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Old 11-21-2013, 04:31 AM   #351
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 2

No, I see your points. I guess...I just have always wanted him above the fray. I always want him to find another option, but I accepted this is the Superman that is on screen. It just worries me a bit because it's so...not like the Superman I know.

I also don't think you're over-interpreting at all. The Joker was a terrorist. He was probably the absolute definition of the word in TDK.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:43 AM   #352
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That's an interesting premise that I have never heard stated that way. For me it's just that both of those stories are just too preachy and angle to much on the religious angle for both characters. I always recommend staying away from that.
Just on this, All-Star Superman is far from 'religious' (if we're referring to Christianity, Catholicism etc). Morrison is staunchly against all that, referring to those kind of religions and the concept of god as 'a ghastly blight on the face of society'. If anything, the closest would probably be Humanism.

And, All-Star is my absolute favourite comic ever, my favourite Superman of any medium. And I'm an Atheist.

Kingdom Come... Yeah, Ross is definitely into the Christianity side of things. Don't know about Waid. But I still love that story, too.

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Old 11-21-2013, 05:27 AM   #353
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:09 AM   #354
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Just on this, All-Star Superman is far from 'religious' (if we're referring to Christianity, Catholicism etc). Morrison is staunchly against all that, referring to those kind of religions and the concept of god as 'a ghastly blight on the face of society'. If anything, the closest would probably be Humanism.

And, All-Star is my absolute favourite comic ever, my favourite Superman of any medium. And I'm an Atheist.

Kingdom Come... Yeah, Ross is definitely into the Christianity side of things. Don't know about Waid. But I still love that story, too.
Kingdom Come is probably my favourite Superman story. Despite the fact that I'm an atheist, I also appreciate all the religious allusions.

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Old 11-21-2013, 07:18 AM   #355
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Well said. I firmly believe that Superman's optimism and resilience in the face of adversity is what makes him such an inspiring character.

People's preference for Superman or Batman seems directly proportional to whether they are an optimist or a pessimist in regards to human nature.
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Superman stories always seem to emphasize the idea that anyone can be a force for good. I forget exactly where it was from, but there's this Superman story where Big Blue picks up a two-bit young crook and says something to the effect of, "Son, I know where you're coming from, but you don't want to do this."

Batman, on the other hand, would likely scare the guy senseless. If he were to abandon his criminal ways, it would likely be due to fear of the Bat.

Maybe that's the biggest difference between Supes and Bats - appealing to hope vs. fear.
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It's one of the clear cut differences between the two. Also trust vs suspicion.

See, I'm not really a fan of this when it comes to Batman and Superman. I for one, am actually pretty optimistic and hopeful, but I still prefer Batman.

I think its way too easy to paint Batman into a corner and force the whole "Fear/suspicion/cynicism" angle. In my opinion, Batman is a lot more than that. When you say Superman represents hope and Batman fear, I feel that Superman is being portrayed in a far better light, while Batman looks like a scrooge.

I much prefer him to be shown as the courageous, dedicated hero who uses fear because he has no powers, and does what he must. His bravery and INCORRUPTIBLE WILLPOWER should be his defining traits, IMO. He's just as heroic as Superman, if not more. We can have some fear/hope dichotomy, but I hate it when it's forced down our throats.

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Old 11-21-2013, 07:52 AM   #356
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Just on this, All-Star Superman is far from 'religious' (if we're referring to Christianity, Catholicism etc). Morrison is staunchly against all that, referring to those kind of religions and the concept of god as 'a ghastly blight on the face of society'. If anything, the closest would probably be Humanism.

And, All-Star is my absolute favourite comic ever, my favourite Superman of any medium. And I'm an Atheist.

Kingdom Come... Yeah, Ross is definitely into the Christianity side of things. Don't know about Waid. But I still love that story, too.
Whoa what is that an actual quote. Morrison always struck me as very understanding and appreciative of each religion, whilst not subscribing to them himself. Which is the same way I always considered Superman would be as well.

All-Star definitely posits Superman as a 'secular messiah' (Morrison's words) and shows all the progress and aspiration he inspired from humanity in the book. I always am reminded of that scene in For all Seasons though where he's attending church in Smallville after a flood I think it is. But I'm curious if Morrison really did call religion a 'blight on society' lol.

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:15 AM   #357
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Whoa what is that an actual quote. Morrison always struck me as very understanding and appreciative of each religion, whilst not subscribing to them himself. Which is the same way I always considered Superman would be as well.

All-Star definitely posits Superman as a 'secular messiah' (Morrison's words) and shows all the progress and aspiration he inspired from humanity in the book. I always am reminded of that scene in For all Seasons though where he's attending church in Smallville after a flood I think it is. But I'm curious if Morrison really did call religion a 'blight on society' lol.
It was in one of the longer interviews he did when the last issue of All-Star came out, over five years ago now, so the wording may be off. But that was the gist of it, from memory.

I know what you mean, so I'll see if I can track it down.

EDIT: That was way easier than I thought it would be -

Quote:
NRAMA: On a personal level, you’ve explored all types of religions and philosophies in your work. What is your take on religion and how it influences humanity, and the Christian take on Jesus Christ in particular?

GM: I think religion per se, is a ghastly blight on the progress of the human species towards the stars. At the same time, it, or something like it, has been an undeniable source of comfort, meaning and hope for the majority of poor bastards who have ever lived on Earth, so I’m not trying to write it off completely. I just wish that more people were educated to a standard where they could understand what religion is and how it works. Yes, it got us through the night for a while, but ultimately, it’s one of those ugly, stupid arse–over–backwards things we could probably do without now, here on the Planet of the Apes.
Religion is to spirituality what porn is to sex. It’s what the Hollywood 3–act story template is to real creative writing.
Religion creates a structure which places “special,” privileged people (priests) between ordinary people and the divine, as if there could even be any separation: as if every moment, every thought, every action was not already an expression of dynamic ‘divinity” at work.
So I did get the wording a little wrong, but most of the sentiment is the same. He's firmly against religious organizations, but all for spirituality and belief, though not necessarily in 'god', but more about self and each other, which makes a lot of sense for him and was a big part of All-Star.

Much more at the link: http://www.newsarama.com/1425-all-st...uperman-9.html

It's a very in-depth, ten part interview covering a huge range of things in and around All-Star Superman. Excellent read.

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:21 AM   #358
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I have never been able to get on board with Batman's revenge angle. Supes is different in that he always has hope. Hope can be one of the hardest things to find in life. So that is what he has always represented to me.

edit:

I LOVE how they touched on the symbol as meaning HOPE.

Exactly!
Supes has this thing in him : he is fair, good, a perfect hero with lots of good rules, who never obeys to his angry feelings when fighting against someone.
Plus, he can fly.

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:36 AM   #359
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 2

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It was in one of the longer interviews he did when the last issue of All-Star came out, over five years ago now, so the wording may be off. But that was the gist of it, from memory.

I know what you mean, so I'll see if I can track it down.

EDIT: That was way easier than I thought it would be -

So I did get the wording a little wrong, but most of the sentiment is the same. He's firmly against religious organizations, but all for spirituality and belief, though not necessarily in 'god', but more about self and each other, which makes a lot of sense for him and was a big part of All-Star.

Much more at the link: http://www.newsarama.com/1425-all-st...uperman-9.html

It's a very in-depth, ten part interview covering a huge range of things in and around All-Star Superman. Excellent read.
Wow cheers, thanks alot for that.

That's actually a great quote. Couldn't agree more with Morrison there.

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Old 11-21-2013, 04:10 PM   #360
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 2

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Just on this, All-Star Superman is far from 'religious' (if we're referring to Christianity, Catholicism etc). Morrison is staunchly against all that, referring to those kind of religions and the concept of god as 'a ghastly blight on the face of society'. If anything, the closest would probably be Humanism.

And, All-Star is my absolute favourite comic ever, my favourite Superman of any medium. And I'm an Atheist.

Kingdom Come... Yeah, Ross is definitely into the Christianity side of things. Don't know about Waid. But I still love that story, too.
Someone said it earlier, but he definitely is like a secular Jesus Christ in that story.

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Exactly!
Supes has this thing in him : he is fair, good, a perfect hero with lots of good rules, who never obeys to his angry feelings when fighting against someone.
Plus, he can fly.
We are on the same wavelength. Just something about Supes...lol

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:33 PM   #361
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The Different Stages of Clark's Life/Journey:




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Old 11-21-2013, 08:35 PM   #362
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 2

You're missing the part where he gets to make out with a chick in the middle of destruction.

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #363
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You're missing the part where he gets to make out with a chick in the middle of destruction.

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:46 PM   #364
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See, I'm not really a fan of this when it comes to Batman and Superman. I for one, am actually pretty optimistic and hopeful, but I still prefer Batman.

I think its way too easy to paint Batman into a corner and force the whole "Fear/suspicion/cynicism" angle. In my opinion, Batman is a lot more than that. When you say Superman represents hope and Batman fear, I feel that Superman is being portrayed in a far better light, while Batman looks like a scrooge.

I much prefer him to be shown as the courageous, dedicated hero who uses fear because he has no powers, and does what he must. His bravery and INCORRUPTIBLE WILLPOWER should be his defining traits, IMO. He's just as heroic as Superman, if not more. We can have some fear/hope dichotomy, but I hate it when it's forced down our throats.
Batman is a force for good with different methods, same with Superman. I’ll bring Kingdom Come up again, but at the end Clark says despite their differences, he’s always been able to trust Bruce. Batman is optimistic for the future, but believes in constant vigilance in getting there. I raised the point in another thread before – how would Superman go if he didn’t have super powers? Would his methods change as a result? That’s one thing I’d like to see explored, his values and viewpoints ultimately being stronger than his powers.

Superman: We can be more than this, Bruce
Batman: They’re not ready
Superman: When they are, I’ll be here
Batman: In the meantime, this is how it is

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:50 PM   #365
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:53 PM   #366
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Uncanny....wow

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #367
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The Different Stages of Clark's Life/Journey:



Great casting with teenage Clark. He looks just like Henry. Great collage.

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Old 11-21-2013, 09:24 PM   #368
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I think the CW should be trying to sign young Clark for something.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #369
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Batman is a force for good with different methods, same with Superman. I’ll bring Kingdom Come up again, but at the end Clark says despite their differences, he’s always been able to trust Bruce. Batman is optimistic for the future, but believes in constant vigilance in getting there. I raised the point in another thread before – how would Superman go if he didn’t have super powers? Would his methods change as a result? That’s one thing I’d like to see explored, his values and viewpoints ultimately being stronger than his powers.

Superman: We can be more than this, Bruce
Batman: They’re not ready
Superman: When they are, I’ll be here
Batman: In the meantime, this is how it is
Right, I'd like for both the character to make each other stronger, while not being dependent on each other.

In other words, I think the right dichotomy shows that both Batman and Superman would be fine by themselves (not overly cynical or fear mongering for Bats or too naive for Supes), but when they meet each other, both of them gain something from the other.

And for the Kingdom Come reference (great source btw) I feel they did a great job. Batman and Superman BOTH just wanted to save as many lives as possible, but had different ways of doing it. In fact, although its usually Batman who is depicted as the flawed, stubborn one, its Superman who chooses to solve every problem by overpowering it and locking it up. And Batman is the one who is against this and chooses to enforce justice through teamwork, intellect, and trust. So it can go either way.

As for what qualities Batman should have, again in Kingdom Come Superman says to Batman "Strip away everything from the Batman, and all you're left with is just someone who doesn't want to see anyone die. That's an important part of Batman, more so than his use of fear or his distrust of people.

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Old 11-21-2013, 10:22 PM   #370
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based on what I remember hearing from Cavil's interview on the special features in MOS, it seems like he was working as a bartender during the period when he was struggling to get roles, which is ironic considering that Clark did the same thing in the film.lol

I'm glad to hear that he finally got a big break when he landed this role and others before it, and I hope this role opens up new avenues for him.

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Old 11-22-2013, 08:22 AM   #371
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Yeah, it's kind of odd that it took him this long to hit it big, honestly. The guy seems like he's a movie producer's wet dream: good actor with leading man presence, good looking, and carries himself really well in real life.

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Old 11-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #372
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Yeah, it's kind of odd that it took him this long to hit it big, honestly. The guy seems like he's a movie producer's wet dream: good actor with leading man presence, good looking, and carries himself really well in real life.
He had so many misses.

Was up for Bond, it was between him and Craig. Craig won!

Was up for 300, but backed out due to Bond auditions which he lost too.

WON the role of Superman, but the project got shelved.

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Old 11-22-2013, 09:56 AM   #373
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Yeah, I remember a reporter called him "the unluckiest man in Hollywood" at one point.

I still hope they consider him for Bond when Craig hangs it up. He would be perfect for it. But I think that playing Superman and another spy character in what could ultimately be another franchise will keep him out of the running.

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Old 11-22-2013, 10:03 AM   #374
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 2

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He had so many misses.

Was up for Bond, it was between him and Craig. Craig won!

Was up for 300, but backed out due to Bond auditions which he lost too.

WON the role of Superman, but the project got shelved.
Was that ever confirmed? There were so many names around that time, Brendan Fraser, Bomer, Cavill, Victor Webster... It was probably a good thing he didn't get it, he was, uh, not the best in Tristan and Isolde, which was around the same time he would have been filming the McG Superman movie. He could have faced some major Hayden Christensen-level criticism.

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Old 11-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #375
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Was that ever confirmed? There were so many names around that time, Brendan Fraser, Bomer, Cavill, Victor Webster... It was probably a good thing he didn't get it, he was, uh, not the best in Tristan and Isolde, which was around the same time he would have been filming the McG Superman movie. He could have faced some major Hayden Christensen-level criticism.
Yeah, he was definitely cast in the McG Superman, but then it didn't happen.

It probably was for the best though. McG has NEVER made a good movie.

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