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Old 11-14-2013, 10:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
As much as I prefer the FF over Superman, I wouldn't put them in the same 'brand recognition' or popularity level as the big S. Even the dull as dishwater 'Superman Returns' did better than both FF films.

Superman is a undoubtedly a worldwide icon. The FF? Less so...

For this one to do well they will have to do a damn good job with it. Anything average I can't see doing any better than the previous efforts, especially in that slot.
Add to that, its also going head to head with some pretty stiff competition

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Old 11-15-2013, 02:02 AM   #27
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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As much as I prefer the FF over Superman, I wouldn't put them in the same 'brand recognition' or popularity level as the big S. Even the dull as dishwater 'Superman Returns' did better than both FF films.

Superman is a undoubtedly a worldwide icon. The FF? Less so...

For this one to do well they will have to do a damn good job with it. Anything average I can't see doing any better than the previous efforts, especially in that slot.
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Add to that, its also going head to head with some pretty stiff competition
I agree with both statement, and you can add that the previous movies weren't good, that the franchise was never done properly on film (yes, I look at you, the Roger Corman movie), the fact that nobody doesn't seem to care of the project, and the fact that the studio seems to do everything wrong.

To be honest, FF isn't a property that is that difficult to adapt. Is it that difficult to cast two middle age men ( a scientist and leader and a tough guy ), a blonde girl in her early 30's and a teen / Young adult blond guy who know how to act ? Is it difficult to present them as a kind of dysfonctional family ? Is it difficult to give them powers and allow them to discover and explore some exotic, mysterious and dangerous worlds ?

They are no Punisher, they are PG 13. They have some recognition (more than Iron Man had when he began his successful franchise) and the best and probably one of the most complex villain in the Marvel Universe (Doom), not adding that the silver Surfer and Galactus are great characters too.

They aren't difficult at all to do right. Yet Fox isn't able to do it right. Ok, Namor and the rest of them MCU not being used is a serious problem for a franchise that has always been the core of the Marvel universe. But, well, is it that impossible to do it right ?

The fact that they cast a black actor (to make a publicity, because I guess that it's one of the two purpose of the casting, the other one being that casting a Trank friend may have help Trank agree to save what it was possible, because I don't think that he is that enthousiast in doing FF) and the fact that Josh Trank seems to be less enthousiast than the Fox exec in doing the project tells a lot.

Fox is on the right way with the X men franchise, because they let Singer and co do their job. But It doesn't seem it's the case with FF. I feel the good old studio meddling at his best.

I can't see FF being any good, and even less being successful.

No, I fear the next Elektra or Wolverine : Origin. In fact, Fox is adapting the punisher. I can see the Fox exécutives as Franck Castle and the comic book fan and cinéphiles as mobs. "This movie is not a revenge (for bad mouthing us), this movie is a punishment !"

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

Per front page http://www.superherohype.com/news/ar...in-baton-rouge

the majority who wants film to fail or get cancled won't be happy they are scouting locations for a march 2014 production start.

The minority who remain open minded and postive about film till they see
at least till it's made and they see a teaser will enjoy this news.

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post
Per front page http://www.superherohype.com/news/ar...in-baton-rouge

the majority who wants film to fail or get cancled won't be happy they are scouting locations for a march 2014 production start.

The minority who remain open minded and postive about film till they see
at least till it's made and they see a teaser will enjoy this news.
Though I've long been a fan of the work of Reddit user 'Xzsekots', I'll wait for a more formal announcement before I get my dander up. And though message board posters make up a very small percentage of the movie going audience, shouldn't our good friends at FOX be concerned that the majority of FF fans who aren't shameless fanboys of their studio want this film to fail or get cancelled?

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Originally Posted by marvelrobbins View Post
Per front page http://www.superherohype.com/news/ar...in-baton-rouge

the majority who wants film to fail or get cancled won't be happy they are scouting locations for a march 2014 production start.

The minority who remain open minded and postive about film till they see
at least till it's made and they see a teaser will enjoy this news.
Have we not heard this all before? Is this any more substantial than the previous announcements for a June shoot this year or the September one?

Probably best to wait until there's an official announcement before geting hopes up or dashed, depending on which side of the fence one is on.

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:55 AM   #31
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Though I've long been a fan of the work of Reddit user 'Xzsekots', I'll wait for a more formal announcement before I get my dander up. And though message board posters make up a very small percentage of the movie going audience, shouldn't our good friends at FOX be concerned that the majority of FF fans who aren't shameless fanboys of their studio want this film to fail or get cancelled?
If Fox consider the comic fan base the same as one universal executive revealed years back (they estimated we amount to less than 10% of their desired audience) I doubt they care much what we think, even less as to what we want.

End of the day it's something to want to make money from. If the comic fans like what they are doing that's a bonus (our support can help fan the hype and so on) but otherwise I don't think we factor much into what they decide to go with one way or another.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Originally Posted by Zarex View Post
Though I've long been a fan of the work of Reddit user 'Xzsekots', I'll wait for a more formal announcement before I get my dander up. And though message board posters make up a very small percentage of the movie going audience, shouldn't our good friends at FOX be concerned that the majority of FF fans who aren't shameless fanboys of their studio want this film to fail or get cancelled?
As oppossed to those hope film fails due to being fanboys of Disney/MS

And calling anyone at Fox your friends when you just attack everything they
do

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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As oppossed to those hope film fails due to being fanboys of Disney/MS
I've posted a poll that directly addresses this, so lets see what people actually think. I suspect the number of people who really want it to fail is small, but we'll see.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:21 AM   #34
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
If Fox consider the comic fan base the same as one universal executive revealed years back (they estimated we amount to less than 10% of their desired audience) I doubt they care much what we think, even less as to what we want.

End of the day it's something to want to make money from. If the comic fans like what they are doing that's a bonus (our support can help fan the hype and so on) but otherwise I don't think we factor much into what they decide to go with one way or another.
10% is a very significant amount of the box office take. I figured it would be much lower. If the comic fan base is that high than our collective influence is greater than I thought.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:47 AM   #35
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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10% is a very significant amount of the box office take. I figured it would be much lower. If the comic fan base is that high than our collective influence is greater than I thought.
Well, If we go by fans alone our % made up $150 million of the Avengers $1.5 billion.

Or for say Man of Steel, $66 mil of that ones $660mil, of for FF1, we made up $33 of that ones $330 million gross.

And the guy (iirc) said less than 10% (as I recall they said it in response to fans complaining about some of what had been seen from Ang Lee's Hulk prior to it's release).

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #36
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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The fact that they cast a black actor (to make a publicity, because I guess that it's one of the two purpose of the casting, the other one being that casting a Trank friend may have help Trank agree to save what it was possible, because I don't think that he is that enthousiast in doing FF) and the fact that Josh Trank seems to be less enthousiast than the Fox exec in doing the project tells a lot.
Trank hasn't shown a lack of enthusiasm for the project at all and the studio wouldn't be moving forward with the film if they weren't enthusiastic about it. That's why they allowed Daredevil to revert back to Marvel. They weren't confident in that property.

And Michael B. Jordan's casting has nothing to do with publicity. He's a great actor. Fruitvale Station is a really good movie. To me Trank is just casting good people and not concerning himself with race.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Well, If we go by fans alone our % made up $150 million of the Avengers $1.5 billion.

Or for say Man of Steel, $66 mil of that ones $660mil, of for FF1, we made up $33 of that ones $330 million gross.

And the guy (iirc) said less than 10% (as I recall they said it in response to fans complaining about some of what had been seen from Ang Lee's Hulk prior to it's release).
I don't know why were back to the significance of the importance of the fan base vs the GA. It's simple that the GA won't just go to a movie unless there is positive buzz through marketing and word of mouth. Where does that buzz originate? With the core CB fans because the fans are the first in line to any genre movie. You think Hunger Games, Harry Potter, even The Twilight series would have been successful without their base? So when you say "The fans only make up 10%" is ignoring that the other 90% won't even bother if that 10% says that "That movie is crap" Marvel is successful because they've incorporated to please that fanbase and GA alike to max their profits while Fox/Singer (Even Mangold) doesn't consider the fans when making decisions. The X-Men belong to them and they feel we can do whatever we want. I surmise that even though Marvel has made changes that they thought long and hard,right or wrong about the core fan base and the ramifications. Like IM3 I think a Non-Asian/ Fraud of a Mandarin was more of a negotiated move than a actual decision because Shane Black is a great Director and key for Downey to do the movie. So it was decided that that can be sacrificed in respect to the whole film overall

So here we are that Fox, once again (like they always have done and that hasn't changed from Rothman) is not listening to the screams in the room. They're gonna pump $150 Mill or more into a film with Negative buzz. There is no right and wrong on how people feel about a movie as Marvelrobbins and others try to make the majority on this board feel that we're wrong because we seem to not want to give it a chance. We don't have to. And its Fox's own financial responsibility to want to invest in a movie that the base is against and weigh that on how that so called 10% (though after Marvels recent success with movies IMO it's base grew) will affect its bottom line. In todays movies industry can you really beat your chest on making anything under $500 Mill worldwide with a Marvel property even if some feel that the Wolverine was the "Best CBM this year"? If DOFP doesn't make north of $700mil though its a profit it's still a failure in respect to the Marvel Brand as a whole.

So I digress in that 20th Century Fox has their middle finger high. But I still have this question for them..

WILL IT MAKE YOU MONEY?

Not that "we recouped our budget and made a small profit money" but that multi million dollar profit, "I can buy a whole PLANET" profit. Thats whats Marvel/Disney get with every release..


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Old 11-15-2013, 10:10 AM   #38
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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I don't know why were back to the significance of the importance of the fan base vs the GA.
Because the question was asked as to why Fox do not appear to be concerned by the fans less than enthusiastic response so far to this reboot (and it's not just here. Other sites fan comments have been far more scathing than anything I've seen here).

The question was asked, an answer was offered, Simple as that.

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Old 11-15-2013, 10:16 AM   #39
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Because the question was asked as to why Fox do not appear to be concerned by the fans less than enthusiastic response so far to this reboot (and it's not just here. Other sites fan comments have been far more scathing than anything I've seen here).

The question was asked, an answer was offered, Simple as that.
And we all know that that Universal Executive would be dead wrong in this day and age..
I'm questioning the question itself but not you asking it. Its a subject that has been debated for years, over many boards.. Its just one of those things to get me on the Soap Box LOL!!


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Old 11-15-2013, 10:32 AM   #40
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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I've posted a poll that directly addresses this, so lets see what people actually think. I suspect the number of people who really want it to fail is small, but we'll see.
Of course it is, maybe 2 or 3 people have actually said that. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true.

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Old 11-15-2013, 10:41 AM   #41
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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And we all know that that Universal Executive would be dead wrong in this day and age..
I'm questioning the question itself but not you asking it. Its a subject that has been debated for years, over many boards.. Its just one of those things to get me on the Soap Box LOL!!
I get you and I agree. What the studios may think and what is the reality aint always gonna be the same thing. Even if our money doesn't make a huge % of the overall box office, that our opinions are also representative of how the GA might feel does seem to escape them sometimes.

If anything the fans are more likely to see these films even if they aint all that good. The GA will only make a film a hit if they genuinely like it.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #42
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

Anyone else heard of this supposed leaked script? I saw it on the site that shall not be named and it's absolutely terrible if it's true and it looks fake. It's basically the scene from the Avengers where Cap is giving orders but switched around with the FF.


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Old 11-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Anyone else heard of this supposed leaked script? I saw it on the site that shall not be named and it's absolutely terrible if it's true and it looks fake. It's basically the scene from the Avengers where Cap is giving orders but switched around with the FF.
That script can't be real it's almost exact dialogue from Avengers, like almost word for word.

Gotta give an Ed Lover "C'MON SON" to the site that shall not be named for even running it. Smh.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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That script can't be real it's almost exact dialogue from Avengers, like almost word for word.

Gotta give an Ed Lover "C'MON SON" to the site that shall not be named for even running it. Smh.
I was lol'ing when I was reading it but at the same time I was pissed off.

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Old 11-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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That script can't be real it's almost exact dialogue from Avengers, like almost word for word.

Gotta give an Ed Lover "C'MON SON" to the site that shall not be named for even running it. Smh.
Just got on. That site said (satire) next to it.

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Old 11-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #46
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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With the core CB fans because the fans are the first in line to any genre movie. You think Hunger Games, Harry Potter, even The Twilight series would have been successful without their base? So when you say "The fans only make up 10%" is ignoring that the other 90% won't even bother if that 10% says that "That movie is crap"
Thank you!

You read my mind.

So often do I see people talk about the 'target demographic' argument to defend a movie such as the craptastic Twilight series. But then some of those same people belittle "Fan rants" saying their opinions don't matter compared to the general audience. Well what do you call Comic Book fans if not the 'target demographic' for Comic Book movies?

Good argument Dr T

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Old 11-18-2013, 09:38 PM   #47
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Here's the thing: the fans matter for Hunger Games, Harry Potter, and Twilight because *there are a hell of a lot more of them than all comic readers combined.* Hunger Games sold 28 million copies in the US alone. That is more than two orders of magnitude greater than the highest selling comic book title.

So, yes, the fans matter. . .when there are tens of millions of them. Which is not the case with comics.

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Old 11-19-2013, 01:58 AM   #48
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Here's the thing: the fans matter for Hunger Games, Harry Potter, and Twilight because *there are a hell of a lot more of them than all comic readers combined.* Hunger Games sold 28 million copies in the US alone. That is more than two orders of magnitude greater than the highest selling comic book title.

So, yes, the fans matter. . .when there are tens of millions of them. Which is not the case with comics.
well to be fair, there's a lot of huge superhero fans that have never read a comic, or just currently arn't reading them. Comic sales don't depict the Comic-book hero fandom what so ever anymore...

I cant really be any bigger of a spidey fan, and I haven't bought his books in years.

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Old 11-19-2013, 07:34 AM   #49
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

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Here's the thing: the fans matter for Hunger Games, Harry Potter, and Twilight because *there are a hell of a lot more of them than all comic readers combined.* Hunger Games sold 28 million copies in the US alone. That is more than two orders of magnitude greater than the highest selling comic book title.

So, yes, the fans matter. . .when there are tens of millions of them. Which is not the case with comics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111
well to be fair, there's a lot of huge superhero fans that have never read a comic, or just currently arn't reading them. Comic sales don't depict the Comic-book hero fandom what so ever anymore...

I cant really be any bigger of a spidey fan, and I haven't bought his books in years.
Because he's not recognizing that other media and merchandising like the cartoons over the years have as much to do with creating core fan-dom as the books alone. Thats the old school way of thinking. Do you really think that the first X-Men film would have done so well without the popularity of the Cartoon that preceded it (to the GA)? Now those Former GA are now fans and have maybe pick-up the comic book later. It all works together in the comic book media. So i'd say that if you take 50+ years of Marvel (And I did see some older heads at T:TDWin the seats) fans spanning 3 generations may equal or out number the single book fans you mentioned is why Marvel is succeeding in the B.O while Fox is failing in comparison with their Marvel properties.

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Old 11-19-2013, 09:11 AM   #50
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 8

I'm not an Iron Man 'fan'. I've never bought an Iron Man comic-book, I don't discuss Iron Man in the Iron Man section.

I probably don't fall into that 10% that are 'fans'.

BUT I know a little bit about Iron Man. I've seen him in team-ups and crossovers. I know a little bit about what he looks like, his back-story and his abilities. When I go to an Iron Man film, I won't notice or care if they change little details, but I expect him to be pretty close to what I know.

If I see a preview and Iron Man is purple and blue, I'm not going to be particularly interested in seeing that because it's not Iron Man - it's just some guy in purple and blue armor.

But beyond that, it's not just that the film-makers need to please fans. There's a reason fans are out there that film-makers may never understand. Characters who last for 50 years have undefinable characteristics that audiences relate to.

It's extremely ignorant and arrogant for a film-maker to come along and say: "I can 'improve' these characters. I've got some really cool ideas that will make them a lot better than the versions that fans have followed for the past 50 years."

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are icons. Mark Millar and Josh Trank have talent, but they haven't earned the right to assume they are smarter than the legends who actually created properties that have now shown themselves to be worth billions.

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