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Old 02-26-2014, 04:01 PM   #876
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Default Re: All Hail the King

Honestly, I haven't watched IM3 since my first time at the theaters, and mainly because of the Mandarin and how it was "handled."

However, this might make it a tad bit more digestible for me. Just having the possibility of the real, true, character existing is enough to erase what I felt was one of the more ridiculous twists I've seen in awhile.

And it also renders a lot of the vitriol and half baked defense of the Killian character that went on in here obsolete. Thank god...

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:16 PM   #877
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Oh how I wish for this to happen...

In truth though I will take any one of these as long as we get a decent MANDARIN
Oh believe me, all of those options are WAY above getting no Mandarin. I want to see a take on The Mandarin that brings the traditional fear he instills, with a modern, dark, terrorist feel. It can be done properly with the right director and casting. It could be amazing.

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:21 PM   #878
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Default Re: All Hail the King

I feel like no matter what they do it'll feel a little to late, the ship might of sailed at that point. It'll of been several years since IM3 has been out, and I just imagine the general audiences might find it played out the whole "Mandarin" thing. At this point it's only to please the fans who didn't care for the twist. It's not like IM3 wasn't a critical or commercial success. I don't know perhaps it'll work out, maybe I'm just jaded in the idea of just redoing what they should of done in the first place.

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:29 PM   #879
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And it also renders a lot of the vitriol and half baked defense of the Killian character that went on in here obsolete. Thank god...
How exactly?

'Iron Man 3' and Killian being The Mandarin still exists whether you or a handful of ''upset'' people believe it or not.

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:51 PM   #880
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How exactly?

'Iron Man 3' and Killian being The Mandarin still exists whether you or a handful of ''upset'' people believe it or not.
Ok, but based on this One Shot, Killian obviously isn't THE Mandarin.

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:56 PM   #881
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But for people who don't watch a 'One Shot' then they won't have a clue, nor care.

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Old 02-26-2014, 05:07 PM   #882
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Just because you don't watch it or care doesn't mean it isn't a part of the story. Most people hated Star Wars Episode I, but that doesn't mean that midi-chlorians weren't introduced and don't exist. They refuse the acknowledgment of midi-chlorians, but that doesn't mean George Lucas didn't introduce them and make them a central aspect of "The Force."

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Old 02-26-2014, 07:21 PM   #883
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Default Re: All Hail the King

and some people ignore the prequels altogether, what's your point?

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Old 02-26-2014, 07:29 PM   #884
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Default Re: All Hail the King

Honestly until there's an official announcement within the confines of a movie it's all up to whoever is watching it to what's legit and what's not. As far as I'm concerned this was solely to appease any fans who were still cranky about the IM3 twist (myself being one of them), the thing is I don't know what the point in doing so is if they have no plans on following this up in some future movie. It's nice thinking there's supposed to be a "real" Mandarin out there in that universe (that apparently nobody knew about/Killian made up not knowing he was real), but it's still annoying when he should of just been in IM3 to begin with.

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Old 02-26-2014, 07:39 PM   #885
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Well I agree, while I wasn't bothered in the slightest by the twist, it's fairly obvious this is damage control...to fix nothing that was damaged. The Mandarin isn't some big flashy, wonderful fan favorite, up until last year I couldn't find barely anyone who gave a rat's behind about him. I'd rather them build up Thanos instead.


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Old 02-26-2014, 11:28 PM   #886
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I don't think of this as damage control. The MCU has always been all about leaving a trail of breadcrumbs there for future filmmakers to pick or discard as they please. And all this without compromising the internal logic or established fact within the MCU. Think Samuel Sterns in TIH.

AHTK is more about expanding the universe, Mandarin lore et al, rather than re-configuring (retconing, in the parlance of our times ) established events.

After Avengers 3, with or without Downey, the Iron Man franchise will continue. If a director comes to Marvel with a unique and compelling take on the Mandarin, or if Marvel Studios' brain trust themselves come up with said unique and compelling take, they can pick it up and run from there. The groundwork has already been laid.

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Old 02-27-2014, 01:12 AM   #887
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I really liked Iron Man 3 and I liked what they did with the Mandarin, but people had been talking about him for yeaaaaaars, it wasn't just something that came out of nowhere.

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:48 AM   #888
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Default Re: All Hail the King

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and some people ignore the prequels altogether, what's your point?
The point is that just because someone ignores something doesnt mean its not the truth. If you're lying in bed and you hear a serial killer walking in your house, hiding under the sheets and plugging your ears won't keep him from killing you.

The writers, directors and producers decided The Ten Rings is real and they have a real leader named The Mandarin. Damage control or not, its what they did. It might make some people feel better to pretend they didn't, but they did.

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Old 02-27-2014, 08:02 AM   #889
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Default Re: All Hail the King

I actually wouldn't mind if All Hail the King is the last word on The Mandarin. We know there's a Mandarin, even after the Iron Man 3 fake-out it was clear that The Ten Rings was an established entity in the film series and someone had to be leading them... and this short confirms that the person leading them is The Mandarin.

Whether or not there's an actual Mandarin or not is irrelevant to the effectiveness of Iron Man 3's plot: I actually thought it was an excellent "evil scheme" on Killian's part, I just felt it was a shame they had to throw such an iconic villain under the bus to pull it off. But Killian crafting this public boogeyman persona of The Mandarin to achieve his own ends does preclude there being a real Mandarin lurking in the shadows. And I kinda feel like he should stay in the shadows, something more menacing by being unknowable.

So, for fans slighted by Mandarin's exclusion, this short mends the fences and assures us the character still exists in the MCU. But for those who liked the plot of Iron Man 3 just fine, this does nothing really to undermine or alter it. Seems like a happy medium to me.

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Old 02-27-2014, 09:54 AM   #890
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I only disagree with one part. I really think they need to do something more with him. If they leave it with AHTK, it'll just further the idea that (true or not) this was nothing more than a Ctrl+Z to the twist in Iron Man 3. To truly get away from that idea, Feige needs to find somewhere for him, or at least The Ten Rings IMO (AOS would be good for The Ten Rings).

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Old 02-27-2014, 10:53 PM   #891
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Default Re: All Hail the King

I like how the people that defended the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 ended up losing.

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Old 02-28-2014, 02:58 AM   #892
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I like how the people that defended the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 ended up losing.
I defended the "Mardarin stuff" in Iron Man 3.

I loved what they did with Killian's manufactured Mandarin persona in the film and I also loved how they expanded the Mandarin lore in the AHTK one-shot.

So, I lost... what, exactly?

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Old 02-28-2014, 05:54 AM   #893
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Default Re: All Hail the King

Can't we all just get along and move forward with the new information we have, together?

I hated the twist at first, but it grew on me. Then, after seeing AHTK I became happy with the path that was ultimately taken. Finally, The Ten Rings from the first Iron Man film seems to be more than an afterthought. No way Killian was behind it, and now that side of the coin makes sense.

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Old 02-28-2014, 01:06 PM   #894
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I defended the "Mardarin stuff" in Iron Man 3.

I loved what they did with Killian's manufactured Mandarin persona in the film and I also loved how they expanded the Mandarin lore in the AHTK one-shot.

So, I lost... what, exactly?
It was retconned...so you defended something Marvel knew was terrible and so they retconned their mistake.

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Old 02-28-2014, 01:37 PM   #895
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It was retconned...so you defended something Marvel knew was terrible and so they retconned their mistake.
That wasn't a retcon.

AHTK doesn't change or invalidate anything that happened in IM3.

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Old 02-28-2014, 01:54 PM   #896
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It was retconned...so you defended something Marvel knew was terrible and so they retconned their mistake.
For it to have been a retcon, AHTK should have invalidated or altered a fact or event that occurred in IM3. It didn't. Hence, nope.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:34 AM   #897
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'Iron Man 3' and Killian being The Mandarin still exists whether you or a handful of ''upset'' people believe it or not.
I'll try to ignore your condescension and move on to the point. From the beginning in here, I and others, never felt that Killian announcing himself as "The Mandarin" was a legitimate statement anyway.

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...php?p=25875717

I always took it as he was giving himself credit as the mastermind behind the plot, perhaps that he embodied everything the world thought the Mandarin stood for. But at no point did I really believe he was being called The Mandarin behind the scenes by anyone in the Marvel Universe ever. This one shot just solidifies that as a possibility. Which, like I said, is enough to make the twist a bit more manageable if I ever try to trudge through IM 3 (or 2 for that matter) again...

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Old 03-01-2014, 12:01 PM   #898
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For it to have been a retcon, AHTK should have invalidated or altered a fact or event that occurred in IM3. It didn't. Hence, nope.
There was effectively no Mandarin in Iron Man 3 now. Killian could have been called The Grand Papoose....R-E-T-C-O-N

It was a terrible decision and a bastardization of Iron Man's most iconic villain. The people that defended the hokey twist now get to eat crow as Marvel has fixed their terrible mistake. Feels good.

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Old 03-01-2014, 04:12 PM   #899
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Default Re: All Hail the King

The whole twist itself is a very interesting and creative idea, I just think it was poorly executed and delivered considering how cool the idea of Ben Kingsley playing this very intense serious Mandarin depicted as a modern day terrorist. The biggest negative I always read about the MCU is besides Loki there's a lack of memorable villains still around. This could of been their shot at establishing another strong villain.

Again I wasn't a fan of the execution of the twist, but this whole reveal in this short of there being a real Mandarin out there just begs the question of why not do that from the start instead of oddly dragging it out into a short that may or may not get touched on again in the future?

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Old 03-02-2014, 09:15 AM   #900
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There was effectively no Mandarin in Iron Man 3 now. Killian could have been called The Grand Papoose....R-E-T-C-O-N

It was a terrible decision and a bastardization of Iron Man's most iconic villain. The people that defended the hokey twist now get to eat crow as Marvel has fixed their terrible mistake. Feels good.
Now he's Iron Man's ''most iconic villain'' all of a sudden?!

Oh boy, they sure do care about it... so much that they done it in a 12 minute One-Shot that hardly anyone will see or care about.

How much did Iron Man 3 take at the BO again?

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