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Old 11-17-2013, 09:31 PM   #26
flickchick85
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

Marvel's villains suck, it's true. I don't even have the love for Loki that most do (I enjoy him as a character, but I don't see him as some great villain at all).

Thankfully, it just so happens that I watch these things for the heroes and not the villains (with the exception of Batman), and I do NOT subscribe to the old mantra that "a hero is only as good as his villain," so this is a flaw that doesn't really bother me. Most of my favorite CBM's had unremarkable villains, but great journeys for their heroes, and I still think they're great movies in general, so whatever.

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Old 11-17-2013, 09:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

... and nothing is ever, ever, rated R.

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Old 11-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

You do realize something can be dark without being rated R? There's very little artistically that you can't do in a PG-13 movie, outside of schlocking up a film with cursing, excessive violence and nudity. If your movie requires any of those to be good, it's probably weak anyway.

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2015: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Ant-Man
2016: Captain America 3, Doctor Strange
2017: Thor 3, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Inhumans
2018: Avengers 3, Black Panther, Incredible Hulk 2
2019: Iron Man 4, Doctor Strange 2, Ms. Marvel
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
Iron Man 3 was the most underwhelming sequel/follow up I've ever seen in my life. Iron Man 3 is The Phantom Menace of the MCU. The guy faced off against gods and aliens in the last movie only to be followed up by a butthurt ex-fanboy. You'd think after 2 corporate non-threatening villains and after finally proving his worth as a real superhero when the time finally came you'd think he'd be facing bigger stuff like the real Mandarin.

The most entertaining aspect of a superhero film is the overcoming of obstacles like defeating the bad guy. Even if they decided to go with that silly twist, the least they could have done was develop Aldrich Killian's character into a legitimate villain who gets finished off by the titular character. Shane Black committed a cardinal sin here with what he did here and what he planned to do and I hope to god he never touches a comic book movie.
That's the genius in Black's creative decisions. He progressed Tony into a vulnerable human being deathly afraid of cosmic beings, yet the greatest threat to him came from a mere man. I didn't like the corporate aspect of the Mandarin at first, though his manipulation of the US makes up for it slightly.

What makes Black's decision a "cardinal sin?"

@Kang: Some of the stuff you mention can be used to great effect in getting an audience to hate the villain. I don't expect to see lucid, starved peasants sitting at a cannibal's feast in any Marvel film, granted. Or prisoners taken by, say, Loki or Thanos hanging themselves to escape the brutality of their captors.

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Old 11-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

Frankly, if Marvel wants to revisit Blade, Punisher, even GR and DD to an extent, they need to think strongly about an R-rating. Thankfully, all of those Marvel Knight projects are on the back burner and the material they've been tackling isn't suited for an R-rating.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #31
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Default Re: 17 Signs it's a Marvel Studios Movie

So, I'm a sucker for information presented in list form and the MCU so, yes, of course I clicked through to the link. Generally I isn't a "you know you're blanking a blank!" type of list to be more... friendly ribbing? Fun and familiar for fans but with a few pointed truths thrown in there. This kind of read more like a list of "16 problem that in every Marvel Studio film (and the one thing about women - even though minority representation in one of the areas Mina really does have an actual issue with)".

My poor friend had to listen to me read and then rebuke just about every point on the list (hey - my dad raised me to debate EVERYTHING because how else do you learn, never mind keep interesting dinner conversation?) I'm not going to do that here, obviously, because... well, to be honest it would come off as a pathetic and over clingy fangirl thing online, wouldn't it? It came off that way offline, too, but my friend was in the process off drawing fanart to take to the Doctor Who 50th anniversary so she wasn't allowed to judge. Still, there is one point on that list that I just cannot NOT comment on.

"[R]emoving the secret identities makes the heroes less emotionally complex" -- what? I... No. Character depth just doesn't work like that.

You know what, this article has some valid points that I could have argued because, from my personal perspective, they aren't really problems. This is not one of them. This issue is all on your head, article writer. I honestly don't see how you could try and seriously argue with someone that a that building a full, complex character in any way relate to the exposure of their nose. Look, Shakespeare has a lot of people running around pretending to be other people. He's also got a lot of emotionally and morally complex characters. Note that these two elements typically occur in different plays.

The only reason this was even listed is that for generations superheroes have had secret identities. It's like to British agents having sex with questionably allied foreign women: it's audience expectation based not on logic or solid writing but on what came before. Which isn't to say that a secret identity can't add anything to the narration. I would say that "the mask" adds a lot to characters like Peter Parker, but not just by way of him possessing of one. The secret identity has to exist for a reason. Peter has a good reason for it, and he's a more compelling character for it. Tony? Not so much.

If anything, MCU Tony Stark hiding Iron Man behind a false bodyguard persona would not only be against type, it would remove some of the complexity behind the character. Partly, it simply fits his personality as a man whose whole life is documented by the press and who has a very theatrical public image that he seems to enjoy (unlike, say, Bruce Wayne who lives that lifestyle only as cover). Then there is the fact that all those who value their secret identity so much do so for a reason: regardless of if they wear a mask or not, being a superheroes is already a very public act. It's the fallout that everyone is trying so hard to enjoy, while Tony soaks it up. That's where a lot of Stark's characterization comes from: the fact that he is very much not a "superhero workaholic" (his private life should in no way be considered heroic) and yet the world now expects him to be a superhero 24/7. That creates conflict which builds character!

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