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Old 12-04-2013, 05:50 AM   #726
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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also most of the rabid thor universe fans are on tumblr. what a weird place
But they are not happy with the movie too, and constantly speaking like "this movie have not give birth to as many fan created content as first one and avengers" and that they struggle with new canon as it is too open ended, meaningless ans filled with plot-holes even they cant fill. The only ones that are happy are Loki fans "he is the king! he is soo sassy! feels! etc."-but they do not understand perhaps, that this movie with it`s ending given their "baby" a death sentence in third part.

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Old 12-04-2013, 10:10 AM   #727
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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I want to comment on the topic of the TDW forum "dying down," so to speak (this isn't directed at you, Jamon, btw.). I know I have only been posting here for a short time, but I've actually been reading SHH regularly since the early 2000s. I'm just not the 'message board' type of person. That said, I felt like I finally wanted to be a part of the conversation and got my account activated specifically so I could discuss TTDW (and the other ongoing MCU projects) with other knowledgeable fans leading up to its release, and afterwards. Since TDW came out, though, I've been posting less because (as someone pointed out in another thread), it just becomes a chore to try to have a positive discussion about something when there are a handful of people in each thread who continue to dwell on/rehash the same negative arguments over and over again.

One example is in the "box office" thread. I like to get the updates and reactions from people who are good at analyzing those numbers, but I don't need to read page after page of discussion about movies other than TDW, movies which I presume have their own threads where that could be discussed. Comparing TDW's performance to another film makes sense, but to have Tweedldum, Tweedledee, and Tweedlethree just going back and forth with each other perpetuating conversations that I have no interest in have put me off. The same is true of other threads in the TDW section.

Just speaking as a person with a low post count (should I see my doctor about that?), it's not a lack of interest in Thor that has slowed down my posting here. It's the people who have nothing better to do but post repeatedly about the same things that just bore me to death and kill the discussion for me. I'm the type of person who will speak his mind once then move on, but clearly I'm out numbered.

I agree. Even before the movie came out, there were a lot of people posting negative comments over and over and over again. It was all, "I'm worried about this" or "I don't think it will be good" or "I'm not excited for it", etc etc. It actually ruined my viewing of the movie because the entire time I was thinking about all the anxiety and worry that people on this forum had and I internalized it and made them my worries and anxieties. I came out of the movie thinking that it wasn't that great because I remembered all of the things that people wanted from it and thinking it was a let down.

And then I went to watch it again and realized that some people here are insane and I wonder how they could ever enjoy any movie when all they do is worry. It was much better for me the second time around and I can't wait to watch it again.

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Old 12-04-2013, 10:12 AM   #728
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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But they are not happy with the movie too, and constantly speaking like "this movie have not give birth to as many fan created content as first one and avengers" and that they struggle with new canon as it is too open ended, meaningless ans filled with plot-holes even they cant fill. The only ones that are happy are Loki fans "he is the king! he is soo sassy! feels! etc."-but they do not understand perhaps, that this movie with it`s ending given their "baby" a death sentence in third part.

You're kind of rude to Loki fans.

Also, that last part of your statement is probably incorrect because killing Loki in the 3rd Thor would be too redundant. He's already "died" twice now. He would be like Kenny from South Park.


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Old 12-04-2013, 02:32 PM   #729
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

Should Odin actually be dead, and if its by Loki's hand then Thor will be the one who kills him, that's a given..
I would not want it any other way...

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Old 12-04-2013, 03:11 PM   #730
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You're kind of rude to Loki fans.

Also, that last part of your statement is probably incorrect because killing Loki in the 3rd Thor would be too redundant. He's already "died" twice now. He would be like Kenny from South Park.
There are some sane ones for sure, I am talking about thous who are mad, like the ones who think that Thor was rude to him without the reason the whole movie and should beg his forgiveness (just an example).

If he really died and came back than yes, he would be Kenny but he "cheated death" two (three if you count Avengers and his transportation to comfy asgardian prison for VIP) times! You think that this is not redundant? Not everyone are Loki fans, my friend asked me after the movie "why did he lived again?"and I didn`t know what to answer him. And this time he usurped the throne and done-what-gods-know with Odin!

See, he could run away after his fake-death and become more like antihero free agent but nop, he decided he need to make his dream come true and so become a full fledged villain again. If he just run away Thor would understand perhaps, he would be hurt by the lie but would forgive him eventually. But now? Odin bad or good was Thor`s father, his only living parent, and if Loki killed him it`s only natural that Thor would kill Loki for it. Like Loki killed Kurse for Frigga, the same thing. Thats why I say there is no way for him out of this alive.


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Old 12-04-2013, 03:20 PM   #731
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

Technically, if Thor 3 does end up being about Ragnarok, none of the Asgardians make it out alive.

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Old 12-04-2013, 03:44 PM   #732
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Technically, if Thor 3 does end up being about Ragnarok, none of the Asgardians make it out alive.
Aaand because they are not gods in MCU it will all end in Ultimate Universe style - all asgardians are dead, asgard destroyed, Thor survived but depowered,mortal, forever Earth-bound and wears Stark created armor and use Stark created hammer to compensate the loss and be able to stay an Avenger.Peachy. Hope this disaster never happens in movies.

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Old 12-04-2013, 04:38 PM   #733
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MOS had no humour either (its actually one of my complaints about the movie, it needed a bit more levity, but only a bit), and made a lot of money, so I dont get your point. People are complaining about the level of humour, I never said majority, I said people, you seem to be misinterpreting what I am saying. 'People' COULD turn into a majority if Marvel dont change things up, that was what I was saying.
I gave you more than that, I gave you a trend. You say yourself that there's more humor in the phase 2 movies and the phase 2 movies made more money. A significant part of that comparison is that it's the same characters, so the comparison is very direct.

But if we have to compare completely different characters and universes MoS featured a more famous and well established hero than TDW, and it didn't really do more money despite being released at a more favorable time and with more marketing. Not that I would really draw that conclusion, and I generally don't care about how much money a movie brings in (it's only brought up as incentive for the studios in this discussion), so it's just for the sake of commenting on the issue.

And my point about "people" is that you can find complaints about nearly everything. I gave you an example with the people that think there's too many superhero movies. Those could also become the majority if I'm talking as theoretically as you. The trend speaks against both though.

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I'd say fewer people are complaining about the amount of CBM's compared to how they are made. People are saying that the level of humour in these Marvel movies is somewhat ruining the movies for them. People put IM3 as one of if not the worst MCU movie because of this. Its becoming a problem to fans, it may become a problem to the GA if it persists.
Both just look like vocal minorities. IM3 is the most successful solo CBM there is so I doubt the studio is shaking about those complaints. I also saw more complaints about the Mandarin than about the humor among comic book fans.

If you can provide evidence that IM3 is viewed worse than IM2 in general by the fans I'd take this fear seriously for that part of the viewership. Nothing I've seen supports that at all though.

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Again, I am enjoying the movies, its not like they are X3 levels of disasters, but there ARE many things they could improve on, and they seem to all have the same flaws, if fans can see this why cant Marvel? Sure they are making money, but TDW hasnt exactly set the world alight, I am sure they were expecting to make more than it has, at least domestically.

As for discussion, the Thor 1 boards were active months after it was released, same with other movies this year like MOS, The Wolverine, and even IM3 (though that was down to the twist more than anything). I have been here 10 years and very rarely see a board go so dead a month after the movie is released. TDW is dead a month after release and I think its because the movie was forgettable, a few people have even said this in their reviews. Its another disappointing aspect of the movie and my point that these MCU arent leaving a lasting impression. I can still watch many CBM's from 10-5 years ago and enjoy them immensely. I cant see that happening with TDW. Again this is just me I am talking about.
This is what I'm talking about. Here you are taking your opinion, stating it as a fact that they are flaws that "fans" see and Marvel doesn't. That's not at all how you write opinion, that's a very definitive statement of fact. It's going out of your way to do so since there are simpler ways to formulate that without those insinuations (and I'm not talking about "imo"). I'm just stating this so you might understand why some can react to it.

But to focus on the issue, all movies have flaws so of course there are things to work on. The humor is still not something you can just state as a flaw in a general discussion.

As for the money TDW is bringing in, it's more than the first Thor and you liked that one. If TDW not setting the world alight is an argument against choices in that movie, what can you then say about the movies that make less? Those choices must be worse by that logic.

Comparing with MoS is pretty pointless because the two big DC characters always have far more discussion going on than comparable MCU movies. As said, the TDW forum didn't have that much discussion before the movie was released either. I don't know about TIH but Thor had less discussion than the other phase 1 movies as well, although it was probably considered upper half in general. Overall he seems to be the least popular Avenger of the big four on this board.

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Villains very rarely get what they want, thats not what I was talking about, I was talking about having some depth and actually coming across as a threat and someone who COULD acheive their goals. Loki was all of these things in the 1st movie. And others such as Magneto have been as well. As for Zod, I was genuinly worried Superman wouldnt be able to beat him in that last fight in MOS, and the way they did end it was great and unexpected. I never once had these feelings with Malekith, it got to the point were I was just saying to myself "come on Thor just finish him already." Thats how little an impact he had as a villain to me. I was never once worried Thor wouldnt be able to beat him. Zod wasnt an amazing villain by any means, he's not up there with the Loki's, and Magneto's of this world. But he came across as a threat and had understandable motivations. He was a decent villain in a 'boo-hiss' trend. Malekith was just nothing.
That logic makes no sense. First of all, those villains couldn't achieve their goals. The evidence is there because they didn't. If you're talking about possibility that's just as illogical as Malekith certainly had the power to achieve his goal. Stating otherwise is just wrong.

I don't get how you thought Zod would win. There was no way that movie ends with Zod ruling the world, just as there was no way Malekith was actually destroying the universe. Leading up to the ends, Malekith had also actually come off successful at least once before. Zod constantly failed at everything, so why would he start doing something right at the end? Zod was also nothing more than the protagonist, while most other villains are better in at least something so they have an edge. I easily understood why he was doing what he was doing and while he didn't get built up as much his build up was at least consistent with what was shown, unlike Zod's.

And if there's any fight in a CBM where I would have said "come on, just finish him" it would be the Zod fight after what I felt was an eternity of exaggerated action without any dynamic. I had enough before Supes and Zod even began. I liked Malekith much better. The only thing I wasn't sure of in that fight was how someone would win, since neither Zod nor Superman took any damage from anything. Of course it was again illogical since Superman first is too weak to even control Zod's head, and then suddenly strong enough to easily break his neck.

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Old 12-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #734
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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I agree. Even before the movie came out, there were a lot of people posting negative comments over and over and over again. It was all, "I'm worried about this" or "I don't think it will be good" or "I'm not excited for it", etc etc. It actually ruined my viewing of the movie because the entire time I was thinking about all the anxiety and worry that people on this forum had and I internalized it and made them my worries and anxieties. I came out of the movie thinking that it wasn't that great because I remembered all of the things that people wanted from it and thinking it was a let down.

And then I went to watch it again and realized that some people here are insane and I wonder how they could ever enjoy any movie when all they do is worry. It was much better for me the second time around and I can't wait to watch it again.
Thanks for the comment. I definitely had a similar experience. The first time I saw it, I walked out loving it (while I could still recognize a few flaws). But driving home, but I heard the nagging voice of the naysayers in the back of my head. When I saw it for the second (and third) time, my initial reaction was reaffirmed and, as you said, I could just forget about the negative nancies.

When I came back to the boards, I posted that I enjoyed it, but I was drowned out by the negativity at that time. My ego doesn't require that I fight to be heard, so I just went elsewhere to post or didn't post at all.

I'm sure that more than a few people felt this way, which has at least contributed to the boards "dying."

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Old 12-04-2013, 05:48 PM   #735
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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Technically, if Thor 3 does end up being about Ragnarok, none of the Asgardians make it out alive.
I don't think Ragnarok needs to be any more "successful" than it was in the comic-book event several years ago. The setup can be there, but the general theme could be a lot more optimistic --- i.e., the gods "cheating" fate and certain doom.

But yeah, Ragnarok, or a smaller version of it, seems to be a natural for Thor 3. Odin vs. Surtur, Thor vs. Jormungandr, Loki vs. Heimdall.

What I'd like to see is Enchantress make her debut in Thor 3. She'd be the ideal one to unmask Loki's deception, since everyone else in Asgard (including Odin, Thor, Sif, and the Warriors Three) seems to have fallen for the masquerade. She could then pretend to be "one of the good guys" and insinuate herself into Thor's good graces by helping kick Loki off the throne. This could lead to a full-on three-way catfight between Amora, Sif and Jane for Thor's affection, with Enchantress actively campaigning to become the new Queen of Asgard alongside Thor.

Loki, of course, doesn't go gentle into that good night, and goes off to assemble an army of every conceivable Giant, including Thrym and Surtur. Then, this happens:

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Old 12-04-2013, 05:53 PM   #736
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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Technically, if Thor 3 does end up being about Ragnarok, none of the Asgardians make it out alive.
Unless they avert it, after a triumphant battle.

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Aaand because they are not gods in MCU it will all end in Ultimate Universe style - all asgardians are dead, asgard destroyed, Thor survived but depowered,mortal, forever Earth-bound and wears Stark created armor and use Stark created hammer to compensate the loss and be able to stay an Avenger.Peachy. Hope this disaster never happens in movies.
Ugh, I hope that never ever ever happens.

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I don't think Ragnarok needs to be any more "successful" than it was in the comic-book event several years ago. The setup can be there, but the general theme could be a lot more optimistic --- i.e., the gods "cheating" fate and certain doom.
Agreed. Oh, and I love that clip.

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Old 12-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #737
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You're kind of rude to Loki fans.

Also, that last part of your statement is probably incorrect because killing Loki in the 3rd Thor would be too redundant. He's already "died" twice now. He would be like Kenny from South Park.
The death thing has definitely been overused with Loki. He has seemingly died twice now, yet lived to scheme another day. His "death" in TDW was moving the first time I saw it, I'll give them that. And it was fitting that he was stabbed through the chest after once again stabbing someone in the back. But once it became clear that Loki faked his death, I began to wonder whether he staged his impalement to mimic the way he killed Agent Coulson in TA, the better to manipulate Thor by appearing to suffer the same fate and thereby atone for his crimes.


Thor was on last night and as it ended I realized that every member of Thor's immediate family has died (or seemed to). Asgardians may live for millennia but this lot dies at the drop of a hat.

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Old 12-05-2013, 09:14 AM   #738
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Both just look like vocal minorities. IM3 is the most successful solo CBM there is so I doubt the studio is shaking about those complaints. I also saw more complaints about the Mandarin than about the humor among comic book fans.

If you can provide evidence that IM3 is viewed worse than IM2 in general by the fans I'd take this fear seriously for that part of the viewership. Nothing I've seen supports that at all though.
I never once stated IM3 is viewed worse than IM2, I dont know were you got that from, it clearly isnt, but check my 'Worst MCU movie' thread in the Marvel forum, IM3 isnt exactly doing very well, but its doing better than IM2. For the record I think IM3 is better than IM2 as well, but the gap isnt that big between them anymore for me.

And i'm sure Marvel will be more than happy with the money it made, but it wouldnt have made the amount it did, same for TDW if it wasnt for the success of The Avengers. Take TA away and I think both movies wouldnt have made anywere near as much as they have.

I deleted the rest because its clear we arent going to agree on these things, I dont see the point in going round in circles in both this and the other thread, so I replied to you mostly there.

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Old 12-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #739
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I never once stated IM3 is viewed worse than IM2, I dont know were you got that from, it clearly isnt, but check my 'Worst MCU movie' thread in the Marvel forum, IM3 isnt exactly doing very well, but its doing better than IM2. For the record I think IM3 is better than IM2 as well, but the gap isnt that big between them anymore for me.

And i'm sure Marvel will be more than happy with the money it made, but it wouldnt have made the amount it did, same for TDW if it wasnt for the success of The Avengers. Take TA away and I think both movies wouldnt have made anywere near as much as they have.

I deleted the rest because its clear we arent going to agree on these things, I dont see the point in going round in circles in both this and the other thread, so I replied to you mostly there.
You said that people view it as one of the worst, if not the worst, MCU movie. Granted I probably got into normal reading mode when I wrote that, as I'm generally used to "people" being used as a majority so I probably saw something you didn't intend, which means it's no point in discussing that.

I looked at the thread and first of all, 157 votes is an incredibly low figure to draw any wide conclusions from. Secondly there's one pretty special thing about IM3 that makes it stand out negatively, and that's the Mandarin twist. A lot of that criticism was more about what the Mandarin is in the comics. Lastly I'd point out that you'll get a better picture of which movies are the most and least liked if people voting rank all of them. Theoretically you could have several people have Iron Man as the second worst, but it gets no votes because no one had it as the worst (I don't actually think this is the case, I just made an extreme example).

Of course The Avengers has helped but I don't know if you can just take TA away since that has also affected how the phase 2 movies were made. All MCU movies help each other and they all affect how others are made since they are supposed to work as one big whole.

Good move on focusing the rest in the other thread. It will make it easier to handle.

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Old 12-05-2013, 07:07 PM   #740
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^Yeah lets just keep it in the other thread, things were getting confusing!

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Old 12-06-2013, 01:52 AM   #741
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Just saw this film. I feel it lacked a thematic focus. The first film triumphantly presented the pantheon & the challenge of what it means to be a righteous king, the drama of familial connections, etc.

Whereas this one felt inconsequential, to a degree. Sure, there's loose ends to be tied up - but they're not interesting to me on a spiritual level. This film didn't question my world view or present any statements on life that moved me to a notable degree.

That's not to say that it didn't connect on an emotional level - Frigga's story and the impact on her children was intriguing but I feel like more could be juiced out of it.

I am a fan of Marvel humor and will say that I enjoyed all of it - it doesn't bother me at all. Perhaps some runtime could be better devoted towards narrative; in a film like this however where the narrative is little more than flashy lights and a big baddy to take-down I don't feel like we lost anything. I want more substance!

Overall, Thor 2 was either the second worst, or worst marvel film. Toss up between this & Iron Man 2.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the film, or that it is bad. In my heart, it is insignificant. That's OK.

EDIT: I do wanna say that I really like the mythology of Thor (dark elves, realms aligning, the HAMMER) and seeing it on screen is a treat!

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Old 12-06-2013, 08:33 AM   #742
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Just saw this film. I feel it lacked a thematic focus. The first film triumphantly presented the pantheon & the challenge of what it means to be a righteous king, the drama of familial connections, etc.

Whereas this one felt inconsequential, to a degree. Sure, there's loose ends to be tied up - but they're not interesting to me on a spiritual level. This film didn't question my world view or present any statements on life that moved me to a notable degree.

That's not to say that it didn't connect on an emotional level - Frigga's story and the impact on her children was intriguing but I feel like more could be juiced out of it.

I am a fan of Marvel humor and will say that I enjoyed all of it - it doesn't bother me at all. Perhaps some runtime could be better devoted towards narrative; in a film like this however where the narrative is little more than flashy lights and a big baddy to take-down I don't feel like we lost anything. I want more substance!

Overall, Thor 2 was either the second worst, or worst marvel film. Toss up between this & Iron Man 2.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the film, or that it is bad. In my heart, it is insignificant. That's OK.

EDIT: I do wanna say that I really like the mythology of Thor (dark elves, realms aligning, the HAMMER) and seeing it on screen is a treat! My
Even though I thought it wasn't as good as the first, it's definitely not the worst MCU film. And I must say, seeing TDW for a second time really helped to improve my opinion of it too.

To me, IM2 and 3 and Captain America were far worst. I put TDW 4th after Thor, The Avengers and Iron Man.

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Old 12-06-2013, 09:24 PM   #743
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To me, IM2 and 3 and Captain America were far worst. I put TDW 4th after Thor, The Avengers and Iron Man.
I concur.

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Old 12-09-2013, 11:05 AM   #744
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

....It MUST be a generation gap type thing, I didn't think Fist Avenger was horrible at all.
To ME my list goes Avengers, TDW, Thor, First avenger, IM, IM3, TIH, and IM2, I could go on but I won't include the OTHER studio's marvel films or WB/DC's

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Old 12-09-2013, 11:35 AM   #745
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

Likewise. I can't really comprehend the hate Cap 1 gets. Or rather, I can understand why the "true art is angsty" types would hate it, but I don't really understand why people who are largely fans of the MCU otherwise dislike it.

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Old 12-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #746
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Vartha View Post
....It MUST be a generation gap type thing, I didn't think Fist Avenger was horrible at all.
To ME my list goes Avengers, TDW, Thor, First avenger, IM, IM3, TIH, and IM2, I could go on but I won't include the OTHER studio's marvel films or WB/DC's
That's my list down to the letter, I read today that when TDW crosses the $200 million mark domestically it will be the first MCU without RDJ to do so.

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Old 12-10-2013, 11:44 AM   #747
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

I love CA:TFA. I think it was a fun action movie in the style of an "Indiana Jones" type film. I loved Hugo Weaving and he is my 2nd favorite MCU villain after Hiddleston.

Marvel Studios has yet to make a real stinker. However people want to rank the films none have received a rotten rating, and all have been successful enough to garner sequels. The least successful may have been TIH, but it was really hamstrung by Ang Lee's film. Certainly not the popularity of the character, as people loved the Hulk in Avengers.

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Old 12-10-2013, 12:40 PM   #748
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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I love CA:TFA. I think it was a fun action movie in the style of an "Indiana Jones" type film. I loved Hugo Weaving and he is my 2nd favorite MCU villain after Hiddleston.

Marvel Studios has yet to make a real stinker. However people want to rank the films none have received a rotten rating, and all have been successful enough to garner sequels. The least successful may have been TIH, but it was really hamstrung by Ang Lee's film. Certainly not the popularity of the character, as people loved the Hulk in Avengers.
Agreed on everything.

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Old 12-13-2013, 12:59 AM   #749
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

good blog about why loki should have died

http://ponderingsofacinephile.wordpr...-world-ending/

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Old 12-13-2013, 09:01 AM   #750
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

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That's my list down to the letter, I read today that when TDW crosses the $200 million mark domestically it will be the first MCU without RDJ to do so.
I have nothing against RDJ, I actually love his acting, but, yeah it would be cool to have that happen.

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