The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

View Poll Results: What's your stance on Superman killing Zod?
Hated it. Superman should never kill. 15 27.78%
Liked it, but it could have been handled better. 11 20.37%
Loved it. No problem with it whatsoever. 22 40.74%
Didn't care. 6 11.11%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2014, 02:00 PM   #1
EssayM
Just A Guy
 
EssayM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 684
Default The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

(Just a heads up: There will, obviously, be spoilers to follow, though I'm pretty sure everyone knows about this by now. Just though I'd warn everyone so I don't get in trouble later on.)

Can't find another thread on this, and we desperately need a thread for this whole debate so it stops spilling into other forums, so here we go.

Simply put: What do you think of the infamous scene of Superman breaking Zod's neck, and why? Do you think it was justified? Are you okay with Superman killing in general? Do you think it could have been handled better? How?

__________________
I'm not optimistic, I'm just open-minded.
EssayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 02:22 PM   #2
Harry Dresden
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 829
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Don't care.

Unlike like a lot of people I understand why Snyder put it in the movie. At the same time, it's kind of unnecessary. You really don't need to show why Superman doesn't kill (which was the purpose of the neck snap as Zack has stated); it's just something you kind of accept.

Harry Dresden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 03:17 PM   #3
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

It was fine. While it's not completely necessary to show or explain why Superman doesn't kill, you have to remember that Man of Steel depicts Clark just stepping into the role of being a virtuous paragon of hope. He's not some seasoned superhero veteran in the film so he's going to make mistakes and not do things that are expected of Superman. In comparison, when The Avengers came together in their film, they were all pretty experienced heroes in their own right. Come The Battle of New York, they had more experience saving people and doing their thing compared to Clark. I mean, sure, a lot of what Clark does in Man of Steel is a bit reckless, but that's due to his inexperience and we can assume that the fights in Smallville and Metropolis was the first time Clark ever got into a brawl of any sort. With an inexperienced Clark finally unleashing his power, **** was going to inevitably break, be it towns, cities, or necks. A good argument that justifies the whole killing Zod thing is that the Superman we know from the comics doesn't really show up until just before the credits when he's chatting with the general.


Last edited by teagone; 04-20-2014 at 03:22 PM.
teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 05:16 PM   #4
EssayM
Just A Guy
 
EssayM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 684
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagone View Post
It was fine. While it's not completely necessary to show or explain why Superman doesn't kill, you have to remember that Man of Steel depicts Clark just stepping into the role of being a virtuous paragon of hope. He's not some seasoned superhero veteran in the film so he's going to make mistakes and not do things that are expected of Superman. In comparison, when The Avengers came together in their film, they were all pretty experienced heroes in their own right. Come The Battle of New York, they had more experience saving people and doing their thing compared to Clark. I mean, sure, a lot of what Clark does in Man of Steel is a bit reckless, but that's due to his inexperience and we can assume that the fights in Smallville and Metropolis was the first time Clark ever got into a brawl of any sort. With an inexperienced Clark finally unleashing his power, **** was going to inevitably break, be it towns, cities, or necks. A good argument that justifies the whole killing Zod thing is that the Superman we know from the comics doesn't really show up until just before the credits when he's chatting with the general.
But the individual members of the Avengers (particularly Cap and Iron Man) started off pretty inexperienced in their respective solo films, and none of them made mistakes that disastrously bad. Yet I still believed they were "new to this".

__________________
I'm not optimistic, I'm just open-minded.
EssayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 05:32 PM   #5
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,158
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

I've debated it enough so I won't say much.

All I will say, is that no matter how many times I watch it, it never gets any easier to deal with... every time that neck snaps, it cuts right to my heart.

And I don't like feeling that way when it comes to Superman. I don't wanna feel devastated... I wanna feel uplifted.

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 05:59 PM   #6
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
But the individual members of the Avengers (particularly Cap and Iron Man) started off pretty inexperienced in their respective solo films, and none of them made mistakes that disastrously bad. Yet I still believed they were "new to this".
Breaking Zod's neck wasn't a mistake though? It was a thorough and deliberate decision. Clark had no other way to stop a Kryptonian from achieving mass genocide of the human race except to kill him. Or are you talking about the collateral damage? That said, you could argue that the power levels and scope of conflict that Clark was dealing with was on a much larger scale than what was present in all the MCU origin films. Pretty heavy situation to deal with for just a farm boy.

teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #7
EssayM
Just A Guy
 
EssayM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 684
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagone View Post
Breaking Zod's neck wasn't a mistake though? It was a thorough and deliberate decision. Clark had no other way to stop a Kryptonian from achieving mass genocide of the human race except to kill him. Or are you talking about the collateral damage? That said, you could argue that the power levels and scope of conflict that Clark was dealing with was on a much larger scale than what was present in all the MCU origin films. Pretty heavy situation to deal with for just a farm boy.
As a side note, that is something that bothers me about the film; when you're just doing the first movie, do you really need your action on such a large scale? Maybe they could've saved some of that chaos for the sequel? If they did that, they might've had a little more time to deal with the impact it's having on Clark.

__________________
I'm not optimistic, I'm just open-minded.
EssayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 06:18 PM   #8
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
As a side note, that is something that bothers me about the film; when you're just doing the first movie, do you really need your action on such a large scale? Maybe they could've saved some of that chaos for the sequel? If they did that, they might've had a little more time to deal with the impact it's having on Clark.
I feel like part of why Snyder chose that level of destruction in Man of Steel was to show just how destructive Clark and his ilk are. Basically its a statement that says Kryptonians are truly god-like beings with nearly limitless destructive power in this new world building exercise for DC films. And having all that happen to Clark in a such a little amount of time shows just what he's made of. He dealt with everything as best as he could, and despite his best efforts, the destruction was inevitable. The film's namesake reflects upon that part of Clark's character arc.

teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 06:58 PM   #9
EssayM
Just A Guy
 
EssayM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 684
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagone View Post
I feel like part of why Snyder chose that level of destruction in Man of Steel was to show just how destructive Clark and his ilk are. Basically its a statement that says Kryptonians are truly god-like beings with nearly limitless destructive power in this new world building exercise for DC films. And having all that happen to Clark in a such a little amount of time shows just what he's made of. He dealt with everything as best as he could, and despite his best efforts, the destruction was inevitable. The film's namesake reflects upon that part of Clark's character arc.
I don't know...I feel like they could've cut back a little and still gotten that across. I'm currently studying video editing, and there are more than a few scenes that could've been trimmed or cut all together.

__________________
I'm not optimistic, I'm just open-minded.
EssayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:16 PM   #10
Harley2004
Side-Kick
 
Harley2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 661
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Batman and Lex, will not cared he killed Zod. Not sure why anybody would. The fact that he leveled a city is the problem.

He should have killed him sooner.

Harley2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 08:05 PM   #11
EssayM
Just A Guy
 
EssayM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 684
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley2004 View Post
Batman and Lex, will not cared he killed Zod. Not sure why anybody would. The fact that he leveled a city is the problem.

He should have killed him sooner.
Yeah, that's another thing...if all Supes needed to bring him to kill was civilians in danger of dying, I would think he would've snapped Zod's neck waaaay before then. Thousands dead/injured in both Metropolis and Smallville don't drive him to murder, but one random family does? WTF?

__________________
I'm not optimistic, I'm just open-minded.
EssayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 08:29 PM   #12
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
Yeah, that's another thing...if all Supes needed to bring him to kill was civilians in danger of dying, I would think he would've snapped Zod's neck waaaay before then. Thousands dead/injured in both Metropolis and Smallville don't drive him to murder, but one random family does? WTF?
The family wasn't the reason why Clark finally killed Zod. The whole entire fight was Zod retaliating; he was bent on destroying the human race. Pretty sure Clark was doing his best to find a way to stop Zod throughout the entire sequence. He ended up pinning Zod at a pivotal moment during their fight. That took significant effort. I mean, it's not like Zod would willingly let Clark put him in a headlock. The guy was genetically created to be a soldier. Some farm boy who's never been in a real fight his whole life isn't going to drop him in like 10 minutes. Especially not against someone of equal power.

teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 08:32 PM   #13
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
I don't know...I feel like they could've cut back a little and still gotten that across. I'm currently studying video editing, and there are more than a few scenes that could've been trimmed or cut all together.
I agree. There was excess, but I'm personally ok with the amount of action. I can understand it being too much for some though.

teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:10 PM   #14
InJustice
Side-Kick
 
InJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,991
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
Yeah, that's another thing...if all Supes needed to bring him to kill was civilians in danger of dying, I would think he would've snapped Zod's neck waaaay before then. Thousands dead/injured in both Metropolis and Smallville don't drive him to murder, but one random family does? WTF?
The point is Superman was not looking to kill Zod. In fact, killing was the last thing he wanted to do. He wanted to contain Zod and show that co-existence is possible, the only problem is that Zod is stuck to his old ideals.

InJustice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:10 PM   #15
I Am The Knight
World's Finest
 
I Am The Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DCAU
Posts: 12,382
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

I just don't think Superman needs to deal with this kind of conflict, especially not this early in his career. Snyder and Goyer haven't provided a particularly satisfactory answer as to why this scene needed to be included.

I feel like Superman destroying the World Engine was a more satisfying climax than the Superman/Zod fight which actually ends up in a very anti-climatic way (the audience gets some kind of release in the next scene when the surveillance drone crashes tough).

Anyway, it's like the movie ended with the destruction of the World Engine, but Snyder still had another fight scene in him. "I know the movie just ended but I have this other fight scene I want to show you. I don't know if you guys still wanna see it but anyways here's the f***ing Superman/Zod fight scene."

I Am The Knight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:46 PM   #16
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
I just don't think Superman needs to deal with this kind of conflict, especially not this early in his career. Snyder and Goyer haven't provided a particularly satisfactory answer as to why this scene needed to be included.
How about Cavill's take? (He talks moreso about the amount of destruction, not the neck break explicitly)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btKE...utu.be&t=1m17s

I found Goyer's explanation satisfactory, personally. For those who haven't read it: http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/new...oC20XVIiHuXhTc. Snyder's Kobayashi Maru scenario explanation is good enough for me too. But again, I can understand why its controversial.


Last edited by teagone; 04-20-2014 at 09:51 PM.
teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:55 PM   #17
Harley2004
Side-Kick
 
Harley2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 661
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

I don't know anybody outside of a few posters in place like this that cared about the death of Zod, maybe it's as Snyder said, the 1978 movie?

I do think the destruction of the city will be an issue in BvS, though.

Harley2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:03 PM   #18
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,240
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

I thought it was fine, personally. Without Kryptonite, or the Phantom Zone, there weren't many alternatives.

I don't mind Superman killing if he has absolutely no other choice.

Thundercrack85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:21 PM   #19
-Arya-
Batman v Superman - 2016
 
-Arya-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,487
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Personally I was okay with it; provided that it doesn't go completely unacknowledged in
B vs. S

-Arya- is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:21 PM   #20
smallville fan
Hero
 
smallville fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,258
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagone View Post
The family wasn't the reason why Clark finally killed Zod. The whole entire fight was Zod retaliating; he was bent on destroying the human race. Pretty sure Clark was doing his best to find a way to stop Zod throughout the entire sequence. He ended up pinning Zod at a pivotal moment during their fight. That took significant effort. I mean, it's not like Zod would willingly let Clark put him in a headlock. The guy was genetically created to be a soldier. Some farm boy who's never been in a real fight his whole life isn't going to drop him in like 10 minutes. Especially not against someone of equal power.
This.

That fight would not have lasted that long if Clark wasn't looking for a way out.

Regarding the neck break, I actually found out about it before I saw the film(stupid me for being on the internet 24/7) I had mixed feelings at first, wondering why they would do such a thing, then my friend(who's a DC fan too) who saw the movie before me said that scene was good, then I ended up watching it and after reading up on some comics and watching Superman: Doomsday, I felt adding that in was very much justified and well within Superman's character.

__________________
OFFICIAL MAN OF STEEL DEFENDER FOR LIFE

WILL HAPPILY DEBUNK ANY HATER AND SEND THEM PACKING! :P
smallville fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:37 PM   #21
I Am The Knight
World's Finest
 
I Am The Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DCAU
Posts: 12,382
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagone View Post
How about Cavill's take? (He talks moreso about the amount of destruction, not the neck break explicitly)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btKE...utu.be&t=1m17s

I found Goyer's explanation satisfactory, personally. For those who haven't read it: http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/new...oC20XVIiHuXhTc. Snyder's Kobayashi Maru scenario explanation is good enough for me too. But again, I can understand why its controversial.
I warched the Cavill video but I couldn't understand what was being said.

Yeah I've read Goyers's explanation but I think this is a case of over complicating a character. Superman should deal with moral scenarios but the Zod kill is too much. Part of the appeal of the character is that he is a bit more "pure" than other heroes, and the ending of MOS taints that. Not to mention that there was no way for Goyer to know for sure that they would get to make sequels so that they could explore the issue, and frankly, I have no interest in seeing that. I know I sound like a Superman fan who simply doesn't like change, but I just don't think this change was necessary, at all.

__________________
Before SHH, your miserable, insignificant little life was laughable. Now that you've found SHH, have you noticed you've become more popular? Suddenly EVERYONE wants to hang out with you.

SHH. You owe us your livelihood. / Avvy by Kane52630!

Last edited by I Am The Knight; 04-20-2014 at 10:40 PM.
I Am The Knight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:41 PM   #22
smallville fan
Hero
 
smallville fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,258
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
Part of the appeal of the character is that he is a bit more "pure" than other heroes, and the ending of MOS taints that.
But now you could see the fun part of how he builds himself up from that and becomes a better hero. That makes an interesting journey.

__________________
OFFICIAL MAN OF STEEL DEFENDER FOR LIFE

WILL HAPPILY DEBUNK ANY HATER AND SEND THEM PACKING! :P
smallville fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:51 PM   #23
teagone
Countryside General
 
teagone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
But now you could see the fun part of how he builds himself up from that and becomes a better hero. That makes an interesting journey.
Exactly. Seeing the process of a god-like being who's not infallible rise up and become a virtuous paragon through trials and tribulations makes for a much more dynamic narrative than a god-like being who's just perfect right from the start.

[edit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
I warched the Cavill video but I couldn't understand what was being said.
The question the person asked was basically: "There's been a lot of discussion in Man of Steel about the amount of destruction, like Metropolis and stuff like that. What's your response to people saying 'why would Superman destroy so much of city when he's suppose to try and protect them'". Henry responded with something to the effect of: "It wasn't intentional. If two god-like beings were to do battle, that's what would inevitably happen. When given the chance to take Zod down or leave him be, he'll destroy the entire planet, not just parts of Metropolis. It's about minimizing as much damage as possible by choosing the lesser of two evils (which is killing Zod)".


Last edited by teagone; 04-20-2014 at 11:14 PM.
teagone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 11:12 PM   #24
sportjames23
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 303
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssayM View Post
But the individual members of the Avengers (particularly Cap and Iron Man) started off pretty inexperienced in their respective solo films, and none of them made mistakes that disastrously bad. Yet I still believed they were "new to this".
Yet, they still tore up NYC as much as Superman and Zod (and really, it was mostly Zod's World Engine) did Metropolis. That was Superman's first day on the job. The Avengers were experienced by the time they fought the Chitauri.

sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 11:14 PM   #25
sportjames23
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 303
Default Re: The Broken Neck: Yea or Nay? *SPOILERS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley2004 View Post
Batman and Lex, will not cared he killed Zod. Not sure why anybody would. The fact that he leveled a city is the problem.

He should have killed him sooner.

Again, why does Superman get the blame for Zod doing most of the damage to Metropolis?

And how could Superman kill Zod sooner when Zod had the upper hand most of the fight?

sportjames23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.