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Old 12-25-2013, 12:28 AM   #76
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I agree. He wasn't expecting it and was too shocked to react. Superman may be incredibly strong, but he still weighs the same as an ordinary man. Theoretically speaking, Batman is very much capable of tossing him across the room. A normal man was able to tackle Clark in MOS, so it's not out of the question.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:30 AM   #77
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

One thing I do notice about these team ups, is that they tend to really tone down Superman's intelligence. I hope they don't do that.

I would be fine with an intellectual brawl, since they would actually be on equal footing.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:38 AM   #78
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I think their complaint is that Superman's reaction time should be much higher than a human's. Batman would be physically capable of throwing Superman if Superman was dead weight that didn't react, but he shouldn't be able to since Superman would react and see what was happening like a nano-second after Batman grabbed his arm. If Superman can catch a bullet without being prepared for the shot, he can stop a hip toss.

But now I feel dumb for bothering to write all that, since it's not really all that important. Let Batman throw all the takedowns he wants. Then Batman can exploit Superman's lack of a ground game. I won't be satisfied unless there's at least one triangle choke in the fight.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:39 AM   #79
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
I agree. He wasn't expecting it and was too shocked to react. Superman may be incredibly strong, but he still weighs the same as an ordinary man. Theoretically speaking, Batman is very much capable of tossing him across the room. A normal man was able to tackle Clark in MOS, so it's not out of the question.
I'm pretty sure Clark allowed the guy on the boat to tackle him. The jerk trucker couldn't budge Clark a nanometer when he tried to shove him. I still say he could levitate out of a throw to prevent himself from crashing into anything, even if Batman did somehow manage to pull one off.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:47 AM   #80
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I kind of question why Batman would be dumb enough to try to take on Superman in hand to hand combat. A well written Batman would never let it come to that – because he would probably know that Kryptonians can kill a man from across the room... with their eyes.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:59 AM   #81
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I'm pretty sure Clark allowed the guy on the boat to tackle him. The jerk trucker couldn't budge Clark a nanometer when he tried to shove him. I still say he could levitate out of a throw to prevent himself from crashing into anything, even if Batman did somehow manage to pull one off.
I agree, Clark definitely allowed that guy to push him. It probably wasn't the first time something like that happened to him.

Now, if we can agree Batman gets to pull off a judo toss, why would Superman stop before hitting the ground? It's not like he'd get hurt if he landed on a desk or concrete or anything. I like the idea of Superman thinking "Did he actually do that? To ME?" and not worrying about the impact.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:03 AM   #82
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

Superman might not be so taken aback by a human trying to fight him though. That trucker in MOS tried and he was just a little guy. He even continued to hassle Clark after that shove didn't even budge him. That little dude had balls. Superman might be used to humans pulling that stuff.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:03 AM   #83
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Throwing him across the room is a bit much... but disappearing from the guy who has super vision and super hearing isn't???
I know I know...as soon as I wrote it I facepalmed..

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:05 AM   #84
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Superman might not be so taken aback by a human trying to fight him though. That trucker in MOS tried and he was just a little guy. He even continued to hassle Clark after that shove didn't even budge him. That little dude had balls. Superman might be used to humans pulling that stuff.
This is true (btw Mrskent I love everything you've brought to this thread, your posts are awesome). I don't know how to combat this aside from saying maybe Batman would be the first one to try a technique that would work, using the opponent's strength/weight against him? That's kind of a stretch though.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:24 AM   #85
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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This is true (btw Mrskent I love everything you've brought to this thread, your posts are awesome). I don't know how to combat this aside from saying maybe Batman would be the first one to try a technique that would work, using the opponent's strength/weight against him? That's kind of a stretch though.
Thanks man! That's always nice to hear.

I got the impression from the bar scene that this wasn't the first time a human had hassled Clark like that. This Clark seemed like the type to interfere in situations like that and the aggressors of such things probably wouldn't take kindly to it. But, Batman has skills that the average human doesn't. So Superman could very be surprised by something Batman tried if he had never had anyone use martial arts or gadgets before and was in a relaxed state. However, even if he was surprised initially, it would make sense for him to become alert, process the situation quickly and recover.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:30 AM   #86
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

Just a thought, you know how everyone here is saying how they want Batman to be spying and doing research on Superman? What if they turn the tables? Supes trying to find out more about this Bat creature that's been roaming Gotham for years now?

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:35 AM   #87
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

^ I thought it would be cool if Clark Kent, reporter, was trying to research this mysterious Batman that some folks claim roams the streets of Gotham and other folks claim doesn't exist at all. Alternatively, Kent could be researching Bruce Wayne, billionaire philanthropist, who is assisting Lex Luthor in his "rebuild Metropolis" project. Either way, Clark may come across something that leads him to think Wayne and Bats are the same person.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:39 AM   #88
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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I think their complaint is that Superman's reaction time should be much higher than a human's.
Sure. My point was that Batman is theoretically capable of tossing Superman across the room, not that it would realistically happen.

It is worth noting that Superman's superior reflexes are often ignored for the sake of the plot, but I wouldn't want to see that happen just for Batman to get a toss in.


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I kind of question why Batman would be dumb enough to try to take on Superman in hand to hand combat. A well written Batman would never let it come to that – because he would probably know that Kryptonians can kill a man from across the room... with their eyes.
I think a more arrogant and hotheaded Batman would attempt a physical confrontation and that's not really the Batman I want to see.

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I'm pretty sure Clark allowed the guy on the boat to tackle him.
I think he was legitimately caught off guard. After watching that scene again, it looked to me as if he was genuinely surprised by what had almost happened. I think he was too wrapped up in his own thoughts to pay attention to his surroundings. I don't think that's out of the question, even for Superman.

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The jerk trucker couldn't budge Clark a nanometer when he tried to shove him.
Arguably because he wasn't caught off guard and was paying attention.

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I still say he could levitate out of a throw to prevent himself from crashing into anything, even if Batman did somehow manage to pull one off.
No one said he couldn't.

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:42 AM   #89
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^ I thought it would be cool if Clark Kent, reporter, was trying to research this mysterious Batman that some folks claim roams the streets of Gotham and other folks claim doesn't exist at all. Alternatively, Kent could be researching Bruce Wayne, billionaire philanthropist, who is assisting Lex Luthor in his "rebuild Metropolis" project. Either way, Clark may come across something that leads him to think Wayne and Bats are the same person.
Yes!! I'd love that!

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Old 12-25-2013, 01:52 AM   #90
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

^ I think it would be great for both characters. It could showcase how Clark isn't just a big, dumb muscle man. He can be a good reporter and use his brain. It could also help the "urban legend" angle for batman. Since they didn't mention any other superheroes before Superman, this would make sense for bats. It also shows how skilled Batman is. He could be a master of stealth. He takes on Gotham's criminals in the dark of night and leaves an impression that makes people question whether or not he is a creature or man or if he even exists at all.

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:17 AM   #91
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^ I think it would be great for both characters. It could showcase how Clark isn't just a big, dumb muscle man. He can be a good reporter and use his brain. It could also help the "urban legend" angle for batman. Since they didn't mention any other superheroes before Superman, this would make sense for bats. It also shows how skilled Batman is. He could be a master of stealth. He takes on Gotham's criminals in the dark of night and leaves an impression that makes people question whether or not he is a creature or man or if he even exists at all.
Exactly, I loved it in Begins where he's an urban legend and people thinking he can really fly and disappear into thin air instead of how he was in the dark knight and rises..seriously though, im sorry to bring this up again but what happened to Nolan in between begins and TDK? it seemed like he lost all of his knowledge of batman and the atmospherics of gotham. IMO

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:20 AM   #92
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I've said this for a while: just have them already know each other's true identities before they ever meet in person.

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:26 AM   #93
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Exactly, I loved it in Begins where he's an urban legend and people thinking he can really fly and disappear into thin air instead of how he was in the dark knight and rises..seriously though, im sorry to bring this up again but what happened to Nolan in between begins and TDK? it seemed like he lost all of his knowledge of batman and the atmospherics of gotham. IMO
I'm not sure if it was really lack of knowledge or simply wanting the character to fit into a specific storyline. I did like the Nolan Batfilms a lot, so I won't pretend to be "over" them, but I don't think they cannot be improved upon. There is certainly more to Batman than what was shown in the trilogy. I am very curious to see what aspects of Bats Snyder and his writers choose to emphasize.

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:33 AM   #94
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I'm not sure if it was really lack of knowledge or simply wanting the character to fit into a specific storyline. I did like the Nolan Batfilms a lot, so I won't pretend to be "over" them, but I don't think they cannot be improved upon. There is certainly more to Batman than what was shown in the trilogy. I am very curious to see what aspects of Bats Snyder and his writers choose to emphasize.
Oh don't get me wrong I really loved the trilogy! but like you I want to see all of batman in all of his glory

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:34 AM   #95
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Methinks you misread my post...
Methinks you are right ..,. sorry. My point still stands nonetheless.

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Old 12-25-2013, 02:45 AM   #96
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Oh don't get me wrong I really loved the trilogy! but like you I want to see all of batman in all of his glory
No worries, I know what you mean.

I think we'll see something different than what Nolan showed, at the very least. Will it be better? Who knows. The addition of an Oscar-winning writer bodes well. Snyder, Goyer, and Affleck are comic fans as well. The key thing for them will be to fit the story to the characters and not bend the characters into a story.

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Old 12-25-2013, 04:10 AM   #97
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Bathead, as a person with some martial arts experience, let me ask you a question: Are there not weight classes in competitive combat sports of all kinds, including Judo? Why is that? Could it possibly be that even within the world of martial arts that the advantages of size, weight, mass and strength are actually factored in when putting people into matches against one another? Now if we also take the sheer physical forces that Superman can produce with little effort, there are no scenarios that Batman should be able to flip Superman in. Or Kalibak. Or Darkseid. Or Black Adam. OR Wonder Woman. Or... Why? Try Judo flipping a steel reinforced concrete wall, that's why.

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Old 12-25-2013, 04:13 AM   #98
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I agree. He wasn't expecting it and was too shocked to react. Superman may be incredibly strong, but he still weighs the same as an ordinary man. Theoretically speaking, Batman is very much capable of tossing him across the room. A normal man was able to tackle Clark in MOS, so it's not out of the question.
One could argue that Clark ALLOWED that man to tackle him. Quite easily actually. It is also a common trope in the mythos.

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Old 12-25-2013, 04:26 AM   #99
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Bathead, as a person with some martial arts experience, let me ask you a question: Are there not weight classes in competitive combat sports of all kinds, including Judo? Why is that? Could it possibly be that even within the world of martial arts that the advantages of size, weight, mass and strength are actually factored in when putting people into matches against one another? Now if we also take the sheer physical forces that Superman can produce with little effort, there are no scenarios that Batman should be able to flip Superman in. Or Kalibak. Or Darkseid. Or Black Adam. OR Wonder Woman. Or... Why? Try Judo flipping a steel reinforced concrete wall, that's why.
Allow me to respond (I hope Bathead does as well). I have more experience with stand up fighting than with judo, but I have been to tournaments without weight class (which are not as common as the ones you refer to). I have fought someone literally twice my weight. The techniques were extremely difficult (I did not pull off the hip toss we have been referring to in this thread however) but they are possible. I am also nowhere near as proficient as Batman. Size can certainly give an advantage, as you say, but advantages can be overcome.

I must point out that I think we're over thinking this. This thread was not about whether Batman was capable of throwing Superman, buy whether they should fight at all.

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Old 12-25-2013, 05:00 AM   #100
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Allow me to respond (I hope Bathead does as well). I have more experience with stand up fighting than with judo, but I have been to tournaments without weight class (which are not as common as the ones you refer to). I have fought someone literally twice my weight. The techniques were extremely difficult (I did not pull off the hip toss we have been referring to in this thread however) but they are possible. I am also nowhere near as proficient as Batman. Size can certainly give an advantage, as you say, but advantages can be overcome.

I must point out that I think we're over thinking this. This thread was not about whether Batman was capable of throwing Superman, buy whether they should fight at all.
Funny you should mention Open Weight class styled tourney event. I used to participate in something called The Dog Brothers Gathering of The Pack, a real contact stickfighting event that also included bare knuckle striking and submission wrestling (mind you, getting hit by the stick still goes, even on the ground) all at the same time. So I know that the smaller man can beat the larger man... But the reality is it doesn't happen as much as we would like to pretend. Strength, weight, general mass do make a huge difference. Now add into the magnitude of difference between a person capable of NOT producing forces that can shatter titanium against someone who CAN.

Besides that, I just think that BatGod is a boring, Gary Stuish character that pretty much drains every story of drama or tension. You know... The complaint that was always leveled against silver age Superman?

"Superman is lame. He can do anything and beat anyone that the story demands."

"Batman is so awesome. He can do anything and beat anyone."

There's a huge double standard at work here, and one that doesn't even make sense within a logic bending fictional universe when you take a minute to think about it.

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