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Old 11-21-2013, 10:14 PM   #276
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Even though nobody knowing that he's Superman is seriously stupid, I'm still super excited for when they do this scene:

This is MY Superman! I love this illustration. Every time it see it I'm 7 years old all over again. Great memories of a young superman fan.

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Old 11-21-2013, 10:20 PM   #277
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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This is MY Superman! I love this illustration. Every time it see it I'm 7 years old all over again. Great memories of a young superman fan.
Heh, yes I love that. It's going to be so exciting.


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Old 11-21-2013, 10:26 PM   #278
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They haven't. They weren't even considering a DC filmverse originally.
???

http://www.blastr.com/2013-8-29/wann...anbatman-movie

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Old 11-21-2013, 10:27 PM   #279
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Thank you for posting that.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:29 PM   #280
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Thank you for posting that.
No prob. It was honestly harder to find than I expected, heh. That was a common topic of discussion during the Superman Returns posting days.

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Old 11-22-2013, 01:42 AM   #281
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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This only validates the Christopher Reeve version of Clark Kent.

By acting like a clumsy goof no one even considers that Superman is standing right next to them.

A grounded version with a weaker disguise makes little sense.
"Disguise" is irrelevant if the story is told in a way that doesn't need it. Have Superman always avoid interacting with anyone who might know Clark, and he would also need to avoid having his picture taken. If they do that, Clark wouldn't need to disguise his face or behavior at all, and if he did, it'd just be insurance in case he happened to run into Luthor on the street (yeah right).

Like, OK, there's a really funny bit in an episode of Justice League Unlimited. The Flash and Luthor switch bodies, and Luthor decides he's going to unmask himself so that he can learn who the Flash is. He pulls the mask off and finds... he has no idea who is under the mask. As far as Luthor is concerned, the mask on the superhero is MEANINGLESS. Masks and such are only truly useful to disguise a person who might be seen in both halves of their double life. So when Clark works with Lois and Superman is dating Lois, that could never work. But if Superman only ever directly interacts with Luthor or Zod or Brainiac, and the people at the Daily Planet never see Superman up close, it doesn't matter at all if Superman and Clark Kent have identical faces. If almost no one knows what Superman looks like, no one will stop Clark on the street and accuse him of being Superman.

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In a realistic world, people would also be wondering why the aliens speak English.
They spoke many languages of Earth. Presumably, they picked them up from radio waves in space before arriving. In the earlier scenes set on Krypton, they all spoke English due to translation convention.

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Old 11-22-2013, 01:46 AM   #282
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They spoke many languages of Earth. Presumably, they picked them up from radio waves in space before arriving. In the earlier scenes set on Krypton, they all spoke English due to translation convention.
Nah, the TARDIS is translating the alien language for them.

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Old 11-22-2013, 01:48 AM   #283
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They spoke many languages of Earth. Presumably, they picked them up from radio waves in space before arriving. In the earlier scenes set on Krypton, they all spoke English due to translation convention.
Aliens speak English in most science fiction. It's a generic world-building error, but a useful one to tell a story.

However, if Clark Kent was real he would probably never learn to speak English properly. It's been shown by Noam Chomsky and others that human languages have universal grammatical roles, and we know that language skills correspond to certain regions of the brain. He would probably end up speaking an "odd" English at best, perhaps with entire tenses disappearing, or something like that.


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Old 11-22-2013, 01:55 AM   #284
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I never said that. I said the film doesn't show anyone else seeing what happened at the Kent farm other than Lois and those directly involved, so complaining about such a possibility is kind of silly. It is entirely possible that the UFO was seen by someone else. But from a logical standpoint, even if the UFO WAS seen on the Kent farm, what does that prove, exactly, about Clark's role in events, to the average person?

These aliens landed in and tore up half of Smallville. That they also tore up the Kent farm (and several other farms, it appears) doesn't exactly point the finger at Clark being Superman in context.
The aliens made the announcement that they were looking for a specific man.

And then landed at an exact specific house and destroyed it.

After that Superman took the battle to another street. So the aliens didn't randomly land anywhere, they landed exactly where they wanted and Superman took them away from his house.

So the people know where Superman lives now because that is where the aliens landed.

What else have you got?

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Old 11-22-2013, 01:57 AM   #285
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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The aliens made the announcement that they were looking for a specific man.

And then landed at an exact specific house and destroyed it.

After that Superman took the battle to another street. So the aliens didn't randomly land anywhere, they landed exactly where they wanted and Superman took them away from his house.

So the people know where Superman lives now because that is where the aliens landed.

What else have you got?
Is it safe to assume that the entire planet knows that Zod visited the geographically isolated Kent farm?

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Old 11-22-2013, 02:15 AM   #286
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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The aliens made the announcement that they were looking for a specific man.

And then landed at an exact specific house and destroyed it.

After that Superman took the battle to another street. So the aliens didn't randomly land anywhere, they landed exactly where they wanted and Superman took them away from his house.

So the people know where Superman lives now because that is where the aliens landed.

What else have you got?

Meh...that can be easily explained away. There was a lot of destruction in Smallville. Trains were being tossed in the air...lol. I'm sure there were other properties effected by the alien invasion. There wouldn't be a need to single out the Kents if they were one of many affected.

Now...Lois running up to Superman and calling him "Clark" in front of a LEO is another story...lol. We're all just going to have to forget that happen, or pretend there is no way that officer heard her. Then we have to move on and let it go.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:21 AM   #287
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Is it safe to assume that the entire planet knows that Zod visited the geographically isolated Kent farm?
I would say so. A monumental occurence in the history of humanity, that is aliens landing on earth, would be extremely elaborately and closely covered down to every single facet non-stop for atleast 2 months on every new channel around the world.

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Old 11-22-2013, 02:56 AM   #288
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Just wondering... how would Perry or military personel not know he is Superman? Is anyone up for some Jor-el magic?? "My son... to continue as the savior this world needs, you must choose anonymity... for that reason, all humans that once knew your Kryptonian and Earth origins will be wiped free of this knowledge. I can only do this one time Kal-el. Only reveal yourself again, when the time is absolutely right." Ha ha

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Old 11-22-2013, 03:08 AM   #289
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Heh, yes I love that. It's going to be so exciting.

I really want this but I never got where his cape goes?

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Old 11-22-2013, 03:28 AM   #290
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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This is MY Superman! I love this illustration. Every time it see it I'm 7 years old all over again. Great memories of a young superman fan.
Me too

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Old 11-22-2013, 05:48 AM   #291
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Even though nobody knowing that he's Superman is seriously stupid, I'm still super excited for when they do this scene:

Yeah we've got to see Cavill do that.

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Old 11-22-2013, 05:56 AM   #292
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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However, if Clark Kent was real he would probably never learn to speak English properly. It's been shown by Noam Chomsky and others that human languages have universal grammatical roles, and we know that language skills correspond to certain regions of the brain. He would probably end up speaking an "odd" English at best, perhaps with entire tenses disappearing, or something like that.
Kryptonians are frequently shown to have "stronger" brains on Earth as well, so I would only imagine that he wouldn't have too much trouble learning a language his biology wasn't evolved to already accept.

That aside, biology of an alien humanoid brain allowing it to learn English isn't that outlandish compared to the general idea of a race of alien life far away just randomly happening to look EXACTLY like humans on Earth. If their biology evolved to look like homo-sapiens, why couldn't their brain similarly be somehow exactly the same??

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:07 AM   #293
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Ah well, if you start getting into the niti-grities of alien life forms, it becomes a hugely problematic scenario. Prometheus absolutely collapses if you think even a little bit about it.

Frankly almost none of these fantasy movies stand up to rational scrutiny, all are bound to fail at some level because they ARE fantasy after all.

But some movies fail at logic more than they need to and much more than others. And Goyer's films might be examples of these.

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:14 AM   #294
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Ah well, if you start getting into the niti-grities of alien life forms, it becomes a hugely problematic scenario. Prometheus absolutely collapses if you think even a little bit about it.

Frankly almost none of these fantasy movies stand up to rational scrutiny, all are bound to fail at some level because they ARE fantasy after all.

But some movies fail at logic more than they need to and much more than others. And Goyer's films might be examples of these.
What did you dislike about the ancient alien hypothesis as presented in Prometheus?

I actually think it's pretty good, other than the fact that the ancient alien hypothesis is incorrect.

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:17 AM   #295
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What did you dislike about the ancient alien hypothesis as presented in Prometheus?

I actually think it's pretty good, other than the fact that the ancient alien hypothesis is incorrect.
It gets evolution completely wrong. We evolved from a single cell organism. Basically from a very crude form of life into homo sapiens.

The movie showed that life started when the blood of a fully developed organism with extremely complicated cell structure was seeded on earth. It basically contradicts evolution.

(And also how can other beings evolve from an already evolved cell. Like how could a homo spaiens cell follow the path of fish and then amphibians and reptiles and dinosaurs etc. etc.)

Secondly, Rapace does a DNA match and discovers a 100% match between humans and the alien race even though they are nothing alike in strength or appearance or even seemingly composition. Again absolute bollocks.

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:30 AM   #296
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It gets evolution completely wrong. We evolved from a single cell organism. Basically from a very crude form of life into homo sapiens.

The movie showed that life started when the blood of a fully developed organism with extremely complicated cell structure was seeded on earth. It basically contradicts evolution.

(And also how can other beings evolve from an already evolved cell. Like how could a homo spaiens cell follow the path of fish and then amphibians and reptiles and dinosaurs etc. etc.)
Then you might as well dislike Terminator because it has time travel in it. I agree that "ancient alien hypothesis" is bunk, but it's the underlying logic of the movie, the initial conditions, so we have to go with it and see where it takes us.

BTW, life can evolve from evolved life, for example, we come from fish.

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Secondly, Rapace does a DNA match and discovers a 100% match between humans and the alien race even though they are nothing alike in strength or appearance or even seemingly composition. Again absolute bollocks.
This is less problematic.

I've seen identical twins look somewhat different even though they have identical DNA, and they grew up in similar environments. Environment counts for a lot, so with a different environment they might look very different, as relative to an alien world, no two human beings ever raised on Earth are ever exposed to a different environment. That includes everything from the gravity level we're raised to the nutrition level in the womb to the proteins we're exposed to it. Even with identical DNA, the DNA that's actually used could be totally different.

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:48 AM   #297
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I really want this but I never got where his cape goes?
The red boots are more of a mystery.

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Old 11-22-2013, 07:04 AM   #298
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Exactly!

And it's stuff like that which makes me wonder why people want an explanation for the glasses.

Cause if you explain the glasses, don't you have to explain how he wears the suit under his clothes too? And if he doesn't wear the suit under his clothes, does that mean he has to go and get changed every time there is a disaster?

I just don't get why we can't leave the silliness of it as it is and just get on with it. It's never been a problem before now, people just think it's funny.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 11-22-2013, 07:15 AM   #299
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I just don't get why we can't leave the silliness of it as it is and just get on with it. It's never been a problem before now, people just think it's funny.
1) Culture has changed. Goofiness isn't as popular as it used to be.
2) MoS is constructed to be a serious movie set in a serious universe, which means viewers need serious world-building.

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Old 11-22-2013, 07:27 AM   #300
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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1) Culture has changed. Goofiness isn't as popular as it used to be.
2) MoS is constructed to be a serious movie set in a serious universe, which means viewers need serious world-building.
I couldn't disagree more.

I didn't feel like MOS was grounded in reality at all.

They made some efforts to treat the growth of his character with a 'What would it really be like for someone to grow up like that' attitude, but the actual world around him, the presentation of events and the dialogue didn't come across as 'real world' to me.

I mean geez, some of that dialogue was goofy as hell. 'I think that only counts if your kissing a human?'

Clark Kent's disguise being glasses, and being something he can change into in a split second because it is under his clothes - they are just fun parts of the character that no one will actually criticize the film for continuing to use.

I mean, even Spiderman was allowed a shirt rip!

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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