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View Poll Results: If Fox makes the film, I hope:
It is a great movie suited to these classic characters. 20 68.97%
I hope it is a bad movie and fails commercially. 9 31.03%
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:13 PM   #101
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While the Ultimate characterization of the FF missed a few beats, Kirby and Lee's run was not flawless either. Make no mistake: Kirby is a god of science fiction art and Lee popularized the Marvel paradigm through the team. However, reading the older issues, it becomes tiring and grating when Sue Storm is usually reduced to the damsel in distress. I would prefer the screenwriters avoid the scenario and accurately depict her power level (as much as it was flawed, Civil War got one thing right: Sue is a game-changer, with her power level.)

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Old 11-18-2013, 01:19 PM   #102
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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #103
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That Stan Lee was some writer...

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Old 11-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #104
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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this film tanking, is the best way possible at the moment (and soonest, unless this film isnt even ever made) to get a quality 616 based Fantastic Four film, by having Marvel bring it home.

I don't really care how good an Ultimate Fantastic Four film is... It wont be the characters and interpretations i already know and love. So i'd rather that franchise burn to the ground
But we don't know that they will go Ultimate, so my hope, in order is:

1. Fox will turn over rights and Marvel will do a 616 version in the next 5 years.
2. Fox will do a kick ass 616 version themselves.
3. Other scenerios that are likely but I don't want to think about.

My hope is that the Ultimate influences will be minimal. Some seem to think that they need to go Ultimate because when we look at the Kirby/Lee books they obviously can't be directly translated, and that's true, but there's no reason an update has to go Ultimate.

John Byrne did a great, fresh take on the characters that was much more 'modern' but faithful to the key things Kirby and Lee created. Jim Lee went a little farther with Heroes Reborn, but again, he was much more faithful than Ultimate.

Ultimate wasn't an update, it was a complete rethinking of the characters that was pointless and created an inferior product to the classics.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #105
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

The only thing I like about ultimate is the source of their powers. Negative Zone is more intriguing to me personally than cosmic space rays.

I do not like the youthfulness of the team though. Or Doom. Or any of the other major plot points.

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Old 11-18-2013, 07:06 PM   #106
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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While the Ultimate characterization of the FF missed a few beats, Kirby and Lee's run was not flawless either. Make no mistake: Kirby is a god of science fiction art and Lee popularized the Marvel paradigm through the team. However, reading the older issues, it becomes tiring and grating when Sue Storm is usually reduced to the damsel in distress. I would prefer the screenwriters avoid the scenario and accurately depict her power level (as much as it was flawed, Civil War got one thing right: Sue is a game-changer, with her power level.)
This^ It was also a problem for me in the previous F4 films, especially the second one. She is the most powerful of the four and she was shown to be the weakest in the films, she always had to be rescued and was used mainly as fan service when she had to strip to turn invisible or when she and Johnny swapped powers in the second film, and all her clothes burned off.

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Old 11-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #107
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I hope FOX gives the film back to Marvel, but if they decide to go on ahead I want it to be a great film, and I hope it NEVER crosses over with the X-Men. The idea itself makes me sick.

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Old 11-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #108
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I hope FOX gives the film back to Marvel, but if they decide to go on ahead I want it to be a great film, and I hope it NEVER crosses over with the X-Men. The idea itself makes me sick.
I don't follow why its okay for the FF to interact with the Avengers but not the X-Men. They're all superhero squads in the end that originated in the 60s under Lee and Kirby.

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Old 11-19-2013, 02:03 AM   #109
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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I don't follow why its okay for the FF to interact with the Avengers but not the X-Men. They're all superhero squads in the end that originated in the 60s under Lee and Kirby.
because up until recently the X-men have been pretty isolated for years.. most of there stories are simply just mutant affairs. not world wide threats. There "species" comes first typically. A few venture out into heroism. but it's usually short lived unless you're wolverine.

The X-men are essentially a black ops team to take down other mutant threats that tarnish their image to society. Not run of the mill heroes.

Add to that... The X-men/FF cross over stories honestly haven't been that great. some decent ones.. but nothing stupendous that needs to be on screen.
couple that with the fact that the X-men already have their Reed Richards (Beast, Forge, Xavier), Their Thing (Wolverine, Colossus), Their Human Torch (Iceman, Pyro), and Their Invisible Woman (Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue)

there's nothing honestly that the Fantastic Four could add to the X-men universe that they don't already have.


it even further complicates things when Mutants are feared by the public, and the fantastic four (mutated humans via science) are praised and treated as if celebrities. There worlds really don't merge well

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Old 11-19-2013, 04:56 AM   #110
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^This, and I feel that the tone of the F4 would have to become darker for them to fit in the X-Men Universe. I don't like the idea of a darker, grittier F4 it should definitely be more serious than the previous films, but not as serious as the X-Men. The humour in the MCU fits the F4 perfectly and it avoids that contradiction of genetically altered good, mutants bad.

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Old 11-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #111
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^this and ^^this And to add Heros and Mutants have always been separate categories in the Marvel World because of what Spideyboy mentioned.

Edit: Plus it was very rare that the X-Men crossed over with the FF when it was not involving the Marvel Universe as a whole in crossover events. Their main villains in Doom and Magneto have nothing in common what so ever so why should the teams?


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Old 11-19-2013, 09:13 AM   #112
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Still not hearing any truly valid reasons for why they can't aid each other with larger-than-life threats (Shi'ar War, Galactus, etc).

And unlike a crossover with the Marvel/Disney universe where you already have Stark, Banner and possibly Pym, Reed would be the only genius in the room when teaming up with the X-Men. Beast would be his assistant at best.

A room filled with four geniuses is overkill. Three is still overkill if Pym really doesn't get to be in the Avengers.

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Old 11-19-2013, 09:55 AM   #113
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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Originally Posted by Naji Assan View Post
Still not hearing any truly valid reasons for why they can't aid each other with larger-than-life threats (Shi'ar War, Galactus, etc).

And unlike a crossover with the Marvel/Disney universe where you already have Stark, Banner and possibly Pym, Reed would be the only genius in the room when teaming up with the X-Men. Beast would be his assistant at best.

A room filled with four geniuses is overkill. Three is still overkill if Pym really doesn't get to be in the Avengers.
One reason is that 7 films into the Singer created FOX X-Verse there has been no contact with alien life. There hasn't been consciousness time travel or mutant hunting robots (outside of the Danger Room) either, but that is a monumental change for a series that was established in being in a world just like ours, with the only difference being human genetic mutations. X-Men in space does not fit at all with the existing series.

The other reason is that there is a very good possibility that FOX won't be able to merge their X-Men and FF franchises, and Millar's very aggressive backpedaling is an indication that this is the case. These Marvel character families were sold at different times under (presumably) different terms. Unless the words "crossover" or "merging" or some variation appear in both contracts, Disney has a case that a mash-up would constitute a violation of the spirit of the original, separate agreements. And the Mouse certainly hasn't been shy using legal remedies to resolving issues involving it's IP rights.

Yet another reason is that, in a world in which human genetic mutations allow people to teleport, control the weather and fly, what is so fascinating about a family flying off into space and coming back with comparable powers? It was a big deal in FF #1, and would be a big deal in the MCU. But for a franchise that has has not been shy about putting lots of very obscure mutants on the big screen, the First Family's story would be severly downgraded.


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Old 11-19-2013, 10:08 AM   #114
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Still not hearing any truly valid reasons for why they can't aid each other with larger-than-life threats (Shi'ar War, Galactus, etc).

And unlike a crossover with the Marvel/Disney universe where you already have Stark, Banner and possibly Pym, Reed would be the only genius in the room when teaming up with the X-Men. Beast would be his assistant at best.

A room filled with four geniuses is overkill. Three is still overkill if Pym really doesn't get to be in the Avengers.
And you won't hear it because,
A) You're debating against those who probably have a collection of said comic books in their possession that they've actually read

B) Accusing a company (Marvel/Disney) which may adjust aspects of the source material do so after thinking of the Fans and GA alike. Something Fox has never done.

Which is reason why Fox and yourself can't fathom the logic of why Fox is failing with their Marvel properties. Change maybe but don't force things and aspects that were never, in the source material, there to begin with.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:07 AM   #115
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

FF and the X-Men go together like cookies and ass. What's next, WB adapting Superman vs Muhammad Ali?

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:11 AM   #116
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And you won't hear it because,
A) You're debating against those who probably have a collection of said comic books in their possession that they've actually read[/B]
So I don't read FF comics now?

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B) Accusing a company (Marvel/Disney) which may adjust aspects of the source material do so after thinking of the Fans and GA alike. Something Fox has never done.[/B]
So Marvel/Disney was "thinking of me" when they butchered Mandarin?

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Which is reason why Fox and yourself can't fathom the logic of why Fox is failing with their Marvel properties. Change maybe but don't force things and aspects that were never, in the source material, there to begin with.
How is Fox failing exactly? The Wolverine is at $415 Million off a $120 Million budget.

And (I also said this in the other thread) Marvel/Disney haven't been source-material accurate either (Ultimate Fury, Mandarin, non-Pym Ultron, etc.)

The only "logic" I see here is that you personally don't like Fox which is not a valid reason to discard an X-Men/FF crossover.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:14 AM   #117
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FF and the X-Men go together like cookies and ass. What's next, WB adapting Superman vs Muhammad Ali?
Care to offer an intelligent reason for why they can't interact?

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:18 AM   #118
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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Still not hearing any truly valid reasons for why they can't aid each other with larger-than-life threats (Shi'ar War, Galactus, etc).

And unlike a crossover with the Marvel/Disney universe where you already have Stark, Banner and possibly Pym, Reed would be the only genius in the room when teaming up with the X-Men. Beast would be his assistant at best.

A room filled with four geniuses is overkill. Three is still overkill if Pym really doesn't get to be in the Avengers.
.... well for one, the x-men movies have zero connection with the Shi'ar and never will considering the big tie to the X-men is the Phoenix Force... which, doesn't exist in the film series. So there's that... second The X-men Fighting Galactus, is like the Midnight Son's going up against the Sinister Six...

it's incredibly forced.



re-check yourself on what a valid argument is... because you're refusing to see logic. The X-men Movie universe of themes is quite honestly the complete opposite of the Fantastic Four's themes. The FF would have to be drastically changed to fit in that world.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #119
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IMO, Dr. Doom is the key to the film's success. They need to do it right. My choice is Mads Mikkelson.

No nerdy looking actor for Dr. Doom. It works for Kick Ass (McLovin as a villain) but it should not work here.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #120
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One reason is that 7 films into the Singer created FOX X-Verse there has been no contact with alien life. There hasn't been consciousness time travel or mutant hunting robots (outside of the Danger Room) either, but that is a monumental change for a series that was established in being in a world just like ours, with the only difference being human genetic mutations. X-Men in space does not fit at all with the existing series.
You could say the same about every Marvel/Disney movie before Thor where there was zero alien life. The series evolved and so can the X films.

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The other reason is that there is a very good possibility that FOX won't be able to merge their X-Men and FF franchises, and Millar's very aggressive backpedaling is an indication that this is the case. These Marvel character families were sold at different times under (presumably) different terms. Unless the words "crossover" or "merging" or some variation appear in both contracts, Disney has a case that a mash-up would constitute a violation of the spirit of the original, separate agreements. And the Mouse certainly hasn't been shy using legal remedies to resolving issues involving it's IP rights.
Speculation on rights issues is not a valid reason for why the FF can't team up with the X-Men.

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Yet another reason is that, in a world in which human genetic mutations allow people to teleport, control the weather and fly, what is so fascinating about a family flying off into space and coming back with comparable powers? It was a big deal in FF #1, and would be a big deal in the MCU. But for a franchise that has has not been shy about putting lots of very obscure mutants on the big screen, the First Family's story would be severly downgraded.
And by that logic how would it not be downgraded by a world filled with giant green monsters, supersoldiers, Norse Gods/aliens, Extremis soldiers and all the other superhumans at Marvel/Disney?

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #121
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So I don't read FF comics now?



So Marvel/Disney was "thinking of me" when they butchered Mandarin?



How is Fox failing exactly? The Wolverine is at $415 Million off a $120 Million budget.

And (I also said this in the other thread) Marvel/Disney haven't been source-material accurate either (Ultimate Fury, Mandarin, non-Pym Ultron, etc.)

The only "logic" I see here is that you personally don't like Fox which is not a valid reason to discard an X-Men/FF crossover.
... and Ultimate (and 616 black fury) exist..., Killian was EXACTLY like mandarin in the Extremis story arc... perfectly adapted. Just not the same person (though... We also don't know what's coming up with Ben Kingsley returning in a short that's suppose to not "disappoint those who were disappointed" so don't be to sure on things just yet...

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #122
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

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Care to offer an intelligent reason for why they can't interact?
It's already been explained to you. It'll sink in eventually.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:28 AM   #123
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Default Re: Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

Franklin Richards would be good to tie the F4 and X-Men.

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:29 AM   #124
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You could say the same about every Marvel/Disney movie before Thor where there was zero alien life. The series evolved and so can the X films.

And by that logic how would it not be downgraded by a world filled with giant green monsters, supersoldiers, Norse Gods/aliens, Extremis soldiers and all the other superhumans at Marvel/Disney?
Sigh...another Marvel Studios hater. At least you don't think that all Marvel Studios fans think that Marvel Studios is 100% perfect (which is not. I am not going to repeat the issues I have with Marvel Studios in this thread, even though I am a fan).

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #125
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.... well for one, the x-men movies have zero connection with the Shi'ar and never will considering the big tie to the X-men is the Phoenix Force... which, doesn't exist in the film series. So there's that...
It doesn't exist because it hasn't been adapted yet? Great argument, guy. Days of Future Past hadn't been adapted a year ago.

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re-check yourself on what a valid argument is... because you're refusing to see logic.
Because "logic" is Marvel/Disney = good and Fox = Bad.

You got nothing going for you in the "logic" department, pal.

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The X-men Movie universe of themes is quite honestly the complete opposite of the Fantastic Four's themes. The FF would have to be drastically changed to fit in that world.
The FF are Marvel superheroes created in the 60s by Stan Lee. The X-Men are Marvel superheroes created in the 60s by Stan Lee. The end (At least until you offer a valid reason for why they can't possibly work together in a film).

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