The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Spider-Man > Spider-Man 1, 2 & 3

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2013, 12:16 AM   #76
webhead731
I'm a photographer
 
webhead731's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Truth Is Out There
Posts: 16,403
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

God no.

__________________
Whatever life holds in store for me, I'll never forget these words: "With great power, comes great responsibility." This is my gift, my curse. Who am I? I'm Spider-Man.
Deviantart




webhead731 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 07:44 AM   #77
A Necessary Evil
#Fannibal
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,856
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldGoblin View Post
Since Avi Arad forced Raimi to have Venom in SM3,Raimi should of just made Harry Venom,where Harry gets the suit from Oscorp.Harry would of gotten his revenge,and the movie wouldn't of been so cluttered.


__________________
This is my design.

Raimi or not, it's absolutely hilarious how much Sony realizes they screwed the pooch.
A Necessary Evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #78
BagofHumilition
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Is it bad that out all three movies part 3 is my fav. :/

BagofHumilition is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #79
UltimateWebhead
Black's the new Red&Blue
 
UltimateWebhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 9,129
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BagofHumilition View Post
Is it bad that out all three movies part 3 is my fav. :/
Absolutely not. Don't feel bad about your opinion.

What are your reasons for liking it the best?

UltimateWebhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 10:29 AM   #80
BagofHumilition
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateWebhead View Post
Absolutely not. Don't feel bad about your opinion.

What are your reasons for liking it the best?
Well the main reason would be Black Suit Spidey, since I was a boy, always wanted to see Spidey on the big screen in his glorious Black Suit (Venom), so far Rami has been the only one to do this.

Also I can watch the movie over and over and not get bored with it, that's a big plus.

BagofHumilition is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #81
A Necessary Evil
#Fannibal
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,856
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BagofHumilition View Post
Is it bad that out all three movies part 3 is my fav. :/
Nah, you're opinion is yours. Some people like SM1 the most, os SM2/SM3. If it makes you feel better, I really like SM3.

__________________
This is my design.

Raimi or not, it's absolutely hilarious how much Sony realizes they screwed the pooch.
A Necessary Evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #82
Green Goblin
The Nostalga Strikes Back
 
Green Goblin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,125
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Another thread another flame war.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
There has been an awakening, have you felt it?
Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2013, 01:26 AM   #83
Senator Pleasury
Banned User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,846
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Many people are to be blamed. Sam Raimi is definitely one of the.

Senator Pleasury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2013, 05:22 AM   #84
Visualiza
What is a yout?
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 1,466
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
Another thread another flame war.
That's what happens when you title a thread with a leading question. You're as much at fault as anyone; it's not as if there aren't enough "SM3 sucks" threads around here anyway.

Visualiza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 04:36 AM   #85
TMC1982
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Based on what somebody wrote on the Amazing Spider-Man 2 IMDb message board a while back, it at the end of the day, falls on Sam Raimi's lap:
Quote:
I think it's funny that people are so quick to exempt Sam Raimi from an responsibility for Spider-Man 3, even though he's the damn director, and Spider-Man 3 is the only one he actually wrote. And sure, he didn't like Venom and didn't want to use him, but he instead wanted to make the film about his own sympathetic Sandman which is the worst part of this film. He's completely shallow with no depth, his relationship with his daughter is among the fakest i've ever seen, and most importantly, like he did in the 1st 2 films with the villains, Raimi has the incessant need to turn a non-sympathetic character into one. His motivation doesn't really come through, we don't really believe in it. It's incredibly forced, he takes up way too much of the film, and isn't interesting at all beyond visuals. This isn't even counting the Uncle Ben's killer retcon. The film would have easily improved with his exclusion.

From the opening dialogue (Peter narrating) you can already feel the mediocrity in the film. It's unnecessary, delivered in this very uninspired tone, which would follow with the most forced Stan Lee cameo, and only be a hint of the performances to come, a whole cast of people old and tired of the series, here for a paycheck. The whole film is a mess of conveniences, shallow over-drama, unbelievable dialogue, unrelated plotlines smashed forcibly together, Peter in tons of face-palming moments, and of course the same tired story structure already used in the 1st 2 films, recycled yet again. Always with a good guy turning bad, who happens to have a close connection with Peter, MJ is a drama queen that Peter for some reason is head over heels for, Aunt May is a plot device to get Peter out of a slump and not really a character, goes all Obi Wan on Peter and basically tells him "Use the force Luke!" (magical words of wisdom), MJ gets captured as the climax of the film, Peter gets his mask torn roughly half way off in the final fight, and the(a) villain kills himself.

Raimi may not have liked Venom, but Venom was hardly a surprise inclusion that he had to suddenly make do with. We see Raimi setting up the Venom plotline as early as Spider-Man 2. With the inclusion of John Jameson as an astronaut, telling us that he's going into space. If you couple this with the earliest teasers of Spider-Man 3 in which we see Peter watching a tv screen showing Jameson's shuttle crashing to earth, we know that they had planned on adapting this straight from how the 90's animated series introduced the symbiote, and of course by extension, Venom.

It's always "It was because that greedy hack Avi Arad forced Sam Raimi to use Venom, that killed the movie!" First, I wonder how much of you actually know who Avi Arad is. If you did some research you'd learn that he's one of the key individuals responsible for pushing to get Marvel into the film industry at all. Simply, studios didn't have much interest in doing comicbook films anymore, and Arad was one of the major people that got Marvel back on the map through film when they were going bankrupt, establishing the mainstream superhero films we have today. Note, he's also doing the same to get good video game films out there, ones not directed by Paul W S Anderson and Uwe Boll.

Film productions are a team effort people. Sure, Sony may have stepped in too much, but Raimi had a huge part in it as well. You could you tell their heart wasn't in it anymore, the cast was tired of it, Raimi wanted to move on to other things.

So to say Venom is why Spider-Man 3 sucked? Do you forget that he only had about 10 minutes of screen time if that, basically tacked on at the end? Surely, Venom was executed poorly, but he is far from the films greatest faults. He just pops up in the end like a cherry on top to the whole ordeal. Was the film not already a ***** sundae up to that point? Your telling me that it's the last 10 minutes that killed it?

And perhaps i'm exaggerating how bad SM3 was, as I still like it, if only for the action sequences, but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from. And that's this. Spider-Man 3's problems are rooted much deeper than Venom, and too many villains. It's at it's core, down to the writing which is the worst example of the faults of the previous films, delivered by a team who lost the drive to do it after Spider-Man 2. It isn't just Sony's fault, or big bad Arad. Raimi, and all of the cast had a major role in it as well.

TASM2 won't fail because it has 3 villains. It's all in the writing and delivery. That's what determines whether this becomes another Spider-Man 3/Batman and Robin, or a Batman Begins/TDK.

Let's not pretend that Spider-Man 4 (an uninspired sequel by a team long over it a long time ago) would be some how any less of a cash grab/ made to keep the rights with Sony than many claim TASM to be. Sony is a business, and of course they are going to do what's in their best interest. It's not like Fox, Marvel Studios are somehow any different in that respect.

But TASM offers a different look at Spider-Man, one that I've personally waited for, never feeling truly satisfied with the depiction of the character/universe in the Raimi films. And in between starting a new story and twiddling their thumbs trying to somehow make something of a 4th film in the original series, I feel Sony definitely made the right call.

TMC1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 10:23 AM   #86
Picard Sisko
Prepare to be Assimilated
 
Picard Sisko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17,948
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

That post is fantastic. Thank you for that.

Every time I hear someone saying that TASM2 is going to be like SM3 because it has 3 villains, or "too much going on," I cringe. And people have to stop trashing Avi Arad so much.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
Avatar by SpideyK.
Picard Sisko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 01:06 PM   #87
Venom75
I'm symbiotic!
 
Venom75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pittsburgh,Pa.
Posts: 1,769
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

That was a great post. I've always thought that by the time Spider-man 3 was in production,Raimi was a bit "Spidey'ed-out." From the time he started making the original up untill the release of part 3,Sam probably did nothing but eat,sleep and breath the Spider-man films. You could tell that he needed a break.
Plus,let's not forget,I think it was,Laura Ziskin who wanted Gwen Stacy in part 3 as well. It was clearly a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. But at the end of the day I still enjoyed part 3,mainly because of Venom and the symbiote.

__________________
-I'm a Freddy Krueger,Spider-man and Venom(the Eddie Brock version) FANATIC!

Official fan of The Raimi Spider-man Trilogy 2002-2007

Never Forget 9/11/01
Venom75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 01:50 PM   #88
Senator Pleasury
Banned User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,846
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Too many cooks in the kitchen. That led to too many twists in the kitchen.

Senator Pleasury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 02:42 PM   #89
henzINNIT
Side-Kick
 
henzINNIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,877
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC1982 View Post
Based on what somebody wrote on the Amazing Spider-Man 2 IMDb message board a while back, it at the end of the day, falls on Sam Raimi's lap:
Meh, that post misses the point of "Venom killed SM3". The damage of his inclusion isn't contained solely within his scenes, it was an addition that splintered and already formed story.

While Raimi is not immune from responsibility, people under-estimate just what a ridiculous bind he was in. Kingsley was already cast as Vulture before the character was pried away from Raimi's fingers. It's impressive that he managed to cobble together anything coherent at all with that cluster**** of a production.

henzINNIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 03:51 PM   #90
XtremelyBaneful
...it would be, for you.
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 3,374
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

here are the problems I have with sm3 when I first saw it (which was on a plane)

-organic web shooters, but that's a gripe I have with this whole series.
-there is absolutely NO HINT of a spidey sense in this film. it's like he lost it.
-goblin didn't have a proper mask.
-the plot of the whole film was pretty much a love triangle.
-not much depth to the symbiote.
-the symbiote suit is like, friggin exactly the same as the spider suit, just black.
-as picard sisko pointed out, trying to sympathize with sandman
-sandman just inherits extra powers from dust that he doesn't have in the comics
-the whole emo thing that i shouldn't have to get into.
-peter crying... too much
-too many cops scenes, this might be me nitpicky but I felt like too often I saw cops in this movie
-the guy from that 70s show playing eddie brock
-venom butchered. omg...

the last two are interchangeable going hand in hand and are the nails in the coffin for me. not only was venom only like 15 minutes of the movie, we never even hear the name venom, only fanboys like us know the name and for someone who knows nothing about spiderman except the movies technically would either have to wait till the credits or ask someone next to him wat the name of that villain was.

but damn... venom was always my favorite spiderman character, and if I understand correctly, sam raimi did not want to use him in sm3 because he didn't like venom for being a "shallow character"... well no ****, he's a ****ing villain, one of spidey's most famous, dammit!

but sony makes him use venom anyway, and instead of doing the character justice, he decides to disregard and push the character around in some of the worst ways, resulting in that movie, just because he didn't like the character.

so who's to blame? sam raimi first and foremost. writers also.

__________________
http://www.glamour.com/entertainment...-of-everything
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/2...-girls-bodies/
http://www.danoah.com/2010/09/you-ju...our-child.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post

the very name "Xbox One" = the original Xbox.
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 06:26 PM   #91
Venom75
I'm symbiotic!
 
Venom75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pittsburgh,Pa.
Posts: 1,769
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post

but damn... venom was always my favorite spiderman character, and if I understand correctly, sam raimi did not want to use him in sm3 because he didn't like venom for being a "shallow character"... well no ****, he's a ****ing villain, one of spidey's most famous, dammit!

but sony makes him use venom anyway, and instead of doing the character justice, he decides to disregard and push the character around in some of the worst ways, resulting in that movie, just because he didn't like the character.

so who's to blame? sam raimi first and foremost. writers also.
I've always suspected that Venom was butchered mainly because of Raimi's dislike of the character. I mean,maybe he didn't go out his way to ruin Venom/symbiote,but since he never really cared much for him Sam probably figured,"Oh,I'll just throw him in there at the end and that will be it. I'm not going to put much time in on his powers,motivations;etc..." Yes,I know the film was crowded already,but I don't think an extra 5-10 minutes would've hurt the film. Esp. if those 10 minutes showed a bit more of the symbiote's influence on both Spider-man and Brock,Venom fighting/stalking Spider-man or going a little deeper with Brock's character,feelings and motivations. Then,the ultimate insult was killing both Eddie and the symbiote at the end. Making sure that if more Spider-man films were made under Raimi,that Venom would never been seen again. Venom(along with Bane in Batman and Robin)remains one of the most shafted characters in a comic book movie ever. At least Bane got a second chance in DKR. Hopefully,this new series will give Venom that second chance.

__________________
-I'm a Freddy Krueger,Spider-man and Venom(the Eddie Brock version) FANATIC!

Official fan of The Raimi Spider-man Trilogy 2002-2007

Never Forget 9/11/01
Venom75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 06:41 PM   #92
XtremelyBaneful
...it would be, for you.
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 3,374
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom75 View Post
I've always suspected that Venom was butchered mainly because of Raimi's dislike of the character. I mean,maybe he didn't go out his way to ruin Venom/symbiote,but since he never really cared much for him Sam probably figured,"Oh,I'll just throw him in there at the end and that will be it. I'm not going to put much time in on his powers,motivations;etc..." Yes,I know the film was crowded already,but I don't think an extra 5-10 minutes would've hurt the film. Esp. if those 10 minutes showed a bit more of the symbiote's influence on both Spider-man and Brock,Venom fighting/stalking Spider-man or going a little deeper with Brock's character,feelings and motivations. Then,the ultimate insult was killing both Eddie and the symbiote at the end. Making sure that if more Spider-man films were made under Raimi,that Venom would never been seen again. Venom(along with Bane in Batman and Robin)remains one of the most shafted characters in a comic book movie ever. At least Bane got a second chance in DKR. Hopefully,this new series will give Venom that second chance.
exactly. so **** raimi for ruining venom in this film and I do believe they will do venom justice in the asm series.

bane was better in dkr but still not as good as he could have been imo.

__________________
http://www.glamour.com/entertainment...-of-everything
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/2...-girls-bodies/
http://www.danoah.com/2010/09/you-ju...our-child.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post

the very name "Xbox One" = the original Xbox.
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 05:05 PM   #93
Hail_Hydra
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 12
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BagofHumilition View Post
Is it bad that out all three movies part 3 is my fav. :/
it's my second favorite of the trilogy, so i would say that that's not a bad thing at all

Hail_Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 09:13 AM   #94
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 37,990
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
exactly. so **** raimi for ruining venom in this film and I do believe they will do venom justice in the asm series.
Raimi improved Venom. He gave Venom one thing the comics never did: A decent motivation for hating Spider-Man. An actual connection between the two characters before they become enemies.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 10:14 AM   #95
A Necessary Evil
#Fannibal
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,856
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Raimi improved Venom. He gave Venom one thing the comics never did: A decent motivation for hating Spider-Man. An actual connection between the two characters before they become enemies.
For sure. Eddie Brock had literally no reason at all to hate Spider-Man, and nobody even made one attempt to retcon this in the comic books. Raimi realized this, made them rivals for the same job, threw Eddie into crazy territory (being over infatuated with Gwen when she had no interest in him), and this time made Peter completely responsible for his demons.

__________________
This is my design.

Raimi or not, it's absolutely hilarious how much Sony realizes they screwed the pooch.
A Necessary Evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 11:33 AM   #96
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 37,990
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Yeah I'd like to see someone make a case that shows Venom's motive to hate Spider-Man in the comics is better than the movie. All the other versions of the character made Peter and Eddie know each other before they became enemies.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 11:35 AM   #97
A Necessary Evil
#Fannibal
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,856
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Agreed. Even freakin' Ultimate Spider-Man established Peter and Eddie having a relationship prior to the symbiote.

__________________
This is my design.

Raimi or not, it's absolutely hilarious how much Sony realizes they screwed the pooch.
A Necessary Evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 01:50 PM   #98
Hail_Hydra
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 12
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

which had the better motivation do you think?

Spider-Man 3

or The Spectacular Spider-Man

Hail_Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 02:38 PM   #99
Picard Sisko
Prepare to be Assimilated
 
Picard Sisko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17,948
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

Spectacular Spider-Man by far.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
Avatar by SpideyK.
Picard Sisko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 02:57 PM   #100
Green Goblin
The Nostalga Strikes Back
 
Green Goblin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,125
Default Re: Who is to blame for Spider-Man 3?

I've seen a few posters here e.g Shik say that Raimi only had to include the suit.

Is there any links?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
There has been an awakening, have you felt it?
Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.