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View Poll Results: What is the bar of success for Superman/ Batman at the WW box office?
$600- 699 M (The level at which a $200 M film profits) 2 2.44%
$700-799 M 6 7.32%
$800-899 M 13 15.85%
$900-999 M 8 9.76%
Over $1 Billion 27 32.93%
Bigger Than The Dark Knight Rises (Highest grossing DC film) 12 14.63%
Bigger Than The Avengers (Biggest Superhero movie ever) 13 15.85%
Bigger Than Titanic (#2 film ever) 1 1.22%
Bigger Than Avatar (#1 film ever) 0 0%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #151
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

The Fitzgerald quote makes me want to like ya slumcat... But we get it... MOS was an offensive abomination in your eyes.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:27 PM   #152
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Yes I get the math. The same math dictates that if the film costs a whole dollar less in investment, it earns an entire dollar more in profit(see). The issue is just how relevant is one entire dollar?
My observation is 75 isn't all that big a figure in the grand scheme of world wide hauls.
It's the difference between a film grossing 115ww and 190ww.

A figure like 200 seems more 'relevant' no?
As for your figure on MOS' profit, it seemingly excludes the promotional tie ins and dvd sales...then again most of these calculations do so it's at least consistent.
I think even Bill Gates would not deem 75 million an insignificant amount, let alone money hungry Hollywood studios who are out to squeeze every dollar they can.

Film making ain't community service. It is a business and every dollar counts let alone seventy five million dollars.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:28 PM   #153
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
The Fitzgerald quote makes me want to like ya slumcat...
You are not obliged to. It doesn't matter one way or another.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #154
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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You are not obliged to. It doesn't matter one way or another.
Got it. Nihilism.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #155
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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I think even Bill Gates would not deem 75 million an insignificant amount, let alone money hungry Hollywood studios who are out to squeeze every dollar they can.

Film making ain't community service. It is a business and every dollar counts let alone seventy five million dollars.
In an age where 660 is considered a moderate success by many a mal content, I find that hard to completely accept.

Your words were along the lines of a "much bigger success than it is today"
I suppose that's all relative. For I have little doubt it's lack of perceived mega success stems from it's budget.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:37 PM   #156
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Man Of Steel with not even a A lister in the lead role and being the first film in the franchise cost more than Avengers which was the 5th film in a franchise and chock-a-block with A listers in lead roles.
Russell Crowe and Amy Adams are either more successful and/or had more screen time than the so-called "A-listers" in The Avengers.

Diane Lane and Kevin Costner are also as or more successful, though they had less screen time.

Finally, I somehow doubt Michael Shannon is less expensive than Tom Hiddleston.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:40 PM   #157
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Got it. Nihilism.
Lol. I didn't mean it as nihilism. I simply meant it as I don't care.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:43 PM   #158
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Lol. I didn't mean it as nihilism. I simply meant it as I don't care.
Ah... Randian styled Objectivism then.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:50 PM   #159
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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In an age where 660 is considered a moderate success by many a mal content, I find that hard to completely accept.

Your words were along the lines of a "much bigger success than it is today"
I suppose that's all relative. For I have little doubt it's lack of perceived mega success stems from it's budget.
Well essentially with my equation, you technically get two dollars more for budget one dollar less. Though it presupposes the gross to be constant irrespective of the budget for the sake calculation.

But I have read box office articles which claim that as admirable as 660 is a figure, its impressiveness is undercut by the massive investment.

Consequently, 660 would have been more impressive with a lesser budget.

Conjuring has I think 200-300 million dollars on a 15-20 million dollar budget. Effectively 10 times is budget which makes it an enormous success.

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:52 PM   #160
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Ah... Randian styled Objectivism then.
Hah. I haven't read Rand. Have heard only bad things about it from my friends.

Dostoevsky is more up my speed.

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Old 12-19-2013, 04:19 AM   #161
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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$350 million is actually a lot for a production budget, but since Batman is in this picture, I believe they could easily get away with spending that much and still making a profit.
Does that include marketing because **** me that's alot

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Old 12-19-2013, 04:26 AM   #162
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Well, it seems like you can't make a decent Superman film nowadays for less than $225 million ("Superman Returns" was produced for $209 million, while "Man of Steel" was done for $225) and if you want to do Batman any justice and give him a significant part in the film you will need to add on probably another $100 to $150 million, so it wouldn't surprise me if the budget were as high as $350 million. The thing is that you will easily get your money back since even the worst Batman film will make over $240 million and a disappointing Superman film will still make $400. You should break even in that case.
It's a question of time spent on developing the movie.
Of course stuff like actors salaries and VFX shots as well location shootss etc requite alot of money however if the production of a movie isn't "rushed" in the sense that stuff isn't changed constantly even during the shoot and post-prod. they actually take their time with post. prod. , the cost can be lowered significantly.
Look Gravity. The movie is basically one giant VFX shot and they shot the movie in 2011. A full two years before the movie came out. Budget : 100 million.

Given the massive VFX shots , the budget will rise to more then 200 million though i think with carefull planning they can control the budget.

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Old 12-19-2013, 07:18 AM   #163
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I can see the budget being about $230-235 million. Not that much bigger than MOS.

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Old 12-19-2013, 09:10 AM   #164
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Does that include marketing suggesting that the spend **** me that's alot
No, I just meant production. Yes, it's a lot and am not suggesting that they spend that much on the picture, but rather I was trying to point out that the sensation of Batman and Superman together in a motion picture is enough to overcome a budget that size if it were to occur. Just for the record the film Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End cost $300 million to produce, but still made a big profit at the box office because it was Johnny Depp in a pirate movie.

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Old 12-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #165
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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No, I just meant production. Yes, it's a lot and am not suggesting that they spend that much on the picture, but rather I was trying to point out that the sensation of Batman and Superman together in a motion picture is enough to overcome a budget that size if it were to occur. Just for the record the film Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End cost $300 million to produce, but still made a big profit at the box office because it was Johnny Depp in a pirate movie.
True but the budget increase was due to the fact that Disney needed to get the movie out ON time and everyone was basically working overtime.
Had the movie been pushed back i do hink the budget would've been quite lower.
But i do get what you are saying.
Personally i have my reservations that WB is going to spend that much on a Batman vs Superman movie.
Ever Avngers didn't cost that much and that had more then 2 famous CB characters. With the sequel i can see Avengers 2 costing 300 million but there is a big chance that they can recoup their costs.
It's a big risk for WB to spend 300 million IMO. 'For me i think it's a "wait and see" game.

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Old 12-19-2013, 11:36 AM   #166
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Just for the record the film Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End cost $300 million to produce, but still made a big profit at the box office because it was Johnny Depp in a pirate movie.
I have to believe a significant chunk of that went to Depp's salary....lol.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:29 AM   #167
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

If this movie manages to slide over the 1B mark and people are disappointed I'm going to lose faith in humanity...

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Old 12-20-2013, 08:42 AM   #168
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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If this movie manages to slide over the 1B mark and people are disappointed I'm going to lose faith in humanity...
1. if it makes the same as the last two bat films, people will find grounds to proclaim their disappointment(domestically or otherwise). Simply hitting 1Bill won't be enough inspite of context, such as this still having huge reboot elements.
MoS coming off of a history of crap, being a reboot and making more than any pre(and some) post avengers films, whilst matching asm, did nothing for that films financial appreciation in context for it was supposed to be 'the big nolan superman film'
just saying, that number won't be enough for everyone.

2. if IM3 the solo blist character can make 1.3, that will be the bar for this film, regardless.

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #169
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

They aren't going to spend $300+ million on the production of this film. I expect the budget to be $225-250m. In terms of box office expectations, I would think most people expect it to at least reach $1 billion worldwide.

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:21 PM   #170
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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They aren't going to spend $300+ million on the production of this film. I expect the budget to be $225-250m. In terms of box office expectations, I would think most people expect it to at least reach $1 billion worldwide.
I wonder what some of these folks would predict that JLA budget as.

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Old 12-20-2013, 03:45 PM   #171
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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I don't understand the logic here. You say it's rightfully a huge disappointment if it doesn't reach 1B, then go on to say it won't be considered a success if it doesn't get close to 1.5B...

So hypothetically if the movie makes 1.1B, it's not technically a huge disappointment, yet not a success either? You're in for a rude awakening my friend... Just like the 1B-1.5B MOS predictors were. The movie did around 660M and it was still considered successful.

But for real, was this post sarcasm? Please tell me it was...
The logic is quite simple.

The reason why WB decided to move forward with a Batman/Superman film (now a Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman film which is oddly shaping up as a Justice League 0 film) instead of a straight forward sequel to Man Of Steel is because they need a hit able to play (box-office wise) in the same league as The Avengers and while MoS numbers are strong (but probably in the lower range of their estimates) Superman isn't yet capable of competing against Marvel's juggernaut (or even against a solo Iron Man flick). They need a franchise able to produce billion dollar hits to replace Harry Potter and given that there is no genre trending higher today they decided to move forward with the biggest thing they could think of.

They are likely to spend a huge amount on this film and given that their former president already expected MoS to be the highest grossing film ever for the studio you can bet that they expect more than just a return on their investment. That doesn't mean that movie won't break even unless it makes 1 billion or more, it just means that they cannot reasonnably expect their first DC crossover, following a film which grossed higher than any Marvel film prior to The Avengers, featuring two of the most iconic characters ever, which will probably be one of the studios most expensive film ever, to gross less than the last Batman flick. It's a simple as that.

Batman/Superman or whatever the film is called needs to be a financial milestone for studio for a lot of reasons. That doesn't mean they necessarely need a record breaking film, but they need numbers to get back in the game because business wise the competition is kicking their ass even though WB probably has the strongest properties to work on.

Hence the idea that, even if it doesn't beat The Avengers (which I do agree is unlikely at this point), it needs to come close to its numbers.

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Old 12-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #172
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Superman was never supposed to compete against "marvels juggernaunt" Both of WB's batman hits couldn't even do that(not even TDK's domestic). Superman does however compete with Ironman(and all the rest). MoS surpassed the first 2 IM's World Wide figures and his sequel no doubt would have as well.

After Joss Whedon things changed when it come to the perception of marvel's success and track record. That being said, coming out of the mega zeitgeist event, the Ironman brand(due in part to him starring in avengers) was red hot and I suspect coming out of of this thing the MOS2 numbers will be in a real place compete.

The shrewdest part of this move by wb comes when you look at what avengers did for all things marvel. I take a moment to imagine how hotly anticipated Guardians(of all things) and Cap2 are, or even thor2 and IM3(coming off of 2) would have been...
If WB can create that sort of mega momentum for their brand with an successful event film, then not only will a wondy film be buzzy, not only will affleck have a running start, not only will the next chapter in mos be IM3 level overhyped but they might....might even be able to start talking about green lantern again.

A successful traditional MOS2 wouldn't have done that. The sooner this film happens the sooner WB can really start moving all the pieces. Momentum goes along way.

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Old 12-20-2013, 05:02 PM   #173
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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I have to believe a significant chunk of that went to Depp's salary....lol.
But they didn't spend that much on POTC4 though.

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Old 12-20-2013, 05:07 PM   #174
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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True but the budget increase was due to the fact that Disney needed to get the movie out ON time and everyone was basically working overtime.
Had the movie been pushed back i do hink the budget would've been quite lower.
But i do get what you are saying.
Personally i have my reservations that WB is going to spend that much on a Batman vs Superman movie.
Ever Avngers didn't cost that much and that had more then 2 famous CB characters. With the sequel i can see Avengers 2 costing 300 million but there is a big chance that they can recoup their costs.
It's a big risk for WB to spend 300 million IMO. 'For me i think it's a "wait and see" game.
True, but that excuse has nothing to do with the fact that the film still made a profit in spite of the $300 million price tag. It was actually the sensation of the Pirates franchise and Johnny Depp that got it over the barrel and you could probably hedge on the sensation of Batman and Superman together in a film for the first time as being the reason that film would get over should the budget be that high.

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Old 12-20-2013, 05:15 PM   #175
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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But they didn't spend that much on POTC4 though.
I hadn't thought of that. Wow...that's crazy. I don't remember seeing 300 million of FX, or at least not what I would expect to see for that amount of money. There were definitely some cool things, but 300 million...DAYUM.

I sincerely hope MOS2's budget is not that large. I for one think don't think they need that much money to make a great Superman film, even one that includes Batman. If they were able to do MOS for less than that I hope the budget is only increased a bit.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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