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Old 12-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #126
Batmannerism
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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there are ways to beat Supes. If enough preparation is made and you can set the environment. you don't even have to have Kryptonite. but if you do and can dictate the terms of the fight and have the element of surprise then it's not hard at all.
We've seen endless ways in the books.

First, I love the classic Dark Knight returns sequence where Batman gets the upper hand over supes. I love it because it involves Batman using every trick and stratagem he can muster, and he still gets pretty badly injured - and of course has to use kryptonite. Even then, Superman is holding back , a lot, and is pretty much an unwilling combatant the whole time. It's a bitter fight, but a good one. It shows that once, just once,
under the right circumstances Batman could defeat Superman (provided Superman wasn't trying that hard). It's well written, well drawn, a real
classic moment in DC comics history.

Could you post some examples of Bats defeating Superman in a physical confrontation where its [QUOTE ] it's not hard at all.[/QUOTE]
because I can't think of any. I'm not saying you're wrong, because Superman gets sucker-punched all the time, and trapped by his foes, but it's usually pretty difficult for whoever's trying it (as Brainiac has discovered to his detriment).

You are correct though, if you can dictate the terms of an engagement, the turf it's fought on, and you have a weapon that your opponent is completely vulnerable to -it specifically exists to destroy them- and you have the element of surprise, then you pretty much should win, no matter who you're up against (even Batman took out Darkseid with the right bullet). Although, with that kind of planning and prep, you can't say it's not hard at all, because those of themselves are a major expenditure of effort.

The two classic Batman fights Superman situations in which Bats comes out on top (Hush, and Dark Knight Returns) strongly feature Kryptonite.

I guess that in Red Son, Batman overcomes Superman using Red sun radiation -and of course dies at the end of that confrontation.
But, essentially, whether it's kryptonite or other stuff, Batman has to neutralize Superman's powers in order to prevail.

Remember the plot line where Superman is under Max Lord's mind control.
Superman, even holding back, pulverizes Batman.

Also, in all of those situations, Superman was not trying all out to destroy Batman. If he did, it would go a bit like this. (even in HUsh, he was under mind control, and had enough restraint to regain control of himself to save Lois )

Batman : "A-ha a sonic boom, here comes Clark, I'll just....." (reaches for Kryptonite ring)

SPLAT. Moving faster than the eye can see, Superman slams into Batman with the force of a small meteor. Vaporizes Kryptonite with heat vision. Batman is reduced to a smear.


So, now on to the thread. Personally, I'm not that keen on a fight.
but if it has to go down, then my suggestion is one of two ways.

1) John Byrne it....Batman uses his wits, so a non-physical confrontation, in which Superman has to do what Batman wants because Bats outwits/manipulates him. Mark Millar did this brilliantly at the end of Red Son.

2) Batman attacks Superman, which is ultimately futile. After a bit of pointless mayhem, Superman has to save some bystanders from one of Batman's attacks that goes awry (a stray missile or something). Bats realises Supes isn't that bad a guy after all. Later in the film, when Supes is on the ropes (maybe from kryptonite or some fiendish Luthor stratagem) Batman saves Supes.

In then end, allies but not buddies.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:10 PM   #127
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The end should be them on the road to becoming best buds because in the comics they do become that in which Supes gives him a kryptonite ring in case he ever goes rogue.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:31 PM   #128
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^ I'd like to subvert Superman TAS by having Lois PRETEND to have a relationship with Bruce in order to extract information in relationship to his hunt for Superman. I'd love to have Clark confront her and be forced to either trust her, or let his mistrust guide the relationship.

But I don't want Lois to express any interest in Bruce.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:33 PM   #129
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Or you can do it like it was done in Hush if you wanted. I doubt we'll get hat but Lois and Clark could be investigating Bruce Wayne.





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Old 12-25-2013, 09:54 PM   #130
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

Heck, Lois could investigate Bruce on her own and discover that he's Batman independent of Clark. They did a good job of showing her reporting/investigative skills in MOS, but this would simply highlight that fact more AND keep her involved in the story now that both Batman and Wonder Woman are appearing. She could also investigate Le Luthor and his activities.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #131
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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Heck, Lois could investigate Bruce on her own and discover that he's Batman independent of Clark. They did a good job of showing her reporting/investigative skills in MOS, but this would simply highlight that fact more AND keep her involved in the story now that both Batman and Wonder Woman are appearing. She could also investigate Le Luthor and his activities.
I agree but it doesn't have to be only Lois we could see the Lane & Kent team in action. Would give Clark (not superman) an arc in the film. We need to see him being a reporter.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #132
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I'd love to see the Lane and Kent team in action. I've been waiting for that in a movie and haven't gotten it.

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Old 12-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #133
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I'd love to see the Lane and Kent team in action. I've been waiting for that in a movie and haven't gotten it.
Agreed.

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Old 12-25-2013, 10:17 PM   #134
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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I really hope it doesn't happen. I like Bat Zeus more than anyone but on film? No, thanks.

Superman would obliterate Batman. I don't care what convoluted explanation they come up with but I sincerely hope they avoid doing that because no ridiculous reasoning will get me to accept that fight.
This. So much this.

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Old 12-25-2013, 10:22 PM   #135
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

It wouldn't be a straight up fist fight anyway. If anything, it'd be Batman luring Superman into some kind of carefully-prepared trap, possibly one that he doesn't even have to be physically present for.

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Old 12-25-2013, 11:13 PM   #136
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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Or you can do it like it was done in Hush if you wanted. I doubt we'll get hat but Lois and Clark could be investigating Bruce Wayne.



Maybe I'm confused about what Hush you're talking about, but this is not from the Hush I'm familiar with.

edit:

Damn Fallen...you really got me wracking my mind over this. Isn't this from when Wayne owned the DP? Someone help here...

Good Lord...okay I found it. It is Hush, but I swear I don't even remember that part.

Crisis averted...lol

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

Last edited by charl_huntress; 12-25-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-25-2013, 11:50 PM   #137
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

As long as the fight doesn't turn into what Nolan did in the Batman/Bane fight. And im speaking about batman forgetting his gadgets and stealth and that he is the goddamn creature of the night who feeds criminals his boots and fists of justice. He used some mini smoke grenades in a bright environment against a beast of a man and then cut the lights off and just stood their. No grappling gun no nothing. And I understand completely why Bruce did what he did in that fight and where he was psychologically at the time, but it just made batman look incompetent and pathetic. I want Batman to employee every aspect of his character in the fight. Genius, stealth, agility, martial arts, tech etc.

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Old 12-25-2013, 11:54 PM   #138
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

Absolutely agree, Marvolo.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:16 AM   #139
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

Honestly, I don't even know how Bale's Batman survived for as long as he did fighting crime since he didn't come off as someone who was a master of martial arts.

He came off as more of a glorified brawler who had a few gadgets to spare and was good at sneaking up behind incompetent thugs.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:38 AM   #140
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WTH is THAT? Looks like a handshake!

"Please to meet you Mr Bane."

Why he didn't EVER use Batarangs on Bane, I have no idea.

If I had a Batman vs Bane fight, I'd actually have Batman throw Batarangs, and Bane dodge several and catch one in midair.

Unrealistic, yes, but it also shows Batman as being somewhat prepared.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:42 AM   #141
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

They could have had so many badass moments.

1) Batman hits Bane with a sleeping dart, Bane overcomes it by shutting off his mask for a moment to let the pain rush through him

2) Batman shoots Bane in the vest with the grapple gun, Bane grabs the line and pulls Batman down.

3) Batarangs in Bane's arm. Bane pulls them out like it ain't no thang

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:45 AM   #142
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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WTH is THAT? Looks like a handshake!

"Please to meet you Mr Bane."
Goodness. I don't understand why this was even allowed into the final movie. Why did no one catch this? Odd.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:45 AM   #143
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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They could have had so many badass moments.

1) Batman hits Bane with a sleeping dart, Bane overcomes it by shutting off his mask for a moment to let the pain rush through him

2) Batman shoots Bane in the vest with the grapple gun, Bane grabs the line and pulls Batman down.

3) Batarangs in Bane's arm. Bane pulls them out like it ain't no thang
Stop it!! You're making me sad..

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #144
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

It doesn't bother me as much in the movie because of the badass sound effect, but yeah in gif form it looks pretty dumb.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #145
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That entire fight was underwhelming. When Bane broke Batman's back, I was like, "Is that it? I should've felt that, man."

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:47 AM   #146
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Nah, I still got chills at the bat-break, man.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:47 AM   #147
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

I was ok with the breaking scene too. But the rest...eh.


I would be surprised if Snyder doesn't do a good job depicting Batman's fighting style. I'm expecting much better Batman action in this movie.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:50 AM   #148
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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Nah, I still got chills at the bat-break, man.
Yeah the bat-break was pretty ****in awesome

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:54 AM   #149
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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They could have had so many badass moments.

1) Batman hits Bane with a sleeping dart, Bane overcomes it by shutting off his mask for a moment to let the pain rush through him

2) Batman shoots Bane in the vest with the grapple gun, Bane grabs the line and pulls Batman down.

3) Batarangs in Bane's arm. Bane pulls them out like it ain't no thang

4) Batman aims at the little tube-things at the mask, and actually HITS it. Bane is stunned, then reattaches the wires.

5. Batman kicks Bane, who grabs his leg and slams him to the ground.

6. Batman throws his bola, causing Bane to trip. He rips the chords open just by spreading his legs.

7. Batman actually SNEAK attacks Bane, and attacks from above, but he catches Batsy by the throat.

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:55 AM   #150
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Default Re: Is anyone else hoping they don't fight?

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They could have had so many badass moments.

1) Batman hits Bane with a sleeping dart, Bane overcomes it by shutting off his mask for a moment to let the pain rush through him

2) Batman shoots Bane in the vest with the grapple gun, Bane grabs the line and pulls Batman down.

3) Batarangs in Bane's arm. Bane pulls them out like it ain't no thang
So true!
I liked the first fight when I first saw TDKR, just because Batman gets a brutal ass whooping. However, on subsequent viewings it does become obvious that he doesn't even attempt to use any of the skills, strategy, smarts or viciousness that makes Batman such a feared combatant. The phantom punch in the gif above is the worst example, of the choreography falling apart, but otherwise, while Batman is pathetic, Bane dishes out a reasonable hurting !

As you say Batman should integrate his gadgets into his tactics, I started a thread way back about what his fighting style should be like.
I totally agree, Bats should be throwing batarangs and bombs as distractions and following up right away.....man, that flash powder in TKDR was just embarrassing.

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