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Old 12-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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The actual, real original idea was this:

Spider-Man stopped up one of Toome's business endeavors, which got Toomes really angry and in prison.
Flint had his thing still, but needed someone smart to break him out. So they teamed up. Vulture was over consumed by revenge, and by the end of the movie, Spider-Man tried to reach out and make peace. Vulture couldn't do it and ends up meeting his demise because of his hatred.

They all discussed this and agreed Toomes felt out of place, and his revenge for JUST Spider-Man wasn't doing it for them. They wanted someone who had connections to Peter as well, which is when Eddie Brock came in. It became really convenient because of their relationship at the Bugle, PLUS the relationship they share both having the Symbiote costume. It also worked out because the whole Symbiote-amplifying-aggression bit really worked for both Peter and Flint and then Eddie and Peter.

In my opinion, Venom fit that plot way more than Vulture. I feel they made the right choice replacing him.
Yeah,at the end of the day,Venom was a better fit to the story than Vulture.

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Old 12-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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It's better than the reboot

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Old 12-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

All of the additional material that came with Venom only padded the film to excess. The original pitch used Sandman and Vulture as a complimentary pair who represented different ends of the spectrum of villainy. It was much simpler and would have been far more effective.

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Old 12-10-2013, 07:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

I can see people debating SM1 is better than ASM.

But SM3 over ASM?

That's just crazy talk.

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Old 12-10-2013, 07:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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All of the additional material that came with Venom only padded the film to excess. The original pitch used Sandman and Vulture as a complimentary pair who represented different ends of the spectrum of villainy. It was much simpler and would have been far more effective.
Agreed. There was no room for Venom in that movie, period, and Vulture would have been much better. Can't wait to see Vulture on the big screen someday (possibly in 2016).

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I can see people debating SM1 is better than ASM.

But SM3 over ASM?

That's just crazy talk.
What has the world come to?! lol

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Old 12-10-2013, 09:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Spidey 3 was not a good movie, but it was a fun movie. TASM was a bad movie.

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Old 12-10-2013, 09:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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Spidey 3 was not a good movie, but it was a fun movie. TASM was a bad movie.
SM3 was not fun, it was insulting and a waste of potential.

ASM was divisive due to the Raimi loyalist but it's far from a bad movie.

Quite a few people rank it above both SM1 and SM3.

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Old 12-10-2013, 10:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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SM3 was not fun, it was insulting and a waste of potential.
Yeah, that's why it's the biggest hit of the series. because no one had any fun with it.

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ASM was divisive due to the Raimi loyalist but it's far from a bad movie.
That's a tired excuse from the Webb loyalists.

I enjoyed the Raimi films and think the first two are very good movies. I also think they're flawed. And I had no issue whatsoever with them rebooting the films. I like Tobey as Peter/Spidey and yet am fine with Garfield taking over. TASMs are just bad movies. Bad scripts, bad characterization. It has nothing to do with loyalty to Raimi. I'd love to see someone top Raimi. Webb simply isn't capable of doing it.

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Quite a few people rank it above both SM1 and SM3.
And even more people rank it below them both.

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Old 12-10-2013, 10:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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Yeah, that's why it's the biggest hit of the series. because no one had any fun with it.



That's a tired excuse from the Webb loyalists.

I enjoyed the Raimi films and think the first two are very good movies. I also think they're flawed. And I had no issue whatsoever with them rebooting the films. I like Tobey as Peter/Spidey and yet am fine with Garfield taking over. TASMs are just bad movies. Bad scripts, bad characterization. It has nothing to do with loyalty to Raimi. I'd love to see someone top Raimi. Webb simply isn't capable of doing it.



And even more people rank it below them both.
I'm basing my assessment of ASM's ranking on RottenTomato user scores and this poll:

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...213&highlight=

Where does your assessment of public opinion come from?

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Old 12-10-2013, 10:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Sorry to break it to you guys but the people who think ASM is the best Spider-man movie outnumber those who think it's the worst by a wide margin.

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Old 12-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
I'm basing my assessment of ASM's ranking on RottenTomato user scores and this poll:

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...213&highlight=

Where does your assessment of public opinion come from?
I'm basing my assessment on Rotten Tomatoes and box office returns. More people like every other Spider-Man film on RT than TASM. And more people went to see every other film than TASM.

As for the Hype poll you linked to- that's only 54 people that think TASM is the best. 70 think it isn't. So even in that miniscule ranking it loses.

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Old 12-10-2013, 11:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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I'm basing my assessment on Rotten Tomatoes and box office returns. More people like every other Spider-Man film on RT than TASM. And more people went to see every other film than TASM.

As for the Hype poll you linked to- that's only 54 people that think TASM is the best. 70 think it isn't. So even in that miniscule ranking it loses.
The critic rating on RottenTomatoes is based on a small minority. Box office doesn't measure quality, it simply measures how many people gave a movie a chance, not how many people liked it. There are alot of people who avoided ASM who might've liked it.

The poll I linked states that most voters thought ASM was better than both SM1 and SM3.

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Old 12-11-2013, 12:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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The critic rating on RottenTomatoes is based on a small minority. Box office doesn't measure quality, it simply measures how many people gave a movie a chance, not how many people liked it. There are alot of people who avoided ASM who might've liked it.

The poll I linked states that most voters thought ASM was better than both SM1 and SM3.
The poll you linked to is a handful of fans of TASM. It isn't even a significant number of Hype members. It's just the people who focus in on that series.

As for the RT likes- I'm talking about users who liked the films. The numbers for both Spidey 1 & 3 are much larger than those who liked TASM.

As for box office- the folks who avoided it did so for a reason, just as they went to see the other films for a reason. It's simply denial on the part of fans of TASM to make excuses for why it wasn't well received. We had the same thing with Ang Lee's Hulk, Daredevil and the FF films were released.

And here's another interesting thing that seems apparent (And I could be wrong) but it really looks like the majority of hardcore TASM fans were kids when Spidey 1 came out. TASM was released when they were in their teens to early twenties. So it's their Twilight. It doesn't matter that it isn't actually a good movie, and I'll bet once they get over their "crush" they'll see that the movie wasn't very good. They simply love Garfield and Stone the way Twilight fans love the leads from that series. The Raimi films didn't go for that style of story-telling, so the youngsters don't have that kind of connection to it. My theory of course.

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Old 12-11-2013, 12:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Box office doesn't determine quality which is why First Class is considered a better movie than X3 for example.

This isn't denial, it's obvious to almost anyone.

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Old 12-11-2013, 01:24 AM   #40
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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The poll you linked to is a handful of fans of TASM. It isn't even a significant number of Hype members. It's just the people who focus in on that series.

As for the RT likes- I'm talking about users who liked the films. The numbers for both Spidey 1 & 3 are much larger than those who liked TASM.

As for box office- the folks who avoided it did so for a reason, just as they went to see the other films for a reason. It's simply denial on the part of fans of TASM to make excuses for why it wasn't well received. We had the same thing with Ang Lee's Hulk, Daredevil and the FF films were released.

And here's another interesting thing that seems apparent (And I could be wrong) but it really looks like the majority of hardcore TASM fans were kids when Spidey 1 came out. TASM was released when they were in their teens to early twenties. So it's their Twilight. It doesn't matter that it isn't actually a good movie, and I'll bet once they get over their "crush" they'll see that the movie wasn't very good. They simply love Garfield and Stone the way Twilight fans love the leads from that series. The Raimi films didn't go for that style of story-telling, so the youngsters don't have that kind of connection to it. My theory of course.
This is just a pile of meaningless mumbo jumbo thrown together. The "youngsters" really liked TASM because they love Garfield and Stone together, that's it!

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Old 12-11-2013, 03:58 AM   #41
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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This is just a pile of meaningless mumbo jumbo thrown together. The "youngsters" really liked TASM because they love Garfield and Stone together, that's it!
Yeah.. Like the two leads from Twilight. Thanks for confirming.

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Old 12-11-2013, 04:13 AM   #42
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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Box office doesn't determine quality which is why First Class is considered a better movie than X3 for example.

This isn't denial, it's obvious to almost anyone.
But it does confirm how much people liked the film. That you seem to think TASM's lower box office means something significant about its quality suggests denial. People didn't see it because they had no interest in it.
TDK was a huge hit despite Begins not being much of one because people wanted to see the movie whereas Begins was pretty boring. However Begins was a bigger success than B & R because B & R was a bad movie. It's pretty simple. First Class wasn't a great movie either. It was only better than X3, which isn't hard to be.

Only fanboys rant about Spidey 3. The same fanboys who keep coming here and reviving old threads or starting endless ones about it's imagined failure. The box office numbers for Spidey 3 say that people were going back for multiple viewings, so they definitely enjoyed the film.

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Old 12-11-2013, 05:13 AM   #43
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But it does confirm how much people liked the film. That you seem to think TASM's lower box office means something significant about its quality suggests denial. People didn't see it because they had no interest in it.
TDK was a huge hit despite Begins not being much of one because people wanted to see the movie whereas Begins was pretty boring. However Begins was a bigger success than B & R because B & R was a bad movie. It's pretty simple. First Class wasn't a great movie either. It was only better than X3, which isn't hard to be.

Only fanboys rant about Spidey 3. The same fanboys who keep coming here and reviving old threads or starting endless ones about it's imagined failure. The box office numbers for Spidey 3 say that people were going back for multiple viewings, so they definitely enjoyed the film.
QFT


I'll never back down from the fact that SM 3 is a good movie.Flawed,yeah.But it sure isn't the epic Batman & Robin failure that some people try to make it out to be.

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Old 12-11-2013, 05:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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But it does confirm how much people liked the film. That you seem to think TASM's lower box office means something significant about its quality suggests denial. People didn't see it because they had no interest in it.
There is truth to this

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Only fanboys rant about Spidey 3. The same fanboys who keep coming here and reviving old threads or starting endless ones about it's imagined failure. The box office numbers for Spidey 3 say that people were going back for multiple viewings, so they definitely enjoyed the film.
Pretty much

I enjoy all 4 Spider-Man movies, and admitted more than once disliking the full Spider-Man 3 movie during my first full viewing of the movie, and the second, then I enjoyed it cause what I hated about it is in all 3 movies, 4 counting the reboot

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Old 12-11-2013, 07:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

I see what's going on.

People are pretending SM3 is some underappreciated gem, despite the fact it craps on a few classic characters, to help preserve Raimi's legacy.

It's not going to work.

The film is always going one of the most disappointing films. Most people didn't see it multiple times. The movie had the worst legs of any Spider-man movie which means SM3 had a much bigger opening weekend than previous Spider-man movies but still made far less due to terrible word of mouth.

But this revisionism is cute. Please continue. Just like the prequel defenders your efforts will be in vain.

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Old 12-11-2013, 08:58 AM   #46
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

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I see what's going on.

People are pretending SM3 is some underappreciated gem, despite the fact it craps on a few classic characters, to help preserve Raimi's legacy.
Like who? It definitely doesn't do that to anyone of the main characters

Venom? Never been portrayed more accurately than this movie
Sandman? Are you going to hold on the uncle? Cause he got adapted faithfully besides that, like the fact he's a thug who went reformed. And plenty of characters in movies and animation are mergers of other characters in comics
Peter? Ross Gellar the whole trilogy
Spider-Man? He's Spider-Man
Gwen Stacy? She's Lee's version of MJ. Did Gwen ever know who Spider-Man is? She was a drama queen in comics. Reboot Gwen is a merger of Classic Gwen and Gwen clone from Ultimate comics
MJ? Nope
Harry? He's done more accurately than his dad, just like the DeMatties version of him
Jameson? Nope

The movie is not a gem, but it's definitely not the bad thing many panic over, so yes, it is quite underrated

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Old 12-11-2013, 09:27 AM   #47
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

I've never heard someone say SM3 is a good movie. Its not just fanboys.

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Old 12-11-2013, 09:41 AM   #48
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Like who? It definitely doesn't do that to anyone of the main characters

Venom? Never been portrayed more accurately than this movie
Sandman? Are you going to hold on the uncle? Cause he got adapted faithfully besides that, like the fact he's a thug who went reformed. And plenty of characters in movies and animation are mergers of other characters in comics
Peter? Ross Gellar the whole trilogy
Spider-Man? He's Spider-Man
Gwen Stacy? She's Lee's version of MJ. Did Gwen ever know who Spider-Man is? She was a drama queen in comics. Reboot Gwen is a merger of Classic Gwen and Gwen clone from Ultimate comics
MJ? Nope
Harry? He's done more accurately than his dad, just like the DeMatties version of him
Jameson? Nope

The movie is not a gem, but it's definitely not the bad thing many panic over, so yes, it is quite underrated
Venom has never been portrayed more accurately? Well he's rarely been portrayed at all but even the 90's cartoon was far more accurate. Raimi's Venom is just a skinny hissing monster, that doesn't scheme or intentionally torment Spider-man in the interest of both the symboite and the host, so what was the point?

Sandman may have been portrayed accurately but making him Uncle Ben's killer distorted the origin in a hacky attempt to connect Parker to every villain.

Merging and swapping Gwen Stacy characterization with MJ would be a terrible idea but that's not what Raimi did. He made Gwen a non-character just to give pointless lip service. Ditto for Capt. Stacy.

Green Goblin 2 was just James Franco on a glider. Terrible.

Mary Jane wasn't Peter Parker's rock, she was a sad sack in a forced and pointless love triangle.

and that leaves Peter Parker the mascara wearing, disco dancing, punchline that was supposed to be Parker dealing with a dark alien force. It's clear Raimi wanted to punish Venom fans since he was mad the producers told him to include the character. Too bad he punishes the entire audience and ruins his trilogy in the process.

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Old 12-11-2013, 09:53 AM   #49
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Sandman wasn't even portrayed accurately. In the comic books, he is a straight-up criminal, not a sympathetic human being.

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Old 12-11-2013, 09:54 AM   #50
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Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

I can say that now I'm over the disappointment that came with SM3, I can sit back and watch it and still get entertained. But I never thought that people would sit here defending it. Its fine if you like it because film is subjective, and in fact I'm happy to hear that people enjoy it. Though I'm not sure I care for people using it to attack TASM.

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