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Old 11-16-2013, 03:20 AM   #101
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Why would it be stupid for Superman to have trouble with Metallo? He's a cyborg with a huge chunk of the thing that is deadly to Superman in his chest. It make pefect sense that Superman would have problems dealing with him. He can't even get close to Metallo without being affected by the Kryptonite. Also, the SS thing from TW wasn't stupid either since:
A. Silver Samurai's sword was ALSO made out of Adamantium.
B. It was bigger and denser than Wolverine's claws.
C. The sword was super-heated Adamantium.
If metallo has the K, isnt superman stupid enough to engage in a close battle? Can't he blast him 100m away? If K is available, u don't need a cyberg to do the job. Any thug or batman will suffice.

Have some facts right, if a metal is heated, it will get soften or melt. It won't get harder.

If something is super special n indestructible made as the main feature, it shall be extremely rare. It lost its charm when it can be found in abundance n be made in armor.
Same goes to the K rock.

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Old 11-16-2013, 04:12 AM   #102
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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DA_Champion said this nicely. The Avengers wasn't praised because of its battle scenes. It was because of the story and the nuances that Whedon added. And as a result, it made the battle that much more rewarding. If you watch the final battle as a standalone, it isn't all that great. One of the biggest knock I'd have to give is that the Chitauris were basically ****-auris. No sense of challenge at all when fighting them, so you kind of get the sense that the Avengers would win anyways.

Again, you keep operating under the idea that you HAVE to raise the stakes for the sequels, except stories may not fit properly into that formula. For instance, Spider-Man 2 and X-2 come to mind as stories where they didn't amp up the action (or at the very least, didn't escalate as much) in relation to their prequels, and they were still successful for it. Having Zod and Superman's fight destroy a city block (that mind you, the audience is either split on or downright hated that creative choice), and then introduce a character that has even more thirst for wanton destruction. That won't sit right with people. So a story has to be developed around making Superman the man he is.

Zod is closely adapted from the comics. He may not be the exact same Zod, but he's close enough that no one would mistake him for Zod. The problem is, how do you re-write Doomsday so that he's not Zod v.2.0 or another dumb destructive villain when he's destroying **** in Metropolis? I'd rather he be kept for the conclusion.

How would it be pure and dumb? You introduce a way to weaken Superman. Was it dumb that Superman was weakened in MOS whenever he entered a place that had Kryptonian atmosphere? That was basically how Kryptonite works without blatantly saying it's Kryptonite. At least the pseudo-science behind it made some sense. It can be effective if it's well-thought out a la MOS.



Misquote. :P



That's not what I said. I said it seems very unlikely that it would appear in the sequels. And by this, I meant I'm assuming that the lore involving Kryptonite may be radically re-worked in order to fit the tone and logic of their movie.

I'm not saying it as if it came from Snyder's mouth. I'm not that idiotic and I've read that article you speak of where Snyder left Kryptonite as a potential plot device for sequels.
Since when did I say T Avengers made billions because of the action???
I said MOS 2 has a tough battle, n Doomsday will add as another exciting selling point, besides batman.

U keep saying they might make good story 4 the K rock n Metallo, u know for the very same reason, they can too for the Doomsday. Isnt it?

My point is... u pick the best selling villain for the climate / main fight (like joker, catwoman n bane for batman) did Nolan pick mad hatter, harley quinn?

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Old 11-16-2013, 04:14 AM   #103
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

They cannot tell the story of Doomsday from the comics in MoS II, it simply will not work.

As such, if Doomsday is in the movie, it will either be a totally different character (to make the story work) in which case your thread doesn't apply, or the movie will suck.

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Old 11-16-2013, 04:43 AM   #104
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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They cannot tell the story of Doomsday from the comics in MoS II, it simply will not work.

As such, if Doomsday is in the movie, it will either be a totally different character (to make the story work) in which case your thread doesn't apply, or the movie will suck.
U know sometimes we r like a frog in a well thinking the sky is just that big.

it's time for u to leap out fr the well.

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Old 11-16-2013, 04:54 AM   #105
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

Doomsday is a great character and I get wanting to see him now. But part of what makes him great is the story. If they wait to tell the Doomsday story when the time is right, we'll get a good movie.

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Old 11-16-2013, 05:50 AM   #106
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

Doomsday
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Pick one.

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Old 11-16-2013, 05:53 AM   #107
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

Doomsday is more a plot device than a real character. A plot device that simple doesn't work in this film.

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #108
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

Metallo might work if the kryptonite was used a power source small enough to power a cyborg that could take on Superman- with supermans weakness to it an unknown at the start. He could be constructed of kryptonian tech salvaged by Lexcorp which would be why he can take a hit from superman, maybe Bats then has to swoop in and save supes.
If they were to do Doomsday, for me, it has to be close to the one from the comics. He could have some link to the Kryptonian settlements Zod visited before earth in the film, or something was in one of the ships that turns into doomsday.

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:27 PM   #109
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Since when did I say T Avengers made billions because of the action???
I said MOS 2 has a tough battle, n Doomsday will add as another exciting selling point, besides batman.
You said and I quote:
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the Avenger has made billions and universally praised. the same can't be said to MOS. u gotta raise the stake in order to battle the titans.
That statement implied that you need action above all else in order to have a good film. Which is why I argued the contrary to begin with.

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U keep saying they might make good story 4 the K rock n Metallo, u know for the very same reason, they can too for the Doomsday. Isnt it?

My point is... u pick the best selling villain for the climate / main fight (like joker, catwoman n bane for batman) did Nolan pick mad hatter, harley quinn?
Did you not read the question I posed in my post? I asked you how would it be possible to write a changed and good story on Doomsday? It's extremely difficult (at least to me, which is why I asked, so we could theorize on how we could change the story to fit the sequel, if possible).

No you don't have to. You only listed Nolan as an example because he used that formula to its best. I just gave you two examples of how sequels didn't exactly have the best villains and yet they were awesome films. Spider-Man 2 had Doctor Octopus, who is an iconic villain don't get me wrong, but the action sequence in Spider-Man 2 wasn't grandiose (Octavius wasn't destroying city...but rather Spider-Man was put in a position to save people, let alone an entire train). Same for X2. The point is, not all sequels have to raise the stakes when it comes to action sequences.

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:31 PM   #110
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Doomsday
Character

Pick one.


To me, bringing Doomsday into this film would just be validation of my fears regarding Snyder's adolescent, man child style and tastes in filmmaking. Bigger =/= Better Also, even if I liked Doomsday, it's like how Orci and Kurtzman went straight for Khan before he was earned or made narrative sense.

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:35 PM   #111
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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To me, bringing Doomsday into this film would just be validation of my fears regarding Snyder's adolescent, man child style and tastes in filmmaking. Bigger =/= Better Also, even if I liked Doomsday, it's like how Orci and Kurtzman went straight for Khan before he was earned or made narrative sense.
As much as I think of Snyder as an underrated filmmaker, if he was to go to Doomsday as a villain, that would just be ridiculous and unnecessary. And it would only help his detractors even more.

Doomsday has to be earned. And adding him to the MOS lore in the sequel doesn't make much sense.

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Old 11-16-2013, 09:05 PM   #112
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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If metallo has the K, isnt superman stupid enough to engage in a close battle? Can't he blast him 100m away? If K is available, u don't need a cyberg to do the job. Any thug or batman will suffice.

Have some facts right, if a metal is heated, it will get soften or melt. It won't get harder.

If something is super special n indestructible made as the main feature, it shall be extremely rare. It lost its charm when it can be found in abundance n be made in armor.
Same goes to the K rock.
No he cant, Metallo is still much stronger than a normal human, so it's not even remotely the same thing. Superman can do things to normal humans that he can't do to Metallo. Also, you're really going to bring real science into a comic book movie, seriously? Lady Deathstrike had an adamantium skeleton in X2 and Stryker had vats of the stuff, it being indestructible has NOTHING to do with it being rare. Plus, it took Yashida decades to get enough to build his suit so clearly it's not all that common.

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Old 11-16-2013, 10:38 PM   #113
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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No he cant, Metallo is still much stronger than a normal human, so it's not even remotely the same thing. Superman can do things to normal humans that he can't do to Metallo. Also, you're really going to bring real science into a comic book movie, seriously? Lady Deathstrike had an adamantium skeleton in X2 and Stryker had vats of the stuff, it being indestructible has NOTHING to do with it being rare. Plus, it took Yashida decades to get enough to build his suit so clearly it's not all that common.
that's why it has lost its charm...
like superman can hardly defeat a cyborg and everyone in smallville can find a peice of K stone at their backyard.

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Old 11-16-2013, 10:41 PM   #114
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Doomsday
Character

Pick one.
i don't see the two are contradicting. they are complimenting each other in fact.

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Old 11-16-2013, 10:49 PM   #115
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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As much as I think of Snyder as an underrated filmmaker, if he was to go to Doomsday as a villain, that would just be ridiculous and unnecessary. And it would only help his detractors even more.

Doomsday has to be earned. And adding him to the MOS lore in the sequel doesn't make much sense.
should he care? should he do things differently just to please those who disagree / dislike him???

u know what doesn't make sense, a super billionaire goes to do criminal fighting himself.

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Old 11-16-2013, 11:06 PM   #116
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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You said and I quote:

That statement implied that you need action above all else in order to have a good film. Which is why I argued the contrary to begin with.



Did you not read the question I posed in my post? I asked you how would it be possible to write a changed and good story on Doomsday? It's extremely difficult (at least to me, which is why I asked, so we could theorize on how we could change the story to fit the sequel, if possible).

No you don't have to. You only listed Nolan as an example because he used that formula to its best. I just gave you two examples of how sequels didn't exactly have the best villains and yet they were awesome films. Spider-Man 2 had Doctor Octopus, who is an iconic villain don't get me wrong, but the action sequence in Spider-Man 2 wasn't grandiose (Octavius wasn't destroying city...but rather Spider-Man was put in a position to save people, let alone an entire train). Same for X2. The point is, not all sequels have to raise the stakes when it comes to action sequences.
u got it wrong then. i said they need to bring in the best villain in order to battle the titans (Avengers 2) Ask the general folks, between metallo and doomsday, which name they have heard of and familiar with.

my whole point is metallo is just a sub-villain who doesn't worth for a final showdown. however, Doomsday will have everybody discuss and concern about the movie... the ultimate question... will they kill superman in MOS2!!!??? it will shoot the hype to the 7th heaven height.

spidey 2 was among one of the best action superhero movies. btw, best action doesn't mean destroying city. on the other hand, can't say much on X2... because i can't remember much... the story and the action...

it is so weird that you guys keep assuming adding in doomsday will 100% screw up the movie.. and sacrifice the characters development. you know if the know-how teams are suck, they will screw up the movie no matter how; even as simple as adding in lex and batman.

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Old 11-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #117
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u got it wrong then. i said they need to bring in the best villain in order to battle the titans (Avengers 2) Ask the general folks, between metallo and doomsday, which name they have heard of and familiar with.
Why would you even care about what the competition is doing? The focus should be on the logistics of the story regardless of what the competition is doing.

It's not about what big-name you need, it's about how well it's developed into the story. Spider-Man 3 sucked because Sony wanted a big name (Venom) despite the fact that Sam Raimi had a story to tell. His story suffered because of adding the big name. I'm not saying that it's going to happen to every movie, but rather there's a time and a place for certain things.

Therefore, I'm not saying Doomsday flatout sucks, but rather he's not the right character/plot device at the moment. And I'm not sure you've argued otherwise very effectively.

If you've read the comics, you know that a Doomsday storyline usually features the Justice League (due to the scale of the fights, and destruction). For that to happen, you'd need to flesh out the characters even more and have them be familiarized in a world that does not believe superheroes exist. And if so, they probably dislike them. You need that to be developed before you can take on such a grand plot device/character such as Doomsday.

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my whole point is metallo is just a sub-villain who doesn't worth for a final showdown. however, Doomsday will have everybody discuss and concern about the movie... the ultimate question... will they kill superman in MOS2!!!??? it will shoot the hype to the 7th heaven height.
Arbitrariness at its finest. First you say Metallo is not worth it because you think he's a subvillain in the story. But you accept Doomsday as a possibility because it would create hype and discussion, while completely ignoring how he'd fit into the story. So which is it? Hype or story?

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spidey 2 was among one of the best action superhero movies. btw, best action doesn't mean destroying city. on the other hand, can't say much on X2... because i can't remember much... the story and the action...

it is so weird that you guys keep assuming adding in doomsday will 100% screw up the movie.. and sacrifice the characters development. you know if the know-how teams are suck, they will screw up the movie no matter how; even as simple as adding in lex and batman.
That's not what I meant. I said that the action sequences in relation to the prequels weren't as grandiose (Green Goblin vs. Doctor Octopus, Magneto vs. Stryker and his crew respectively). And it felt a lot more intimate since the sequels furthered character development. Which is why I love Spider-Man II and X2 despite them not having to absurdly raise the stakes as expected.

But you simply don't get it. We're saying that he's not right for the time being. Meaning, we'd rather see him in a future film. Mainly because there hasn't been any build up to him, and two, why would we even want to attempt to kill Superman THIS early? Doomsday can be re-written so that Superman's alive, but even then, what's the point of using him when other DC properties can fill the role much better? If he's re-written in that way, then this is basically Zod v.2.0 and repetitive. And critics and parts of the audience already bashed MOS for its repetitive action, this would only extend the hate even further.

And for me personally, I view the Justice League and Doomsday as synonymous because of the scale required. THe Justice League could be responsible for saving civilians, while Superman gets full attention in fighting Doomsday. Now that sounds more badass than simply Batman + Superman vs. Doomsday.

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Old 11-17-2013, 12:10 AM   #118
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Why would you even care about what the competition is doing? The focus should be on the logistics of the story regardless of what the competition is doing.

It's not about what big-name you need, it's about how well it's developed into the story. Spider-Man 3 sucked because Sony wanted a big name (Venom) despite the fact that Sam Raimi had a story to tell. His story suffered because of adding the big name. I'm not saying that it's going to happen to every movie, but rather there's a time and a place for certain things.

Therefore, I'm not saying Doomsday flatout sucks, but rather he's not the right character/plot device at the moment. And I'm not sure you've argued otherwise very effectively.

If you've read the comics, you know that a Doomsday storyline usually features the Justice League (due to the scale of the fights, and destruction). For that to happen, you'd need to flesh out the characters even more and have them be familiarized in a world that does not believe superheroes exist. And if so, they probably dislike them. You need that to be developed before you can take on such a grand plot device/character such as Doomsday.



Arbitrariness at its finest. First you say Metallo is not worth it because you think he's a subvillain in the story. But you accept Doomsday as a possibility because it would create hype and discussion, while completely ignoring how he'd fit into the story. So which is it? Hype or story?



That's not what I meant. I said that the action sequences in relation to the prequels weren't as grandiose (Green Goblin vs. Doctor Octopus, Magneto vs. Stryker and his crew respectively). And it felt a lot more intimate since the sequels furthered character development. Which is why I love Spider-Man II and X2 despite them not having to absurdly raise the stakes as expected.

But you simply don't get it. We're saying that he's not right for the time being. Meaning, we'd rather see him in a future film. Mainly because there hasn't been any build up to him, and two, why would we even want to attempt to kill Superman THIS early? Doomsday can be re-written so that Superman's alive, but even then, what's the point of using him when other DC properties can fill the role much better? If he's re-written in that way, then this is basically Zod v.2.0 and repetitive. And critics and parts of the audience already bashed MOS for its repetitive action, this would only extend the hate even further.

And for me personally, I view the Justice League and Doomsday as synonymous because of the scale required. THe Justice League could be responsible for saving civilians, while Superman gets full attention in fighting Doomsday. Now that sounds more badass than simply Batman + Superman vs. Doomsday.
Outstanding.

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Old 11-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #119
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I really want a Doomsday movie, but I agree with DA Champion. For us to truly feel the emotional impact of a Death of Superman story, we need to be more invested in the character. Maybe he could be the villain in the JLA movie to set it apart from the Avengers (which had a mastermind villain like Brainiac and Darkseid).

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Old 11-17-2013, 12:48 AM   #120
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For a physical threat to Superman and Batman all they need is a combo of Metallo and Parasite. Metallo is a high tech cybernetic organism that is a product of Luthor's that he uses for both assassinations and for framing Superman or the like. Able to change the outer shell to look like almost anyone and powered by a curious radioactive material found at the site of the WE, the material is something created by the WE process that was stopped midway by Superman. Parasite should be a regular worker exposed to some exotic nano-substance from the ancient K-scout ship. He turns into a life force feeding human leech, but his presence and actions are actually more in the background of the whole movie, like a suspected serial killer that is making more kills everyday but because of the conflict between Superman, Batman and Luthor he's gone unchecked until the end when he saps Superman of half his strength and only banding together can Superman, Batman and Luthor defeat him. This leaves Luthor around for another film and also gives Superman and Batman a physical foe to fight who has an ability that is more dangerous to them than Corben's mechanical body.

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Old 11-17-2013, 10:31 PM   #121
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Why would you even care about what the competition is doing? The focus should be on the logistics of the story regardless of what the competition is doing.

It's not about what big-name you need, it's about how well it's developed into the story. Spider-Man 3 sucked because Sony wanted a big name (Venom) despite the fact that Sam Raimi had a story to tell. His story suffered because of adding the big name. I'm not saying that it's going to happen to every movie, but rather there's a time and a place for certain things.

Therefore, I'm not saying Doomsday flatout sucks, but rather he's not the right character/plot device at the moment. And I'm not sure you've argued otherwise very effectively.

If you've read the comics, you know that a Doomsday storyline usually features the Justice League (due to the scale of the fights, and destruction). For that to happen, you'd need to flesh out the characters even more and have them be familiarized in a world that does not believe superheroes exist. And if so, they probably dislike them. You need that to be developed before you can take on such a grand plot device/character such as Doomsday.



Arbitrariness at its finest. First you say Metallo is not worth it because you think he's a subvillain in the story. But you accept Doomsday as a possibility because it would create hype and discussion, while completely ignoring how he'd fit into the story. So which is it? Hype or story?



That's not what I meant. I said that the action sequences in relation to the prequels weren't as grandiose (Green Goblin vs. Doctor Octopus, Magneto vs. Stryker and his crew respectively). And it felt a lot more intimate since the sequels furthered character development. Which is why I love Spider-Man II and X2 despite them not having to absurdly raise the stakes as expected.

But you simply don't get it. We're saying that he's not right for the time being. Meaning, we'd rather see him in a future film. Mainly because there hasn't been any build up to him, and two, why would we even want to attempt to kill Superman THIS early? Doomsday can be re-written so that Superman's alive, but even then, what's the point of using him when other DC properties can fill the role much better? If he's re-written in that way, then this is basically Zod v.2.0 and repetitive. And critics and parts of the audience already bashed MOS for its repetitive action, this would only extend the hate even further.

And for me personally, I view the Justice League and Doomsday as synonymous because of the scale required. THe Justice League could be responsible for saving civilians, while Superman gets full attention in fighting Doomsday. Now that sounds more badass than simply Batman + Superman vs. Doomsday.
you are right. they should focus on their own story. at this point, we have no idea what villains they will bring in. what if they think Doomsday is the best villain for the story just like they think this is the right time to get in batman. thus we don't get a MOS solo sequel.

why Doomsday can't be a plot device???

let say the main theme for MOS 2 is to see superman earning the trust of the people at the end of the movie (a very high possible and is a good theme i believe). Doomsday is just perfect for the theme, isn't it?

what, Metallo can do the job too? seriously, you think our own military weaponry can't take down a cyborg??? we don't even need the blue cladded alien for the job. we can solve it ourself, don't u think?

Venow is never the reason why Spidey 3 is poor. in fact, Venow is one of the exciting factors that makes Spidey 3 watchable. Spidey 3 is poor because they ignored on the story between Peter and his best friend (the whole trilogy main idea) and they jamming in a stupid villain called sandman.

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Old 11-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #122
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
For a physical threat to Superman and Batman all they need is a combo of Metallo and Parasite. Metallo is a high tech cybernetic organism that is a product of Luthor's that he uses for both assassinations and for framing Superman or the like. Able to change the outer shell to look like almost anyone and powered by a curious radioactive material found at the site of the WE, the material is something created by the WE process that was stopped midway by Superman. Parasite should be a regular worker exposed to some exotic nano-substance from the ancient K-scout ship. He turns into a life force feeding human leech, but his presence and actions are actually more in the background of the whole movie, like a suspected serial killer that is making more kills everyday but because of the conflict between Superman, Batman and Luthor he's gone unchecked until the end when he saps Superman of half his strength and only banding together can Superman, Batman and Luthor defeat him. This leaves Luthor around for another film and also gives Superman and Batman a physical foe to fight who has an ability that is more dangerous to them than Corben's mechanical body.
dislike the idea. as jamming in another 2 villians will definitely take away some precious screen time. and high possible making the story for the main characters (clark, lois, bruce, lex) half baked.

that's why i prefer doomsday so much. you don't have to develop him much. he is here to bang and bang like a super natural disaster. thus, saving the precious time to develop the main characters. you know, like they can take the time to make the audiences love and hate lex at the same time (just like joker / loki)

in short, doomsday, metallo, parasite, bizzaro, mongul... are like foara n nam ek, thehunchmen. you don't wanna spend too much time on them. on the other hand, lex, brainiac, darkside are like general zod, the big bosses where an appropriate of time is required to develop these characters.

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:15 AM   #123
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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you are right. they should focus on their own story. at this point, we have no idea what villains they will bring in. what if they think Doomsday is the best villain for the story just like they think this is the right time to get in batman. thus we don't get a MOS solo sequel.

why Doomsday can't be a plot device???

let say the main theme for MOS 2 is to see superman earning the trust of the people at the end of the movie (a very high possible and is a good theme i believe). Doomsday is just perfect for the theme, isn't it?
How is it perfect...? You need to explain that to me. The reason why I don't want Doomsday to be in MOSII/BvS is because there's no build up to Doomsday's origin and how he came to Earth (open pod is Kara Zor-El as referenced by the prequel comic). And I've told you this the past 2 posts. If you re-write it so that he's just another vanilla villain, than he's Zod v.2.0 with no mind. That's boring.

Doomsday as his name implies, is death. He has absolutely nothing to do with the theme of citizens trusting Superman, because the whole point of the comic is that people already trusted Superman to do the right thing. Thus, Doomsday and citizens trusting Superman are two mutually exclusive events.

Perfect example of citizens trusting Superman theme working: Superman/Batman - Public Enemies. Yet, they didn't need Doomsday.

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what, Metallo can do the job too? seriously, you think our own military weaponry can't take down a cyborg??? we don't even need the blue cladded alien for the job. we can solve it ourself, don't u think?
Did you forget MOS? The film established that helicopters and Fighter Jets shot Faora and Nam-Ek, and yet their armor wasn't affected. Not to mention, who's to say that they don't embed Metallo/John Corben with Kryptonian technology (especially if LexCorp is in the middle of it)? That defeats the whole "army can beat Metallo but not Superman?" argument.

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Venow is never the reason why Spidey 3 is poor. in fact, Venow is one of the exciting factors that makes Spidey 3 watchable. Spidey 3 is poor because they ignored on the story between Peter and his best friend (the whole trilogy main idea) and they jamming in a stupid villain called sandman.
Strongly disagree. Venom was shoe-horned in without any build-up to his origins. It took one movie to explain that a symbiote exists and that in a matter of 30 minutes, Peter gets literally mind-controlled by it and decides to lose it just in time for Eddie Brock to get it. Too lazy and convenient. Not to mention, Eddie Brock's motivations are beyond vague and unclear. SM3 suffers from Villain Butthurt syndrome since it portrayed Brock as someone who hates Peter because of one small thing (vastly underdeveloped compared to comics). That is absolutely horrendous writing. Not to mention, lazy too since they didn't take advantage of Spider-Man 2's set up that J. Jonah Jameson has a son who is an astronaut. Instead, we get a meteorite crash. Absolutely lazy.

On top of that, there was not enough time to explain subplots and bloated character list (though I agree, Sandman could've been better written, and why not just Harry Osborn as the final villain? Redemption would've been the best and ultimate theme to explore).

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dislike the idea. as jamming in another 2 villians will definitely take away some precious screen time. and high possible making the story for the main characters (clark, lois, bruce, lex) half baked.

that's why i prefer doomsday so much. you don't have to develop him much. he is here to bang and bang like a super natural disaster. thus, saving the precious time to develop the main characters. you know, like they can take the time to make the audiences love and hate lex at the same time (just like joker / loki)

in short, doomsday, metallo, parasite, bizzaro, mongul... are like foara n nam ek, thehunchmen. you don't wanna spend too much time on them. on the other hand, lex, brainiac, darkside are like general zod, the big bosses where an appropriate of time is required to develop these characters.
You do realize there are many films that had 2 villains and it worked perfectly? The Dark Knight is the best example.

Also, your idea behind Doomsday being in the film because it's easy to work him in without development is exactly why people will dislike it. No build up = what's the point? Therefore, what's the point of shoehorning Doomsday if you want Lex to have the character development? That makes absolutely no sense.

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:43 AM   #124
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

Doomsday needs a secondary villain to work off.

You can't have an interesting Superman film where the only antagonist is a hulking death beast who's can barely speak and who's only motivation is to kill and destroy everything.

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Old 11-18-2013, 02:01 AM   #125
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Default Re: Doomsday, the main villain (physical fight)!!!???

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How is it perfect...? You need to explain that to me. The reason why I don't want Doomsday to be in MOSII/BvS is because there's no build up to Doomsday's origin and how he came to Earth (open pod is Kara Zor-El as referenced by the prequel comic). And I've told you this the past 2 posts. If you re-write it so that he's just another vanilla villain, than he's Zod v.2.0 with no mind. That's boring.

Doomsday as his name implies, is death. He has absolutely nothing to do with the theme of citizens trusting Superman, because the whole point of the comic is that people already trusted Superman to do the right thing. Thus, Doomsday and citizens trusting Superman are two mutually exclusive events.

Perfect example of citizens trusting Superman theme working: Superman/Batman - Public Enemies. Yet, they didn't need Doomsday.



Did you forget MOS? The film established that helicopters and Fighter Jets shot Faora and Nam-Ek, and yet their armor wasn't affected. Not to mention, who's to say that they don't embed Metallo/John Corben with Kryptonian technology (especially if LexCorp is in the middle of it)? That defeats the whole "army can beat Metallo but not Superman?" argument.



Strongly disagree. Venom was shoe-horned in without any build-up to his origins. It took one movie to explain that a symbiote exists and that in a matter of 30 minutes, Peter gets literally mind-controlled by it and decides to lose it just in time for Eddie Brock to get it. Too lazy and convenient. Not to mention, Eddie Brock's motivations are beyond vague and unclear. SM3 suffers from Villain Butthurt syndrome since it portrayed Brock as someone who hates Peter because of one small thing (vastly underdeveloped compared to comics). That is absolutely horrendous writing. Not to mention, lazy too since they didn't take advantage of Spider-Man 2's set up that J. Jonah Jameson has a son who is an astronaut. Instead, we get a meteorite crash. Absolutely lazy.

On top of that, there was not enough time to explain subplots and bloated character list (though I agree, Sandman could've been better written, and why not just Harry Osborn as the final villain? Redemption would've been the best and ultimate theme to explore).



You do realize there are many films that had 2 villains and it worked perfectly? The Dark Knight is the best example.

Also, your idea behind Doomsday being in the film because it's easy to work him in without development is exactly why people will dislike it. No build up = what's the point? Therefore, what's the point of shoehorning Doomsday if you want Lex to have the character development? That makes absolutely no sense.
I’ve explained it in my earlier post. Perfect as my interpretation as follows:-

The first 3/4 of the movie, the story can go around clark, lois, bruce, lex and the people; even though superman trying his best to prove he is a friend, is here to help (some awesome saving deeds a must), but the fear is just too unbearable especially under lex’s manipulation. Bruce too doesn’t trust the alien. While the world + lex + bruce are busy in banishing superman, they don’t see the real threat is coming… ( maybe triggered by lex by accident)

BANG! Doomsday erupts fr nowhere. (the ancient ship is Kara’s but the open pod might not be her/him) None of the human weaponry can stop it. Devastation is everywhere. People run for life and in great danger, while superman is trapped by batman / lex at somewhere.

Doomsday is unstoppable. Hope is lost. Hmmm… simply put, Doomsday is like the world machine in an organic form. But this time, the whole world is able to see how superman fighting his life to take down the world machine (Doomsday) superman defeats doomsday but is badly wounded. Lex comes in to claim superman’s body. The people begins to raise up… one by one to defend him… bruce does too in the end… and he heals clark.

Superman finally earns the trust of the people and the title the greatest superhero… perhaps we’ll see the status of superman elected at the central park at the end of the movie. The sweetest ending.

Is kryptonian armor indestructible on earth??? No sure about that.

Well, the whole story and the execution of SM3 are poor. So it isn’t the fault at the character of Venow. As I said Venow is the cool factor in SM3. I see it as they have no enough time to do it right, when you have another main villain, Sandman to join in the party.

Built up to his origins…
Well, some precious screen time must be allocated to build up the origin of Bruce and Lex like what u said. So you want more precious time to go to the villains like Metallo and Parasite for their story and origin???
is there any left for clark, lois and other supporting characters, like jimmy and perry???
Are we going for Batman 4 / spidey 3???

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