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Old 02-02-2014, 06:14 AM   #51
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Ok but when i started this thread i was talking about using such characters as Killer Croc or Clayface. Or even Mr. Freeze. Not Batman himself, who i agree is kinda fantastic too.

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Old 02-02-2014, 07:28 AM   #52
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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But depending on what your beliefs are, there is probably more chance of their being an alien species out in the vast expanse of the universe than there is of a human being being on the level of comic book Batman
Yeah, it's more probable the existence of something we don't know if exists or not that the existence of something for sure exists, perhaps not exactly like shown in the comics but yes in its concept. Brilliant reasoning, yes.

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Batman, for maybe a day or two before he winds up like his parents. Also, he'll only have a fraction of any quality that the comic Batman has, to the point where he'd be more like Phoenix Jones than Batman.

Nevermind that, realism has little to do with what's real. It's more about simulating reality, and Superman's mythos does that better. Batman's treads to close to the Uncanny Valley and thus it comes out less realistic.
So you're giving me the reason: Batman can exist, Superman (for what we know about the universe) not. And I'm not talking about the specific stories of the comics (most of which are mediocre for me), but about the character's concept.

And about the Uncanny Valley, I think I understand what you mean: Batman mythos is more difficult to believe than Superman's because it consists in grotesque characters in a realistic context, while Superman is pure fantasy and for that reason is more consistent. It's an interesting point, but I don't agree because you're missing the key point: Batman talks about reality, Superman not. Batman is an exaggerated hyperbole about society, and each villain (because I consider Bruce Wayne himself is a villain) represents a kind of real violence: Batman the violence of police, Joker the gratuitous violence, Two Faces the violence of legal system, Penguin the violence of greed... This is what makes him far more realistic not just than Superman but than all superheroes.


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Old 03-11-2014, 07:17 AM   #53
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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It isn't. It makes it hyper realistic. What makes it unrealistic is that he's everything at once. But the things he masters in can all be accomplished. A few of those things can even be accomplished at the same time. It's not anywhere near as fantastical as an alien from some planet who can fly and do the things he does.

Even if you say it's a fantasy. Fine. But it's a much more relatable fantasy than Superman that's for damn sure. He's human. Clark is an alien. End of story.

Or Clark is an everyman farm boy and Bruce is a insanely rich kid
Myself being from a small town, adopted and trying to be basically a decent guy, I always related to Superman much much more. I still love Batman though.

I think Batman fits fine into the world of crazies and gothic noir he immersed. If properly done, it creates a nice dark believable reality. Superman's takes a little more suspension of disbelief but no more than many popular SF and fantasy franchises.

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Old 04-23-2014, 09:17 AM   #54
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I loved Clayface's depiction in BTAS, Mr. Freeze's too. I really do enjoy the dark tone present in the Nolan trilogy though.

I'll probably be happy with whatever route they decide to go with, Batman's Batman.

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Old 04-23-2014, 09:22 AM   #55
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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I loved Clayface's depiction in BTAS, Mr. Freeze's too. I really do enjoy the dark tone present in the Nolan trilogy though.

I'll probably be happy with whatever route they decide to go with, Batman's Batman.
Agreed, as long as they don't go camp.

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Old 05-04-2014, 12:54 PM   #56
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

This is a fantastic thread. Best read I've had on here in a long time. To answer the original post: I am totally ready for Batman to go fantastic, supernatural. I'd love to see a Batman who reacts to the newfound strangeness in the world, in his life. The TDK trilogy has it's moments but for me they are fleeting. I can appreciate the first two films, but I'm ready for some fantasy mixed in. I hope this is the path taken. Make it a real world setting. I remember the huge gothic statues, crazy buildings and structures that made up Gotham in the Schumacher films. Too much, too campy by far. Nolan gave us a believable Gotham, much like the world in MOS was very believable. Bring the freaks into that. Give me the Monk, Hugo Strange and his genetic freaks, a Man-bat, I'm ready for some comic book thrills.

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Old 05-04-2014, 01:49 PM   #57
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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This is a fantastic thread. Best read I've had on here in a long time. To answer the original post: I am totally ready for Batman to go fantastic, supernatural. I'd love to see a Batman who reacts to the newfound strangeness in the world, in his life. The TDK trilogy has it's moments but for me they are fleeting. I can appreciate the first two films, but I'm ready for some fantasy mixed in. I hope this is the path taken. Make it a real world setting. I remember the huge gothic statues, crazy buildings and structures that made up Gotham in the Schumacher films. Too much, too campy by far. Nolan gave us a believable Gotham, much like the world in MOS was very believable. Bring the freaks into that. Give me the Monk, Hugo Strange and his genetic freaks, a Man-bat, I'm ready for some comic book thrills.
Thanks. And i totally agree with your post!

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Old 05-04-2014, 02:05 PM   #58
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I doubt the Batfleck universe will have things like monsters, Man-Bat, Clayface and all that stuff.

We'll have to wait til at least the mid-2020's for something like that. The Re-Re-reboot!

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Old 05-04-2014, 02:26 PM   #59
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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I doubt the Batfleck universe will have things like monsters, Man-Bat, Clayface and all that stuff.

We'll have to wait til at least the mid-2020's for something like that. The Re-Re-reboot!
Yeah, somehow i dont think those things are gonna make it in the Ben Affleck-era. Oh, well you can hope. I still think that a cameo scene in Arkham Asylum would be the best way to include some of the more fantastic characters.

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Old 05-04-2014, 02:35 PM   #60
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Here's a few quotes from a discussion i had about Clayface with Nam rorriM, it's from the Story Ideas thread http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461873

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I've been thinking...One way to cover Batman villains is to have a quick cameo of them in Arkham Asylum. Surely better than nothing? Just a quick glimpse of Clayface in a padded cell would be cool, the general audience would be like "WTF is that?! " but us fans would know.
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I suppose that way they could gauge the publics response to certain villains and then go down that avenue if they wanted. Time to give the joker a ten year holiday ....
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Just imagine batman passing batman in a cell, for it to shift back into clayface for a close up scare as he pounds the window..
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:10 PM   #61
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I don't know if "fantastical" is the right word, but I wouldn't mind incorporating the sci-fi elements so we could get villains like Freeze and Poison Ivy. Just to add some spectacle and variety to it.

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:17 PM   #62
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Mr Freeze and Clayface are the two I want to see most... I can't wait for the next Batman solo film... Hopefully Affleck does at least one

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Old 05-05-2014, 08:46 AM   #63
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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I don't know if "fantastical" is the right word, but I wouldn't mind incorporating the sci-fi elements so we could get villains like Freeze and Poison Ivy. Just to add some spectacle and variety to it.
Well, Clayface is pretty fantastical.

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Old 05-05-2014, 09:53 AM   #64
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I dont think they'll do Freeze or Clayface within this universe. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a really long time before WB starts accepting those kind of batman villains again. Affleck is just not the type of director, stylistically, to tap into such visuals anyhow.

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Old 05-05-2014, 01:24 PM   #65
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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I dont think they'll do Freeze or Clayface within this universe. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a really long time before WB starts accepting those kind of batman villains again. Affleck is just not the type of director, stylistically, to tap into such visuals anyhow.
Yeah, unfortunately i have to agree with that.

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Old 05-16-2014, 05:33 PM   #66
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I'm curious, if they did go with Clayface, how should he be introduced in a semi-believable way?

I'm thinking nanites could be a cool direction to go in.

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Old 06-29-2014, 08:08 PM   #67
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Would love to see characters like Man-Bat, Clayface, Killer Croc, and Mr. Freeze.
I don't know if Man-Bat could carry a Batman movie alone, but I would love to see him maybe with Hugo Strange. I would love to see Croc as he was introduced in the 1980's (almost like Bane, and has brains, he wouldn't come off as a Lizard rip off). Mr Freeze like BTAS would be awesome.

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Old 08-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Yes they should. Why not? Introduce the more out there elements of Batman's world and make it strange and unique like the comics.

If they have Batman taking on Superman in the same movie in which an Amazon, and the King of Atlantis is introduced, they can have Batman squaring off against Clayface, Freeze, and others.

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Old 08-17-2014, 09:32 PM   #69
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Man-Bat is who I want to see before any other villain at this stage. We were fortunate enough to get the best Joker ever and a great interpretation of Bane. I'd like to see some horror/horrific elements come into play in a Batman film. Man-Bat would rock!

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Old 08-17-2014, 09:35 PM   #70
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

seriously! a horror direction would be perfect for the new series.

Morrison's Arkham Asylum is the perfect place to get inspiration for a Batman movie with horror visuals

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Old 08-18-2014, 04:17 AM   #71
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

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Yes they should. Why not? Introduce the more out there elements of Batman's world and make it strange and unique like the comics.

If they have Batman taking on Superman in the same movie in which an Amazon, and the King of Atlantis is introduced, they can have Batman squaring off against Clayface, Freeze, and others.
Agreed - anything is possible in the Snyderverse.

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Old 08-18-2014, 04:19 AM   #72
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

I'd love to see a new portrayal of Freeze.

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Old 08-18-2014, 09:32 AM   #73
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

They could bring in horror and sci-fi villains, sure. But they have one solo film to toy with. Affleck is probably directing, so you have to surrender to his style. Ben has shown thus far that he's an even grittier, more realistic director than Nolan. But he's also working within the Snyder universe. So it could be about balance and i think making it dark, reality based but also bringing in some horror elements into the story will work. Real horror, not Man-Bat type horror. It also depends on how they want to approach Gotham. Is this a universe where they want to keep Batman reality based but have him surrounded by all these alien heroes? Or do they now want to mesh that crazy world within Batmans universe too?

One movie, probably directed by Affleck, i seriously doubt he will want to use Freeze, Clayface, Man-Bat or even a whole movie based on Black Mask. I feel very strongly about this. That the Joker will be used and perhaps another classic rogue that hasn't been done justice: Riddler/Penguin.

Marketing is a huge thing, and quite frankly, these monster villains will not sell the movie. It's one thing to feature them for the first time ever, in various small roles, it's another to build a whole film around 1 or 2 of them.

I for one don't like Man-Bat and think it's one of the dumbest ideas they can do next. Killer Croc as well. Cameos in Arkham? Fine. But beyond that, they're generic characters that have never been well-written or had any originality. We've seen the Lizard on film and that's basically what we would be getting on the surface with Croc unless they did the Azarello version, and Man-Bat was a rip-off of Conners anyhow.

A Batman: The Animated Series Clayface seems to be the most popular version of the character around here. But i dont see a single way to make that origin work, and not look goofy as hell. Im sorry guys, but i think some of these monsters work within animation very well but they barely work in the comics let alone live-action.

I can see it now. A ton of you will be disappointed when the news comes out that the film is featuring a middle-aged Joker or some detective mystery involving Riddler.


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Old 08-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #74
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

Well, even though I have often argued that Nolan's movies could have tackled any villain they wanted no matter how fantastic, I really don't want to see another version of the character that implies such a rigid sense of reality that it would disregard ANY of Batman's rogues.

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Old 08-18-2014, 10:38 AM   #75
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Default Re: Should the new Batman movies go fantastical?

This universe will naturally incorporate the more fantastical characters. Joker will be perma-white. A serious Victor Fries could exist. Bruce has been Batman for close to 20 years, so with that, the rogues gallery multiplies and multiplies.

But im a firm believer that the monster villains aren't exactly a good fit for live-action. In my opinion they've always been throw-aways (i haven't read a single comic where any of them have worked). They work better in video games or animated television where it's more episodic. Villain of the week. To reference them in the movies would be fine, even a glimpse here and there, but that's it.

Roman Sionis, Hugo Strange, Edward Nygma, Oswald Cobblepot. All characters who haven't had their due. They mesh better with Batman rather than the fantastical rogues who feel more like they belong in Spider-Mans world sometimes.

Not to mention this is taking inspiration from The Dark Knight Returns. The solo film will be the only time we see Commissioner Gordon or Mr. J. Joker must be shown. We deserve to see the Joker to Affleck's Batman, same with Catwoman. I want to see where they are in their 40s. If West can have Romero, Keaton-Nicholson, Bale-Ledger...then we deserve to see it here. I can say the same about Newmar, Pfeiffer and Hathaway.

I say mix Arkham Asylum and Joker/Batmans final battle from Returns. Throw in some Death in the Family style flashbacks and we're set. In Arkham we can get a glimpse of the Mad Hatter or Croc along with Two-Face and Riddler. That sounds good to me. But keep it Joker centric. Tie it in with Jason Todd's life. Penguin can be used in a couple of scenes inside Iceberg Lounge, same with Selina in a rooftop scene or something.

Just like a Batman Beyond movie, i dont think we need to see the sci-fi, futuristic, half animal-half man villains until it's an absolute last resort. When you have exhausted all ideas then you bring that to the table. There will ALWAYS be batman movies. This world still has a lot of grit to it and it's just not time yet for a full-on fantastical Gotham with Freeze, Ivy and Clayface running around.


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