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Old 01-03-2014, 08:14 PM   #51
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

Wait, isn't that the whole Iron Metropolitan story, that Tony has a brother we never saw?

But I digress. I'd like to see Shuri in the supporting cast at some point, maybe not in the first one, maybe in the first movie, she's on her walkabout. I think for an origin film, Monica Lynne, Ramonda and the Dora Milaje will add plenty enough depth to the female side of things.

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Old 01-03-2014, 08:36 PM   #52
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Wait, isn't that the whole Iron Metropolitan story, that Tony has a brother we never saw?

But I digress. I'd like to see Shuri in the supporting cast at some point, maybe not in the first one, maybe in the first movie, she's on her walkabout. I think for an origin film, Monica Lynne, Ramonda and the Dora Milaje will add plenty enough depth to the female side of things.
Was it a long lost brother that Tony never knew about? If that's the case it could make sense in story line, but Shuri just showed up like she was there the whole time. If it turned out that Shuri was a sister that had been kidnapped by Klaw, or sent off into America as a secret agent for years, it wouldn't bother me so much. But she just showed up one day like it was nothing.

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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If M'Baku is used at all, it would make sense to at least touch on the gorilla god, Ghekre.

I agree that the pagan angle shouldn't be a problem, but when Marvel does their normal song and dance about how hard BP is to adapt and considering how super pc they played Mandarin to avoid offending Asian markets, I just think it's an element of Panther they won't want to delve into as to reach the broadest possible audience, since the idea of an African superhero with a tech savvy country is supposedly a 'hard sell' in and of itself.
Yeah, a line about the "white Gorilla god" makes sense, I agree. I don't think including too many new vocabulary words will be necessary though.

PC could be a very big problem though, I agree. And I do agree with them that a tech savvy African country is very much a hard sell, just as an Asian country full of Hispanic folks, or a multibillion dollar international paperclip corporation or anything else that doesn't line up snugly with people's perception of real life. The problem then comes in that people's perception of real Africa isn't at all PC... so how can you satisfy both audience expectation and the mythos at once?

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Was it a long lost brother that Tony never knew about? If that's the case it could make sense in story line, but Shuri just showed up like she was there the whole time. If it turned out that Shuri was a sister that had been kidnapped by Klaw, or sent off into America as a secret agent for years, it wouldn't bother me so much. But she just showed up one day like it was nothing.
Ha, true, true. She definitely needed (needs?) a more prolific backstory.

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Old 01-03-2014, 11:17 PM   #55
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Yeah, a line about the "white Gorilla god" makes sense, I agree. I don't think including too many new vocabulary words will be necessary though.

PC could be a very big problem though, I agree. And I do agree with them that a tech savvy African country is very much a hard sell, just as an Asian country full of Hispanic folks, or a multibillion dollar international paperclip corporation or anything else that doesn't line up snugly with people's perception of real life. The problem then comes in that people's perception of real Africa isn't at all PC... so how can you satisfy both audience expectation and the mythos at once?
Another issue is finding location to shoot the movie. Common sense thinking would be "why not shoot the movie in South Africa?" That could be an issue.

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Old 01-04-2014, 12:32 AM   #56
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I don't think that's really a challenge. South Africa is more than capable of standing in for Wakanda. As you probably know, we've mentioned Sun City Africa as a great place in previous iterations of the thread. Plus, South Africa is crazy cheap to shoot in.

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Old 01-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #57
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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I don't think that's really a challenge. South Africa is more than capable of standing in for Wakanda. As you probably know, we've mentioned Sun City Africa as a great place in previous iterations of the thread. Plus, South Africa is crazy cheap to shoot in.
It's an issue in terms of demographics. I believe Wakanda is close to 100% black. South Africa has a large white minority, so would Marvel only shoot in the Black parts of Cape Town and Johannesburg? Or would they double Cape Town and Johannesburg for London or New York?

Does South Africa even have a studio big enough for such a film as this? That could easily fix the problem.

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Old 01-04-2014, 01:09 AM   #58
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

Yes to all of the above. Get a bunch of black extras and shoot wherever you want for important street-level shots, and Cape Town Studios has sound stages, among other things, large enough for whatever you could possibly desire. There's a reason Chronicle, Dredd, Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom and more have had no extra limitations, but the contrary.

If Marvel gives Black Panther the same $140M budget it gives everything else it'll come out looking like Avatar or Pirates of the Caribbean in South Africa.

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Old 01-04-2014, 01:29 AM   #59
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Yes to all of the above. Get a bunch of black extras and shoot wherever you want for important street-level shots, and Cape Town Studios has sound stages, among other things, large enough for whatever you could possibly desire. There's a reason Chronicle, Dredd, Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom and more have had no extra limitations, but the contrary.

If Marvel gives Black Panther the same $140M budget it gives everything else it'll come out looking like Avatar or Pirates of the Caribbean in South Africa.
That's good to know. A key clue on whether or not this film gets done is how often Vibranium is mentioned in Cap 2. By Cap 2, we may know if this film is announced.

I think the hardest sell of the film is "an all black cast" aspect.

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Old 01-04-2014, 09:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

Which is why Everett Ross will have to be a main character, unfortunately. Great character, but its sad that he has to be there. Or Kevin Trublood, lol. A lot of "black" movies have thrown in a crucial white supporting cast member. "my devices" Brian from Best Man Holiday, the happily married man and gab union's guy from Think Like A Man, the wedding planner in Jumping the Broom, Cyclops in Death at a Funeral. Michael Bluth in Hancock, Whistler in Blade.

Contrast with the Tyler Perry movies, After Earth (which actually was good, imo).

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Old 01-04-2014, 12:25 PM   #61
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Which is why Everett Ross will have to be a main character, unfortunately. Great character, but its sad that he has to be there. Or Kevin Trublood, lol. A lot of "black" movies have thrown in a crucial white supporting cast member. "my devices" Brian from Best Man Holiday, the happily married man and gab union's guy from Think Like A Man, the wedding planner in Jumping the Broom, Cyclops in Death at a Funeral. Michael Bluth in Hancock, Whistler in Blade.

Contrast with the Tyler Perry movies, After Earth (which actually was good, imo).
Didn't Hancock also have Charlize Theron?

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Old 01-04-2014, 07:55 PM   #62
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

True indeed. Not much of a "black" movie that, maybe not the best example. Same with Blade, plenty people of all races. The nearly-all black movies were all comedies, really. We haven't had an all black action movie of any stripe, at least, none that I can remember.

Upon researching I suddenly recall one Django! And then I remembered another: Red Tails.

But then again that does kinda evoke my point between a mostly black cast and an all black cast.

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Old 01-04-2014, 09:35 PM   #63
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Which is why Everett Ross will have to be a main character
Can we sub out Ross and sub in Agent Clint Barton aka Hawkeye instead? (Or put Ross in an as some kind of rookie who is subordinate to Barton)

Using an underutilized character audiences already have exposure to kills two birds with one stone namely:
-the lack of important white male characters in the BP movie
-the lack of Hawkeye screen time in the MCU

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Old 01-05-2014, 04:40 AM   #64
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

That would be super duper clean. Nice call. I liked Hawkeye and Black Panther's friendship on the Avengers EMH Cartoon.

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Old 01-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #65
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Can we sub out Ross and sub in Agent Clint Barton aka Hawkeye instead? (Or put Ross in an as some kind of rookie who is subordinate to Barton)

Using an underutilized character audiences already have exposure to kills two birds with one stone namely:
-the lack of important white male characters in the BP movie
-the lack of Hawkeye screen time in the MCU
Wow, I think this is a great idea! Points to you!!

Hawkeye would seem less like a "token white guy" because we already know him, and (as you said) it would help his character get some much needed development. His role could be like Black Widow in Cap 2, or even in Iron Man 2, in size. I know Whedon said Hawkeye is getting more screen time in A:AoU, but he has said that about everyone other than Thor so I don't see how that's possible. (Thor, on the other hand, Whedon wants to trade with Star Wars in return for the Ewok song...)

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Old 01-05-2014, 10:44 AM   #66
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

im hoping they don't do an "Americanized" panther, or do the whole "american black guy discovers he is actually African royalty"

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Old 01-05-2014, 12:04 PM   #67
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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"american black guy discovers he is actually African royalty"
They can have T'Challa go to Oxford like in the comics or Yale and other Ivy league schools but I hope he remains African born and raised with a African accented English speaking accent. No urban street slang talking stuff either.

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Old 01-05-2014, 12:08 PM   #68
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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im hoping they don't do an "Americanized" panther, or do the whole "american black guy discovers he is actually African royalty"
I don't see them going this way.

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Old 01-05-2014, 12:28 PM   #69
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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They can have T'Challa go to Oxford like in the comics or Yale and other Ivy league schools but I hope he remains African born and raised with a African accented English speaking accent. No urban street slang talking stuff either.
One of the key elements to the Panther is that he's AFRICAN and not African-American, so I see no reason to give him any ties to the US at all.

It would be nice if he never set foot in the US in his first movie - just to drive home the point that he's on a world stage and such.

Come to think of it, the new THOR does not have any US sequences in it either [just that pointless "is that suppose to make them like us" crap], so good for them...unless I am forgetting something...

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Old 01-05-2014, 12:53 PM   #70
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Upon researching I suddenly recall one Django! And then I remembered another: Red Tails.

But then again that does kinda evoke my point between a mostly black cast and an all black cast.
Neither of those movies has an all black cast.

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Old 01-05-2014, 01:01 PM   #71
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

The New Thor movies is a sequel to the first Thor movie which has extensive US sequences. It would have been a mistake for them to have Thor not come to Earth "to drive home the point that he's on the cosmic stage" in the first film. Connect your character to the audience in as many ways as possible, and the audience will have something emotional to respond to, whether what you're doing is "pointless" or not. If you give your audience a point, all you may get back is a counterpoint.

I think him finding out he's African would be too far, but having Panther on his walkabout in the United States is totally legit, imho.

On Hawkeye, he'd be a sidekick of the movie. Something like Widow+Rhodey in IM2 or Widow+Falcon in Cap 2. He'd probably need to be that guy. He wouldn't have much of a journey or character arc, but he'd be getting down in the final action sequence just as thoroughly as Black Panther. It'd be fun to see some of the crazy new trick shots he'd be pulling, to say nothing of Wakanda's Vibranium powered trick arrows.

Hawkeye would basically end up being a sort of Ross(representing The West in an official capacity)/Trublood(Adventurer in his own right) fusion. Could be kinda awesome. The temptation, depending on the writer, would be to make him the focus character and give him the arc instead of Black Panther. That would be a grievous mistake, and a disservice to the property.

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Neither of those movies has an all black cast.
True. That's was incorrect of me. I was trying to get at the idea that the inclusion of white actors in the main/billed cast as an ally and as villains is necessary pandering to the audience. Does that make more sense?

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Old 01-05-2014, 01:48 PM   #72
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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That would be super duper clean. Nice call. I liked Hawkeye and Black Panther's friendship on the Avengers EMH Cartoon.
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Wow, I think this is a great idea! Points to you!!
Hawkeye would seem less like a "token white guy" because we already know him, and (as you said) it would help his character get some much needed development. His role could be like Black Widow in Cap 2, or even in Iron Man 2, in size.
Thanks guys! I've been thinking about that call for awhile

Let's talk costumes, has anyone come across a design/redesign that they feel might make for a good starting point for a live action BP costume? I loved the Ultimates 2 Cap America costume which as most of you know largely inspired the CA:TFA costume(Which is now my favorite) i don't have any such attachments to any BP costumes I've seen






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Old 01-05-2014, 02:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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Hawkeye would basically end up being a sort of Ross(representing The West in an official capacity)/Trublood(Adventurer in his own right) fusion. Could be kinda awesome. The temptation, depending on the writer, would be to make him the focus character and give him the arc instead of Black Panther. That would be a grievous mistake, and a disservice to the property.
Agreed, but perhaps give him a sub plot related to gathering intel on the foreign benefactor of M'baku's coup

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Old 01-05-2014, 04:55 PM   #74
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

Yeah, he'd definitely have his own angle/goal, but he wouldn't have a story arc and personal growth and all that. His story arc would basically be "Black Panther is an arrogant kid" to "Black Panther is one bad ass mother fluffer."

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Old 01-05-2014, 05:40 PM   #75
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I think a good way to have Black Panther in America is to have him at a UN hearing when some of Klaw's henchmen attack. That way he's in America for a valid reason, but it doesn't demean Wakanda. Or he could be gathering intel like someone else said. A head of state has plenty of reasons to show up in another country. The key is just making sure that follow ups aren't him in America all the time because they're scared of showing Wakanda too much.

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