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Old 12-05-2013, 06:04 AM   #76
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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I don't understand this groaning about the comedy in the movies. It makes the characters and atmosphere more real in my opinion. I don't know how you all live, but I live and completely surrounded by people who try to make light of things, throw in one liners and in general, just love to enjoy life with a good laugh. It's why I prefer the MCU films over the DC ones, which are just way too dark for me (except for TDK, because at least the Joker had awesome comedic touches)

Hell, my favorite scene in Captain America TFA, was when Steve just kissed his girl, and then was looking at Tommy Lee Jones, and then Jones cried out "I'm not gonna kiss ya!" It was a good, human moment.
This! 100x
I loved how Marvel makes their tone of their movies, and i do not think they should change that into dark-gritty styled DC. and I do believe Kevin Feige won't change that.

Humor and Laughs particularly are parts of daily life in where I live.
If there is member of this board here who ever seen Japan's superheroes show such as Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Gavans,and many other...you can see that they were all had similar tone to what Marvel has had done. They are bright, colorful, and also had lots of humor along with it. And i think that's the reason why Marvel movies are much more welcomed in Japan than DC. Not just superhero movies, but in other genre as well, the more comical and more brightful tone is what really gets into (especially) on teenage, young adults here, especially when the source comes from comic books.

And i agree with you too, warhorse78, that life is too short for dark and gritty things.
For me, a movie (with humor aspect on it) could make my life feels more brighter...
I've laughed and enjoying life more after watching Marvel movie like Iron Man 3 than darker serious tone movies such as Watchmen or The Dark Knight.


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Old 12-13-2013, 11:30 AM   #77
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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This! 100x
I loved how Marvel makes their tone of their movies, and i do not think they should change that into dark-gritty styled DC. and I do believe Kevin Feige won't change that.

Humor and Laughs particularly are parts of daily life in where I live.
If there is member of this board here who ever seen Japan's superheroes show such as Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Gavans,and many other...you can see that they were all had similar tone to what Marvel has had done. They are bright, colorful, and also had lots of humor along with it. And i think that's the reason why Marvel movies are much more welcomed in Japan than DC. Not just superhero movies, but in other genre as well, the more comical and more brightful tone is what really gets into (especially) on teenage, young adults here, especially when the source comes from comic books.

And i agree with you too, warhorse78, that life is too short for dark and gritty things.
For me, a movie (with humor aspect on it) could make my life feels more brighter...
I've laughed and enjoying life more after watching Marvel movie like Iron Man 3 than darker serious tone movies such as Watchmen or The Dark Knight.
Don't forget Anpanman.

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Old 12-28-2013, 03:31 PM   #78
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

One thing that annoys me is how those who are fine with the comedy use the silly 'all or nothing' stance, like it has to be all comedy or no comedy. There is a happy middle.

We don't want the movies to be miserable, bleak, joyless, dark and realistic, we like humour and levity and moments of comedy, but used appropriately and not in excess.

Iron Man 3 was about Tony suffering a debilitating condition, being alone and lost and going up against terrorism.

Thor 2 had his Mother die, his brother die, a villian trying to end the entire universe.

These types of stories and atmospheres don't support lots of comedy but were given too much comedic moments.

It's all about balance, about pacing the moments of levity to break the tension and give a little smile or laugh and not throwing it in willy nilly at odd points where it undermines the drama.

And not having characters whose only purpose is comedy relief like Darcy who serves no other purpose.

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Except that you have, in the case of TDW, and band of Evil Elves trying to destroy the universe and kill everyone, this is a serious situation. And yet your constantly throwing in these jokes/gags, many of which aren't all that funny, and killing scenes that should have actual tension. No to mention that some of these pointless comedy relief character took away time that should have been used to develop more important/interesting characters, like Sif, Warriors 3, and Malekith, THE MAIN VILLAIN. Less Darcy and Ian and more Sif please. IM 3 had the same problem. There were times when I'm like "could you people PLEASE take this situation a little more serious, countless lives are at stake." But no, it's one joke right after another. Avengers go the balance down, IM 1 got the balance down, even TFA largely got the balance down. IM 3 and TDW did not.
Agreed. Humour and levity should fit the tone and story.

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The humor should be as the it was on The Wolverine. Potent and plenty but understated. Less slapstick more dry.
Agreed, it was light, quick, fit the scenes and most importantly wasn't silly.

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It's not the humor itself that's the problem, it's how much and how it is integrated into the movie. in IM 3 and TDW, there were two main problems with the humor.
1. A lot of it simply wasn't funny, just irritating. The Earth stuff in TDW was especially painful.
2. It was added to situations that should have been taken more seriously. It kills any form of tension when you have a supposedly dangerous situation and yet it's just one joke right after the other. Thor 2 was called THE DARK WORLD for goodness sake, the word DARK is in the freaking title. Malekith was trying to destroy the universe and everyone in it. Having constant not very funny comedy doesn't fit with that scenario, it causes tonal whiplash.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:17 AM   #79
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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Really? If that's what you think, then you don't know the military as well as you let on. Not by a long shot.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that taking something seriously means being devoid of humor or levity. They needn't be mutually exclusive, and as others have stated, go hand in hand in some pretty bad situations; more often than you apparently think, for that matter.

My take on this whole 'humor vs drama' or 'light vs dark' debate is that fans are looking at this from the wrong angles. Far too many people, especially lately, scrutinize humor while passively accepting (melo)drama, no matter how heavy handed it may be. This is unquestionably the general mood of the fan community by now; the very existence of threads like this is a testament to that. I'm starting to wonder when we'll see threads asking how much drama a film should have. Seems that people have completely forgotten what melodrama is; I'm surprised that soap operas aren't all the rage these days. Melodrama, to me, is every bit as obnoxious as the most brainless slapstick humor I could imagine; I take one about as seriously as I take the other. I see it in the threads for prospective/upcoming films all the time; the first thing fans beg for in a movie nowadays is a 'dour, dramatic, serious tone with NO KIDDY COMEDY'. The ironic thing is that much of the humor in these Marvel films has been referential in nature, referencing things that most kids and even young adults either aren't familiar with or wouldn't understand.

I'm getting off track here, but my point is that pitting one against the other is a fool's errand, and for several reasons. First of all, there's no reason why they can't coexist and complement one another, and if you're old enough to walk and talk, I shouldn't need to provide examples of this; hundreds of movies have done it before. Secondly, and this is the most important, is that you dismiss context when you're asking for how much humor you want to see in a film. 'How much' is completely arbitrary, when what you should be concerned with is the context and quality of the humor; i.e. whether or not it fits the character(s), the relevance, delivery, setup, paradox, etc. The last piece is one that I find especially disturbing, in that when someone dismisses humor in favor of drama, what they're essentially saying is that drama/seriousness is a free ticket to quality, while humor is inherently substandard. I can't abide that nonsense. No disrespect to the OP or anything, but I feel as if this thread, and the myriad of others like it, is fundamentally asking the wrong questions. I can't understand why an arbitrary amount of humor is more important to some folks than the performances, characterizations, cinematography, dialogue, and a whole host of other things that have a much greater impact on the final product.



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really? so you were physically with them on their deployment? before and after patrols and missions? before a fight? after a fight?

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Old 01-01-2014, 02:06 AM   #80
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

MS films really need to learn balance.

The first Iron Man had good balance between serious and humor.The sequels lost that.Iron Man 3 was way too much humor.And i found the humor bad.With thor films I don't like the earth scenes because way too much humor,and what I call eye rolling bad humor.I like asgard parts of both thor films.I want more Sif and less Darcy.

Winter soldier feels like a total different ballgame.The first avenger handled it well.Winter soldier seems to be mostly serious story with some lighter moments.Although banter between cap and widow were only humorus part In teaser.

That's part of reason why I am looking forward to WInter solider.Add to Chris evans as cap Is most 616 marvel studios hero in films,Scarlett Johansson and the fact they were able to get robert redford In this film.

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Old 02-12-2014, 06:33 PM   #81
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

I can already see that a lot of people may not like this because of the 'comedy'.

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Old 02-12-2014, 06:55 PM   #82
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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I can already see that a lot of people may not like this because of the 'comedy'.
So you are saying there is lots of humour in this? I sort of hope not because I wanted a break from the comedy in the MCU films and wanted this film to be a little more serious and sophisticated.

Obviously I expect there to be humour in the film, but not as much as Avengers, Iron Man 3 or Thor 2.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:21 PM   #83
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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So you are saying there is lots of humour in this? I sort of hope not because I wanted a break from the comedy in the MCU films and wanted this film to be a little more serious and sophisticated.

Obviously I expect there to be humour in the film, but not as much as Avengers, Iron Man 3 or Thor 2.
I never said there's lots of humour. Serious doesn't always mean better. Honestly why do people act like if a movie makes you laugh or has humour then it can't have character development or deal with complex and serious themes? May I need to remind you that both IM3 and THor 2 had some very serious and dark moments. I don't know why people complain about the humour in the MCU films yet there are there opening week-end to watch this films. It puzzles me really.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:30 PM   #84
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

To be honest, mostly it's only fanboys who made such big deal out of it. Most of the GA doesn't really keep track on how many one liners there are in any given CB movie.As long as it works within the context of the movie,the GA will be fine with it.

Case in point- the box office succes of IM3 recently.

With most fanboys, i suspect it's got something to do with their need for validation for their hobby-namely comics.The succes of Nolan Bat movies gave them that validation; 'see...comics are not just for kids! it can be serious too!'

So when a CB movie got one or two one liners or comedic moments too many in their eyes, it made them paranoid their hobby won't be taken seriously anymore- which is stupid.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:52 PM   #85
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

The MCU will never suddenly change their formula. It's not gonna happen. Usually for me, the comedy works. It makes me laugh even the moment where Darcy was making out with the intern or when Thor took the subway in TDW. Even though I though the humour was a bit much in the final battle, it worked and it didn't take away from my overall enjoyment of the film. I don't think there has been eye-rolling humour in the MCU films as of now imo.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:56 PM   #86
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

Nolan's Bat films had humor. The dry dark kind (See Joker, Selina, Bruce and Alfred and Lucius Fox…) Selina Kyle's snark was one of my favorite parts about TDKR.

With Marvel Studios, the humor fit the tone of the movies, didn't feel out of place. I would say that Marvel's use of humor's been pretty much the same, IM3's tone was an action-buddy cop film written and directed by one of the top class action film screenwriters since the 80's. Plus, humor is integral to Tony's character; he uses it to detract from his bigger issues.

Thor: The Dark World could have had a little better balance, but I thought it was enjoyable.

CA:TWS should have humor in it, but as long as it's balanced, doesn't interfere with the big dramatic moments, and serves the characters well, that's all I want.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:58 PM   #87
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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So you are saying there is lots of humour in this? I sort of hope not because I wanted a break from the comedy in the MCU films and wanted this film to be a little more serious and sophisticated.

Obviously I expect there to be humour in the film, but not as much as Avengers, Iron Man 3 or Thor 2.
Who says the two are mutually exclusive? They aren't. It's all how the humor is woven into dialogue and the story.

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:09 PM   #88
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Who says the two are mutually exclusive? They aren't. It's all how the humor is woven into dialogue and the story.
Well said. I think people mistake situational humour over jokes. There's a difference.

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:17 PM   #89
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Really? If that's what you think, then you don't know the military as well as you let on. Not by a long shot.



You seem to be under the mistaken impression that taking something seriously means being devoid of humor or levity. They needn't be mutually exclusive, and as others have stated, go hand in hand in some pretty bad situations; more often than you apparently think, for that matter.

My take on this whole 'humor vs drama' or 'light vs dark' debate is that fans are looking at this from the wrong angles. Far too many people, especially lately, scrutinize humor while passively accepting (melo)drama, no matter how heavy handed it may be. This is unquestionably the general mood of the fan community by now; the very existence of threads like this is a testament to that. I'm starting to wonder when we'll see threads asking how much drama a film should have. Seems that people have completely forgotten what melodrama is; I'm surprised that soap operas aren't all the rage these days. Melodrama, to me, is every bit as obnoxious as the most brainless slapstick humor I could imagine; I take one about as seriously as I take the other. I see it in the threads for prospective/upcoming films all the time; the first thing fans beg for in a movie nowadays is a 'dour, dramatic, serious tone with NO KIDDY COMEDY'. The ironic thing is that much of the humor in these Marvel films has been referential in nature, referencing things that most kids and even young adults either aren't familiar with or wouldn't understand.

I'm getting off track here, but my point is that pitting one against the other is a fool's errand, and for several reasons. First of all, there's no reason why they can't coexist and complement one another, and if you're old enough to walk and talk, I shouldn't need to provide examples of this; hundreds of movies have done it before. Secondly, and this is the most important, is that you dismiss context when you're asking for how much humor you want to see in a film. 'How much' is completely arbitrary, when what you should be concerned with is the context and quality of the humor; i.e. whether or not it fits the character(s), the relevance, delivery, setup, paradox, etc. The last piece is one that I find especially disturbing, in that when someone dismisses humor in favor of drama, what they're essentially saying is that drama/seriousness is a free ticket to quality, while humor is inherently substandard. I can't abide that nonsense. No disrespect to the OP or anything, but I feel as if this thread, and the myriad of others like it, is fundamentally asking the wrong questions. I can't understand why an arbitrary amount of humor is more important to some folks than the performances, characterizations, cinematography, dialogue, and a whole host of other things that have a much greater impact on the final product.
I just… really wanted to bump Visualize's post from the last page. Because truth!!

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:21 PM   #90
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And I think Avengers is a pretty great model for humor/drama balance. They had the emotional beats (Cap/Tony, Loki/Thor, Widow/Hawkeye, Fury/Everyone, Banner/Widow and Banner/Stark…) mixed in with humorous parts of dialogue.

Basically a Whedon show.

Hell, The Wire and Breaking Bad, two shows that are widely considered the best dramas television ever produced and two of my favorite TV series of all time, had some of the funniest dark comedy bits I've ever seen. My favorite characters on THE WIRE (Bunk, McNulty, Freamon, OMAR!!) were responsible for some great humorous moments and dialogue.

With Breaking Bad, there's Jesse, Walt, Marie, and of course, BETTER CALL SAUL!

Drama cannot exist without humor and vice versa. They are each other's yin-yang, and well done movies, tv shows, books, etc. have both.

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:52 PM   #91
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I don't have a problem with humor in and of itself.

The problem is when:

1) The humor is forced. One common thing I've noticed with humor, in commercials, movies, TV, etc., is that the best humor is very spontaneous, very natural, and comes from a very real place. Some of the best humor in real life is spontaneous because, well, it wasn't scripted.

This is why RDJ's humor is so funny whenever he's on film. The majority of the time, it's not scripted, so you don't know what he's going to say next. It's funny because it's so spontaneous and feels so natural because the humor is coming from a very real place. It all goes back to people like The Marx Bros. and The Three Stooges, who were very well known for unpredictable slapstick humor.

On the flip side of things, when comedians try to create their own humor, it doesn't work a lot of the time because it feels artificial. It doesn't come from a real place.

You can't force humor. If you do, then it just doesn't work.

2) It doesn't relate to a situation at hand within the film. If an unrelated joke or gag is just put in a film just because the film isn't funny enough, it immediately takes me out of the film, because I know it was put there just to lighten the mood of the film for being too "serious". That wouldn't happen in real life, so why should it happen in a film?

Which leads me to my next point...

3) There's too many jokes, or the placement of said joke is inappropriate. If you place too many jokes in a movie which explores very serious themes, it pretty much undermines the seriousness of what's going on within the film. If you put a joke in a scene that's supposed to be serious, it ruins the tone of that scene.

Imagine the scene when Han Solo is about to be frozen in Carbonite, and all of the sudden a Stormtrooper spouts a witty one-liner. That would be awful.

Jokes and gags in and of themselves aren't bad. It's the amount of them and the context in which they are placed that makes or breaks the scene.

Just my two cents.

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Old 02-12-2014, 10:53 PM   #92
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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I don't have a problem with humor in and of itself.

The problem is when:

1) The humor is forced. One common thing I've noticed with humor, in commercials, movies, TV, etc., is that the best humor is very spontaneous, very natural, and comes from a very real place. Some of the best humor in real life is spontaneous because, well, it wasn't scripted.

This is why RDJ's humor is so funny whenever he's on film. The majority of the time, it's not scripted, so you don't know what he's going to say next. It's funny because it's so spontaneous and feels so natural because the humor is coming from a very real place. It all goes back to people like The Marx Bros. and The Three Stooges, who were very well known for unpredictable slapstick humor.

On the flip side of things, when comedians try to create their own humor, it doesn't work a lot of the time because it feels artificial. It doesn't come from a real place.

You can't force humor. If you do, then it just doesn't work.

2) It doesn't relate to a situation at hand within the film. If an unrelated joke or gag is just put in a film just because the film isn't funny enough, it immediately takes me out of the film, because I know it was put there just to lighten the mood of the film for being too "serious". That wouldn't happen in real life, so why should it happen in a film.

Which leads me to my next point...

3) There's too many jokes, or the placement of said joke is inappropriate. If you place too many jokes in a movie which explores very serious themes, it pretty much undermines the seriousness of what's going on within the film. If you put a joke in a scene that's supposed to be serious, it ruins the tone of that scene.

Imagine the scene when Han Solo is about to be frozen in Carbonite, and all of the sudden a Stormtrooper spouts a witty one-liner. That would be awful.

Jokes and gags in and of themselves aren't bad. It's the amount of them and the context in which they are place that makes or breaks the scene.

Just my two cents.

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Old 02-13-2014, 03:53 AM   #93
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

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I don't have a problem with humor in and of itself.

The problem is when:

1) The humor is forced. One common thing I've noticed with humor, in commercials, movies, TV, etc., is that the best humor is very spontaneous, very natural, and comes from a very real place. Some of the best humor in real life is spontaneous because, well, it wasn't scripted.

This is why RDJ's humor is so funny whenever he's on film. The majority of the time, it's not scripted, so you don't know what he's going to say next. It's funny because it's so spontaneous and feels so natural because the humor is coming from a very real place. It all goes back to people like The Marx Bros. and The Three Stooges, who were very well known for unpredictable slapstick humor.

On the flip side of things, when comedians try to create their own humor, it doesn't work a lot of the time because it feels artificial. It doesn't come from a real place.

You can't force humor. If you do, then it just doesn't work.

2) It doesn't relate to a situation at hand within the film. If an unrelated joke or gag is just put in a film just because the film isn't funny enough, it immediately takes me out of the film, because I know it was put there just to lighten the mood of the film for being too "serious". That wouldn't happen in real life, so why should it happen in a film?

Which leads me to my next point...

3) There's too many jokes, or the placement of said joke is inappropriate. If you place too many jokes in a movie which explores very serious themes, it pretty much undermines the seriousness of what's going on within the film. If you put a joke in a scene that's supposed to be serious, it ruins the tone of that scene.

Imagine the scene when Han Solo is about to be frozen in Carbonite, and all of the sudden a Stormtrooper spouts a witty one-liner. That would be awful.

Jokes and gags in and of themselves aren't bad. It's the amount of them and the context in which they are placed that makes or breaks the scene.

Just my two cents.
This needs to be quoted at least once on every page of this thread. Thank you for articulating exactly what I was thinking.

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Old 02-13-2014, 04:14 AM   #94
Keyser Soze
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Default Re: How much Comedy would you want to see in this film... if any?

I've not had a problem with any of the comedy in the Marvel Studios films. I think it adds some levity, and that the filmmakers strike a good balance between comedy and drama that helps the films maintain their brisk, breezy pace. The closest I've felt to the comedy actually detracting from an MCU film was Iron Man 2, as that was the only time I felt like we were getting "Let's stop the plot for a scene or two while we have this comic setpiece." But even that had more comedy that did work than didn't, since it was able to coast on the charm of such dependable actors as Robert Downey Jr and Sam Rockwell.

Look, clearly Marvel Studios are onto a winning formula. Action and adventure, with dramatic beats and nuanced characterisation balanced with quick-witted humour and hijinks has proven a highly profitable blueprint for Marvel, one that seems to have gone down very well with the mainstream audience. And that's not just going back to The Avengers, that's going back to Iron Man. I don't see Kevin Feige looking at his box office returns and coming to the conclusion that the tone of his films needs to change.

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Last edited by Keyser Soze; 02-13-2014 at 04:23 AM.
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