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Old 11-15-2013, 04:58 PM   #126
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

And those are all things I would call nit picking a movie that you didn't like and not anything close to significant contradictions.

Stryker was a recast, adamantium on adamantium is going to leave an impact mark, Logan lost his claws before the Weapon X procedure in the fight with Creed, and Stryker's line was more a figure of speech anyways, and a man that ran off and spent all his time fighting in virtually every war in history seems rather violent to me.

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Old 11-15-2013, 05:24 PM   #127
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

When there's enough of small things that can be considered nitpicking, it casts one big shadow.

Not taking sides here, though. Please carry on, sirs.

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Old 11-15-2013, 05:33 PM   #128
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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And those are all things I would call nit picking a movie that you didn't like and not anything close to significant contradictions.

Stryker was a recast, adamantium on adamantium is going to leave an impact mark, Logan lost his claws before the Weapon X procedure in the fight with Creed, and Stryker's line was more a figure of speech anyways, and a man that ran off and spent all his time fighting in virtually every war in history seems rather violent to me.
They were all things that could've been differently had the movie been prepped differently to actually be a decent film. But the writing and direction, as well as some performances, were awful. You call it "not-picking" because you like the film. I respect your opinion. But it was truly horrendous, and I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I thought I liked it when it leaked. The best part was Wade Wilson... a whopping five minutes of the film.

EDIT: Also, a recast? Obviously. But slap on some facial hair and some glasses and he would've been close to spot-on.


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Old 11-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #129
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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First off, I'm glad you can recognize when others are being subjective.

This film was based off of X1 and X2's flashbacks and details given by Stryker. Not only did Stryker look nothing like his same-time counterpart in X2, Sabretooth was absolutely nothing like his X1 counterpart in appearance or character. Adamantium, as we knew from pervious films and said directly by Stryker himself is indestructible when cooled and solidified, and was proven when Wolverine fought Deathstryke. That was thrown out the window with the adamantium bullet. In X2, Stryker said he gave Logan claws, suggesting he had no bone claws, but he did in this movie. He also told Logan that he was an animal before the procedure, when in Origins, he was really quite the softie. Cyclops' abilities were improperly displayed - in X1, we saw that the optic beams hit the ruby quartz directly and constantly, but in this film, he wore a pair of assumed ruby quartz shades that were open on the sides and transparent, clearly showing there was no constant flow of optic blasts. Plus, they displayed it as a fire/heat-inducing laser (both when he was attacked by Victor and when his ability was used by Deadpool,) when that has never - even in the comics - been what his optic beams are. And since when was Stryker's base a very large waterfall's height above sea level when it was very specifically below ground in X2?

Those are just some of the things I've recalled off the top of my head.
And in X2, Logan escaped Weapon X covered in blood and screaming in pain...in Origins, there was no screaming bloody escape through a corridor, even his hair had dried off in 30 seconds. In X2, he ran out the door, in Origins, he cut an "X" in the wall (because how else would we know it was an X-Men movie otherwise, I guess?) and jumped out over a waterfall.

In X2, Stryker wanted him about the "kind of person" he was and about the kind of work they'd done together. Magneto and Xavier had an ominous conversation about keeping Logan's past from him. In Origins, Wolverine stood around and disapproved while other characters did bad things. The entire Weapon X experiment was based on the idea that they thought they could isolate Logan's berserker rage and turn it into something they could harness and control, but you never saw the berserker rage in the movie. Definitely not the way X2 or X1 played it out.

That's not a "nitpick", it was a glaringly obvious difference from one movie to the other, and frustrating because X2 had gotten that sequence so right.

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Old 11-15-2013, 06:39 PM   #130
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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And in X2, Logan escaped Weapon X covered in blood and screaming in pain...in Origins, there was screaming bloody escape through a corridor, even his hair had dried off in 30 seconds. In X2, he ran out the door, in Origins, he cut an "X" in the wall (because how else would we know it was an X-Men movie otherwise, I guess?) and jumped out over a waterfall.

In X2, Stryker wanted him about the "kind of person" he was and about the kind of work they'd done together. Magneto and Xavier had an ominous conversation about keeping Logan's past from him. In Origins, Wolverine stood around and disapproved while other characters did bad things. The entire Weapon X experiment was based on the idea that they thought they could isolate Logan's berserker rage and turn it into something they could harness and control, but you never saw the berserker rage in the movie. Definitely not the way X2 or X1 played it out.

That's not a "nitpick", it was a glaringly obvious difference from one movie to the other, and frustrating because X2 had gotten that sequence so right.
Exactly.

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #131
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

Whether you liked X-Men Origins: Wolverine or not, I don't see how you can argue that it was consistent with the lore as established by the first three X-Men movies. First Class had a few inconsistencies but Origins was like a completely different universe.

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:44 PM   #132
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the scenes in X2 weren't necessarily flashbacks pre-se...they were more of a dream sequence...

it wasn't meant to be an exact representation of what real happened, its Logan's twisted nightmare version of it...

with is memory loss (especially, if you go by the bullet to the brain version of how he lost it) what we saw was his damaged mind trying to make since of what few fragments/or flashes of memories, here or there, he had left

I saw it more as him filling in the gaps in his memory with metaphorical and symbolic imagery
(for example: in X2 him being covered in blood, could have been metaphorical of the pain an agony he remembers feeling) other things like the masked man was him filling in the memory of knowing that there was someone there but not remember his face

or at least that one way to look at it, to get around, that they took some creative license with XO:W (not saying it was what they had it mind when they originally made X2, just saying)

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:56 PM   #133
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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And in X2, Logan escaped Weapon X covered in blood and screaming in pain...in Origins, there was no screaming bloody escape through a corridor, even his hair had dried off in 30 seconds. In X2, he ran out the door, in Origins, he cut an "X" in the wall (because how else would we know it was an X-Men movie otherwise, I guess?) and jumped out over a waterfall.

In X2, Stryker wanted him about the "kind of person" he was and about the kind of work they'd done together. Magneto and Xavier had an ominous conversation about keeping Logan's past from him. In Origins, Wolverine stood around and disapproved while other characters did bad things. The entire Weapon X experiment was based on the idea that they thought they could isolate Logan's berserker rage and turn it into something they could harness and control, but you never saw the berserker rage in the movie. Definitely not the way X2 or X1 played it out.

That's not a "nitpick", it was a glaringly obvious difference from one movie to the other, and frustrating because X2 had gotten that sequence so right.
Your both said what I have thought on subject.

Origins completly changed everything about akali lake,weapon X exprement,
and Wolverine's past that we saw In X2.

I feel origins had more condictions than First Class.And first Class gets more heat than Origins does for condictions.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:48 PM   #134
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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the scenes in X2 weren't necessarily flashbacks pre-se...they were more of a dream sequence...

it wasn't meant to be an exact representation of what real happened, its Logan's twisted nightmare version of it...

with is memory loss (especially, if you go by the bullet to the brain version of how he lost it) what we saw was his damaged mind trying to make since of what few fragments/or flashes of memories, here or there, he had left

I saw it more as him filling in the gaps in his memory with metaphorical and symbolic imagery
(for example: in X2 him being covered in blood, could have been metaphorical of the pain an agony he remembers feeling) other things like the masked man was him filling in the memory of knowing that there was someone there but not remember his face
I don't know. That sounds like excuses to hide Origins screw ups and the fact that the movie felt watered down compared to the others. The Blob fight says it all. That and how Wolverine was written, he never had his angry pissed off attitude throughout most of the movie.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:54 PM   #135
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Exactly.
Also, CYCLOPS DOES NOT HAVE HEAT VISION!! I cannot believe that Origins got that wrong, especially since the OT got it right, even TLS. Did the people who made Origins not watch the OT, or did they just not care.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:05 PM   #136
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

I have a question that I wonder if anyone can answer: Wolverine's mind is being sent back in time in his younger body to convince young Xavier of something. Why can't they just send Xavier's mind back in time?

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:06 PM   #137
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

It's been said only wolverine can survive the mind swap because of his mutant healing

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:06 PM   #138
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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I don't know. That sounds like excuses to hide Origins screw ups and the fact that the movie felt watered down compared to the others. The Blob fight says it all. That and how Wolverine was written, he never had his angry pissed off attitude throughout most of the movie.
Take what you think is bad writing and a bad movie out of the equation, and just look at how the movie stacks up by remaining consistent with the material that came before it.

I don't see how anyone can say it's an inconsistent movie without going into extreme nitpicking of mundane details that's probably fueled by their avid disdain for the movie.

It's actually rather accurate with what X2 established. Just because it's not what you -thought- or -wanted- it to be doesn't mean it was inconsistent or contradictory.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #139
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Take what you think is bad writing and a bad movie out of the equation, and just look at how the movie stacks up by remaining consistent with the material that came before it.

I don't see how anyone can say it's an inconsistent movie without going into extreme nitpicking of mundane details that's probably fueled by their avid disdain for the movie.

It's actually rather accurate with what X2 established. Just because it's not what you -thought- or -wanted- it to be doesn't mean it was inconsistent or contradictory.
Danoyse and Bamfer actually pointed out a good number of things that makes Origins fairly inaccurate to what was in X2, and I'm not talking about lack of blood on Wolverine when he escapes like in the flashback in X2. That can be considered a nitpick.

Go read their posts, or reread them if you already read them earlier.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #140
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Take what you think is bad writing and a bad movie out of the equation, and just look at how the movie stacks up by remaining consistent with the material that came before it.

I don't see how anyone can say it's an inconsistent movie without going into extreme nitpicking of mundane details that's probably fueled by their avid disdain for the movie.

It's actually rather accurate with what X2 established. Just because it's not what you -thought- or -wanted- it to be doesn't mean it was inconsistent or contradictory.
It's not extreme nit-picking. It's painfully obvious that seconds of flashbacks got that story right more than an entire movie dedicated to it did.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:21 PM   #141
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Danoyse and Bamfer actually pointed out a good number of things that makes Origins fairly inaccurate to what was in X2, and I'm not talking about lack of blood on Wolverine when he escapes like in the flashback in X2. That can be considered a nitpick.

Go read their posts, or reread them if you already read them earlier.
I did read them.

I already addressed why I disagreed with them and consider them nitpicks.

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Stryker was a recast, adamantium on adamantium is going to leave an impact mark, Logan lost his claws before the Weapon X procedure in the fight with Creed, and Stryker's line was more a figure of speech anyways, and a man that ran off and spent all his time fighting in virtually every war in history seems rather violent to me.
Brian Cox to Danny Huston is a recast. That's not an inconsistency.

Logan's adamantium skull was shot with an adamantium bullet. Of course there is going to be an impact mark. That is not an inconsistency. It's physics.

Logan lost his claws in the fight with Victor. So Stryker's line in X2 is not an inconsistency. Even if Logan didn't lose his claws, it's not inconsistent because it was a figure of speech.

Logan fought in virtually every major war in North American history following his birth. That's a pretty violent life.

None of that is inconsistent with X2.

Literally the only inconsistency is the fact that the film doesn't match up perfectly with the dreams in X-Men and X2. But the dreams don't even match up perfectly with themselves in X-Men and X2 either.

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It's not extreme nit-picking. It's painfully obvious that seconds of flashbacks got that story right more than an entire movie dedicated to it did.
That's subjective. I think the movie did a fine job of getting the story right.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:25 PM   #142
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

It's also worth pointing out that Wolverine was shot in the head with an adamantium bullet...but when we saw x-rays of his adamantium skull in X1, there was no bullet hole.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:35 PM   #143
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Logan lost his claws in the fight with Victor. So Stryker's line in X2 is not an inconsistency. Even if Logan didn't lose his claws, it's not inconsistent because it was a figure of speech.
Except that in The Wolverine, we saw that his claws grow back when they're chopped off.

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Logan fought in virtually every major war in North American history following his birth. That's a pretty violent life.
And there's a big difference between being a soldier fighting on a battlefield and someone with an uncontrollable rage problem who loses it away from the battlefield to the point where he can't recognize friends from enemies and constantly puts them in danger.

Again, that was the point of Weapon X. They thought they could destroy the person he was and control the violent part of him, and for a little while they did. His whole struggle after escaping was trying to recover and control the better part of himself. That's what Xavier was helping him with, that's why others thought he was too dangerous to be one of the X-Men.

The first two movies played that very well. The Wolverine did it when he woke up from a nightmare with the claws out and didn't recognize Mariko for a few seconds.

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That's subjective. I think the movie did a fine job of getting the story right.
OK.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #144
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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It's also worth pointing out that Wolverine was shot in the head with an adamantium bullet...but when we saw x-rays of his adamantium skull in X1, there was no bullet hole.
That's what I'd call a nitpick. How exactly did that contradict the narrative?

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Except that in The Wolverine, we saw that his claws grow back when they're chopped off.
Then that's The Wolverine being inconsistent, not X-Men Origins: Wolverine, which came out 4 years earlier...

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And there's a big difference between being a soldier fighting on a battlefield and someone with an uncontrollable rage problem who loses it away from the battlefield to the point where he can't recognize friends from enemies and constantly puts them in danger.

Again, that was the point of Weapon X. They thought they could destroy the person he was and control the violent part of him, and for a little while they did. His whole struggle after escaping was trying to recover and control the better part of himself. That's what Xavier was helping him with, that's why others thought he was too dangerous to be one of the X-Men.

The first two movies played that very well. The Wolverine did it when he woke up from a nightmare with the claws out and didn't recognize Mariko for a few seconds.
That's a subjective opinion of the storytelling. Not a contradiction with X2.

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OK.
Okay.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #145
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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That's what I'd call a nitpick. How exactly did that contradict the narrative?
Because there should be a bullet hole in his adamantium skull, since that's how he supposedly lost his memory?

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Then that's The Wolverine being inconsistent, not X-Men Origins: Wolverine, which came out 4 years earlier...
That's right, I forgot...Origins is an innocent, blameless creature...

Or it could be a case of The Wolverine just doing all of this better than Origins did.

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That's a subjective opinion of the storytelling. Not a contradiction with X2.
Or the consensus from nearly everyone who saw it...

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #146
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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Because there should be a bullet hole in his adamantium skull, since that's how he supposedly lost his memory?
And Obi Won tells Luke he's never seen R2D2 before in "A New Hope"... I guess the prequel trilogy just totally didn't take the original trilogy into consideration?

It's a nitpick. Plain and simple. It's in the end no more of an issue than Logan's filled up / empty / filled up again Dr. Pepper bottle in X2.

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That's right, I forgot...Origins is an innocent, blameless creature...

Or it could be a case of The Wolverine just doing all of this better than Origins did.
Oh, I forgot... X-Men Origins: Wolverine did absolutely nothing right and not a single good word should ever be spoken about it...



Yes, The Wolverine IS better than X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That doesn't make the first one inconsistent.

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Or the consensus from nearly everyone who saw it...
And a subjective consensus at that.

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Old 11-15-2013, 10:16 PM   #147
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

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And Obi Won tells Luke he's never seen R2D2 before in "A New Hope"... I guess the prequel trilogy just totally didn't take the original trilogy into consideration?
Except that Obi-Wan never said that. The line was, "I don't recall ever owning a droid. Very interesting."

He never owned R2-D2, so he was telling the truth. They'd met before, and knowing what we know, the "very interesting" likely indicated that he recognized him, but since he also told Luke that Darth Vader killed his father, Ben was keeping a lot to himself that particular day.

However, in Return of the Jedi, Princess Leia tells Luke memories she has of their mother...although in the prequels, Padme dies in childbirth.

There are fans who suggest it was some cosmic Force-memory she had...but as much as I love Star Wars, I think that theory is stupid, disregards what was established in the original trilogy, and that those prequels had a LOT OF PROBLEMS.

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It's a nitpick. Plain and simple. It's in the end no more of an issue than Logan's filled up / empty / filled up again Dr. Pepper bottle in X2.
Not really.

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Oh, I forgot... X-Men Origins: Wolverine did absolutely nothing right and not a single good word should ever be spoken about it...

No, but it had some obvious problems. You'd rather make an issue over fans having gripes about it rather than discussing those problems. If you didn't think so, that's fine...but you're not going to change anyone's mind on this.

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Yes, The Wolverine IS better than X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That doesn't make the first one inconsistent.
But it will be a much shorter conversation, since it's so much better.

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Old 11-15-2013, 10:41 PM   #148
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

Considering the fact Hugh Jackman see's the next Wolverine sequel as Wolverine 2, then that means he doesn't consider Origins as part of canon.

And in fairness, Nell, what people have said isn't nitpicking. There were gaping continuity errors. The producers and writers of Origins didn't even try to stick to the continuity established by OT. They deliberately disregarded it, thereby basically excluding it from the rest of the franchise. FC had some issues but they are apparently getting partly or mostly fixed with DOFP. They can't fix the issues with Origins because they're too glaring. So like Universal Soldier 2 (and the two TV movies) it will probably be considered a non-canon spin-off. They've already disregarded parts of it in FC, TW and probably will again in DOFP. It's starting to look like Hugh isn't the only official person who doesn't see it as part of the franchise.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hugh is getting his attitude towards it from Singer & co. I expect it to be mostly or completely ignored from now on tbh. So they can use the characters from it again in other movies. And they can plug the franchise errors as best they can.

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Old 11-15-2013, 11:16 PM   #149
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

I would still like them to bring Liev Schreiber and Ryan Reynolds back for future films, they were really good. Perhaps in the X-Force movie?

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Old 11-15-2013, 11:22 PM   #150
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - - - - - Part 16

I hate Origins as much as the next fan but it does feel like nitpicking when even FC have the same contradictions with the trilogy.

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