rehab career is a sham because he's coasted on charm. Lines and fabricated personas aren't created out of thin air. It's brought to life by actors.

I don't want him for Lex anyway, so I suppose this is all a bit moot.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #41
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I'm down for Johnson as Metallo or Black Adam. preferably Adam

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #42
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No one ever said it was, so I don't know why you'd bother to single it out here. Someone inquired/questioned his acting (which is a separate topic) and I've more than elaborated on that.

Charisma can only pad and elevate presentation, it doesn't create content. You might as well say RDJ's entire post-rehab career is a sham because he's coasted on charm. Lines and fabricated personas aren't created out of thin air. It's brought to life by actors.
His acting as the Rock is not what made the role popular. It's his charisma in the role that did it. Don't make it seem like Dwayne had to be a fantastic actor to pull off the role of the Rock. Because that's simply a load of crap. That is not a role that required great acting skill. Lex Luthor is.

Don't even start to compare him to RDJ, who has actually handled drama before and flexed his acting chops.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:51 AM   #43
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I never said the Rock wasn't an actor, btw. It's the type of actor he is that leads me to believe he doesn't fit Luthor. He has only shown me he can handle comedic and action-oriented roles. Not intellectual or devious ones.

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Old 11-06-2013, 01:59 AM   #44
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His acting as the Rock is not what made the role popular. It's his charisma in the role that did it. Don't make it seem like Dwayne had to be a fantastic actor to pull off the role of the Rock. Because that's simply a load of crap.
Ask anyone, Dwayne is a loveable, grinning teddy bear. When his entire facade of his professional career is a disrespectful and witty loudmouth with pages full of incredible insults, I don't know how you could possibly write that off as pure charisma. That is a complete 180 from his actual personality.

As I said before, lines don't just speak themselves. He's reading off a script and staging his scenes, just like any other actor. Why don't you just outright say "that's not real acting" and get on with it? It's obvious at this point that's what you're heavily indicating.

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Don't even start to compare him to RDJ, who has actually handled drama before and flexed his acting chops.
I didn't compare their entire careers, merely bring up a point how much charm carries a role. If you're so dismissive of The Rock, are you as dismissive about Tony Stark? Because I'm not seeing a massive difference in their portrayal relative to what's supposed to be taken in by the audience.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:00 AM   #45
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If the Rock is given the most mediocre writing Goyer's ever clicked "save as" on he will probably end up being more interesting than Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:02 AM   #46
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I never said the Rock wasn't an actor, btw. It's the type of actor he is that leads me to believe he doesn't fit Luthor. He has only shown me he can handle comedic and action-oriented roles. Not intellectual or devious ones.
Fair enough, but I would point out some of our greatest dramatic actors today started out with fluff roles and comedic parts. I always like to reference Spicoli, but there are several other examples as well.

Not to say Dwayne would go down this path, but transformative careers aren't that uncommon in Hollywood.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:08 AM   #47
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Ask anyone, Dwayne is a loveable, grinning teddy bear. When his entire facade of his professional career is a disrespectful and witty loudmouth with pages full of incredible insults, I don't know how you could possibly write that off as pure charisma. That is a complete 180 from his actual personality.

As I said before, lines don't just speak themselves. He's reading off a script and staging his scenes, just like any other actor. Why don't you just outright say "that's not real acting" and get on with it? It's obvious at this point that's what you're heavily indicating.


I didn't compare their entire careers, merely bring up a point how much charm carries a role. If you're so dismissive of The Rock, are you as dismissive about Tony Stark? Because I'm not seeing a massive difference in their portrayal relative to what's supposed to be taken in by the audience.
RDJ has shown he can handle drama as well as comedy with Stark, which is all apart of his charm as Stark. Not the same as Dwaynes situation at all.
Like I said before, Dwayne is an actor. He's read off the script for the Rock and delivered those lines with charisma. Point blank. That's not the same as handling a dramatic role. About the 180 thing... I'm sure Dwayne has little in common with most, if not all, of the roles he has played. Still, none of those roles have indicated he can play a great Luthor.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:26 AM   #48
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RDJ has shown he can handle drama as well as comedy with Stark, which is all apart of his charm as Stark. Not the same as Dwaynes situation at all.
Like I said before, Dwayne is an actor. He's read off the script for the Rock and delivered those lines with charisma. Point blank. That's not the same as handling a dramatic role. About the 180 thing... I'm sure Dwayne has little in common with most, if not all, of the roles he has played. Still, none of those roles have indicated he can play a great Luthor.
See, there's the crux. An occasionally hotly debated one amongst film critics in what determines acting; presence of drama. I'm going to leave Dwayne here as this is bigger than him, but I don't agree the exclusion of dramatic elements diminishes a performance. It can be heavily argued (and it has) that evoking laughter is probably the hardest thing a performer can do.

Comedic timing is a trait which usually translates to smoother transition into the dramatic territory of acting. The pacing and delivery are meticulously coordinated at very specific moments to illicit a reaction from the audience. This is no different from when you're about to hit the punchline, or when you're about to unleash an enormous tug of the heartstrings. Is it any real surprise the actors who know how to control your emotions do so well in both comedy and drama?

Robin Williams - One Hour Photo
Bill Murray - Lost in Translation
Jamie Foxx - Ray
Steve Carell - Little Miss Sunshine
Jim Carrey - Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Adam Sandler - Punch Drunk Love
Will Ferrell - Stranger than Fiction
Will Smith - Pursuit of Happyness

That's just off the top of my head, but hopefully the point is across. For whatever reason, comedy seems to have gotten a bad rep over the years. Truly an underrated artform.

Steering this back on track, it begs the question: would any of you guys be open to a proper comic actor taking on a dramatic turn as a famous comic book persona? I can only speak for myself, but the last time this happened (Keaton/Batman), I thought it turned out rather brilliantly.

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Old 11-06-2013, 04:03 AM   #49
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RDJ has shown he can handle drama as well as comedy with Stark, which is all apart of his charm as Stark. Not the same as Dwaynes situation at all.
Like I said before, Dwayne is an actor. He's read off the script for the Rock and delivered those lines with charisma. Point blank. That's not the same as handling a dramatic role. About the 180 thing... I'm sure Dwayne has little in common with most, if not all, of the roles he has played. Still, none of those roles have indicated he can play a great Luthor.

For those doubting Dwayne as a good actor, look at his last movie "Pain and Gain" or at least the reviews of that film. The film might have mixed reviews, but he was great in it, and seemingly convinced a lot of critics that he is a good actor.
Obviously that role won't be the same as someone in a Superhero film but he's genuinely a smart guy and I don't see why he can't do something like that and be very good.
Just because he hasn't played a Luthor role yet, doesn't mean he can't.
A lot seem to judge him before he's given a chance because they don't like wrestling or 2 films that they saw him in or because he's too big or he's black or not black enough.
He's good, getting better all the time, proving people wrong and I think he will continue to do so if he's given the chances.

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Old 11-06-2013, 04:16 AM   #50
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I haven't watched Pain & Gain but he was very good in Snitch. He has grown a lot as an actor and you can tell he tries. He wants to be a good actor, not just an action star.

He has grown a lot and he does have charisma. Not for Luthor though, although i kind off agree even with the worst script possible he will do a better job than the cheesfest that was Gene Hackman and the couldbegoodbutultimatelyfailed Kevin Spacey.

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