The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2013, 01:59 AM   #1
\S/JcDc\S/
Panned User
 
\S/JcDc\S/'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,314
Default How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot holes?

This has been a plot device used in some comics, movies, and tv series. If there are some things that will be tough to reconcile logically, should a Jor-el mind wipe be accessible?

__________________
JcDc-- My original join date was: 05-07-2003 --Time flies, and so should Superman!
\S/JcDc\S/ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 02:00 AM   #2
DA_Champion
Side-Kick
 
DA_Champion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 4,991
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Every time they have a logical challenge that prevents progress in the story they should bring out Jor-El to fix it. It worked very well in Superman II, in Smallville, and in MoS.

DA_Champion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 02:05 AM   #3
matt47
Side-Kick
 
matt47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,199
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

When did it work in man of steel?

matt47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 02:21 AM   #4
DA_Champion
Side-Kick
 
DA_Champion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 4,991
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt47 View Post
When did it work in man of steel?
I really loved the part where Clark had no direction in his life until he was 33, and then when he meets Jor-El he acquires direction and we see him smile for the first time and learn to fly. He runs home to Martha, pleased that he met his real parents.

I also liked the part where Clark was stuck on the Kryptonian ship and did not know what to do. He was strapped down, and would have died and the Earth would have been destroyed. Then, Jor-El tells Lois what to do, and Jor-El changes the atmosphere in the ship so that Clark can escape.

But my favourite part of the movie is toward the end. The Kryptonians have been defined as a force that Clark cannot defeat using brute strength only. They are changing the Earth's gravity and chemistry. They are blasting Metropolis and destroying F-18 fighter planes. They cannot be stopped. They cannot be defeated. Except by Jor-El's technology. Jor-El says if you drop Superman's baby crib onto the Kryptonian ship it will create a perfectly calibrated black hole: one with enough gravity to suck in the kryptonians, but not so much gravity that it destroys the Earth.

The franchise needs more Jor-El -- he kicks so much ass. I'd like to see him go to Oa and defeat Sinestro.


Last edited by DA_Champion; 11-22-2013 at 03:01 AM.
DA_Champion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 04:03 AM   #5
matt47
Side-Kick
 
matt47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,199
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Ah well yes. I meant has he been used to fix plot holes?

matt47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 05:16 AM   #6
DA_Champion
Side-Kick
 
DA_Champion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 4,991
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt47 View Post
Ah well yes. I meant has he been used to fix plot holes?
I just gave you three examples where Jor-El was inserted as a chain between two plot situations that would otherwise be hard to reconcile.

DA_Champion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 05:33 AM   #7
KRYPTON INC.
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 11,118
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.

__________________
My father. 1946-2014

He truly proved that every person has the potential to be a force for good in this life. So anyone that reads this, do me a favor... Call your parents.
KRYPTON INC. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 05:44 AM   #8
AnneFan
Hathaway #1
 
AnneFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,532
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

I hope they find a way to bring Jor-El's consciousness back. Crowe was seriously good in MOS.

__________________
I dreamed a dream and "it came true."
- Anne Hathaway, actress in a supporting role winner 2013 Oscars.

Rio 2 - Song One - Interstellar - The Intern - The Lifeboat - Get Happy
AnneFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 05:47 AM   #9
The Boy Scout
Side-Kick
 
The Boy Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,749
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

No thanks.

The Boy Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 05:50 AM   #10
Fallen Angel
Earth Bound
 
Fallen Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,090
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneFan View Post
I hope they find a way to bring Jor-El's consciousness back. Crowe was seriously good in MOS.

Me too he was pretty good. I did like the krypton scenes and with him and Lois.

Fallen Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 06:00 AM   #11
nouan
Banned User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 515
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.
Lol!

nouan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #12
Nemeres
Easy, miss. I've got you.
 
Nemeres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Quito, Ecuador
Posts: 1,445
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

I liked Crowe and his Jor-El, but that thing they did of having him practically be an actual person even after he was dead... was lame. It was (to me) an obvious attempt of milking their super movie star's screen time for all its worth. It's like in Harry Potter: where's the tragedy of someone being dead if you can have them live on as a moving painting, personality and all? He should have been a computer program of sorts, distant and unreachable, like in the Donner film. So no, don't bring him back. Let dead be dead, for chrissakes.

__________________
Tuuuuu-turu-tu-tuuuuuuuuuuu

TUUUU-TUUUU-TUUUUUUUUUUU...
Nemeres is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #13
Rowsdower!
Hmmmmm.
 
Rowsdower!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Delta City
Posts: 15,054
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Yeah, they did milk that a bit too much. I think having him talk to Clark and then help Lois get off Zod's ship was enough. They didn't need another Jor-El/Zod scene.

Also, I caught a blooper the last time I watched it. When Jor-El's holgram is walking around, you can hear his footsteps.

__________________
Once again, folks. The DC Cinematic Universe is not about Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman or any of that. It's about HAIR. Here's the lineup to be announced at Comic Con.

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Hair (2016)
Hair League for Men (2017)
Wonder Woman's Styling Tips (2018)
Hair of Steel 2 (2018)

The Dark Knight Glazes (2019)
Rowsdower! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 10:00 AM   #14
afan
Side-Kick
 
afan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norwood,Ma.
Posts: 3,579
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.



Seriously.......well as serious as any in depth super-hero discussion can get......I don't care for any iteration that allows Jor-el to play an "active" role in Superman's career. I also dis-like the....."it is your destiny"......"Earth needs only your guidance..." Jor-el-isms.

__________________
"No comment, until the time limit is up."
afan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #15
charl_huntress
The Offender w/ Magic
 
charl_huntress's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outside the doors of Arkham Ayslum
Posts: 10,644
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by \S/JcDc\S/ View Post
This has been a plot device used in some comics, movies, and tv series. If there are some things that will be tough to reconcile logically, should a Jor-el mind wipe be accessible?
Absolutely Not!!!!!!!!!!! Under no circumstances!

__________________
Mission Accomplished!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
charl_huntress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #16
LEVITIKUZ
HE'S COMING HOME!!!
 
LEVITIKUZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,343
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

So Jor-El is going to be to the Man of Steel series what Old Spock is to the newer Star Trek series?

LEVITIKUZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #17
Rowsdower!
Hmmmmm.
 
Rowsdower!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Delta City
Posts: 15,054
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Not unless Jor-El starts telling Superman how Christopher Reeve defeated enemies in his movies.

__________________
Once again, folks. The DC Cinematic Universe is not about Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman or any of that. It's about HAIR. Here's the lineup to be announced at Comic Con.

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Hair (2016)
Hair League for Men (2017)
Wonder Woman's Styling Tips (2018)
Hair of Steel 2 (2018)

The Dark Knight Glazes (2019)
Rowsdower! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #18
Fallen Angel
Earth Bound
 
Fallen Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,090
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

I don't think Russell Crowe will be coming back. A shame I liked his Jor El.

Fallen Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #19
LEVITIKUZ
HE'S COMING HOME!!!
 
LEVITIKUZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,343
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
Not unless Jor-El starts telling Superman how Christopher Reeve defeated enemies in his movies.

LEVITIKUZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:19 AM   #20
ЯɘvlveR
doilooklikeiknowwhatajpeg
 
ЯɘvlveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,247
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
I don't think Russell Crowe will be coming back. A shame I liked his Jor El.
he's actually said he'd like to come back in a krypton prequel.

ЯɘvlveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 11:40 AM   #21
The Guard
Side-Kick
 
The Guard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 25,769
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

I don't really understand people's issue with Jor-El being the cerebral half of the saving force in this movie, with a newly minted Superman being the muscle.

It's little different than Batman taking advice from Alfred or relying on Lucious Fox's technical expertise.

__________________
Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL

And if I'm right
The future's looking bright
A symbol in the skies at night
The Guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 02:09 PM   #22
Rowsdower!
Hmmmmm.
 
Rowsdower!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Delta City
Posts: 15,054
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Yeah, Superman is young, discovering who he is and what he needs to do. He's just being introduced to multiple shocking revelations and Jor-El is there to guide him. He's Morpheus to Superman's Neo (ironic because Morpheus is in the movie as another character!).

I don't know that Jor-El needs to be in a sequel though. I would gather that he can't since the key was destroyed.

__________________
Once again, folks. The DC Cinematic Universe is not about Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman or any of that. It's about HAIR. Here's the lineup to be announced at Comic Con.

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Hair (2016)
Hair League for Men (2017)
Wonder Woman's Styling Tips (2018)
Hair of Steel 2 (2018)

The Dark Knight Glazes (2019)
Rowsdower! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 02:13 PM   #23
charl_huntress
The Offender w/ Magic
 
charl_huntress's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outside the doors of Arkham Ayslum
Posts: 10,644
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
I don't really understand people's issue with Jor-El being the cerebral half of the saving force in this movie, with a newly minted Superman being the muscle.

It's little different than Batman taking advice from Alfred or relying on Lucious Fox's technical expertise.
I have no problem with the role Jor-El plays and I think it's needed in the movies. I hope we see a return of Crowe too. I thought he was a very good Jor. However, I'm absolutely opposed to any mind-wipes. Never again I say...NEVER AGAIN!

__________________
Mission Accomplished!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
charl_huntress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 09:10 AM   #24
GreenKToo
In the fire
 
GreenKToo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In the fire.
Posts: 11,104
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

I have a feeling that instead of crowe we may see costner return if they do a death of type story down the road.

__________________
''Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.'' ~ John Wayne


GreenKToo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 09:19 AM   #25
jonathancrane
I love Marvel, DC & EC!
 
jonathancrane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Caverns in Arkham Island
Posts: 6,762
Default Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho

He should be used with discipline. Relying on him to provide exposition for every film is pure laziness.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aaron
"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Johns
ďAt DC, we really see film and TV as separate worlds."
jonathancrane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.