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Old 01-12-2014, 09:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

With the exception of Kill Bill I don't think splitting a movie in two parts has ever worked. Even Deathly Hallows had the problem that not much happend in part 1 and part 2 was basically just a very long battle scene.

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Old 01-12-2014, 09:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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With the exception of Kill Bill I don't think splitting a movie in two parts has ever worked. Even Deathly Hallows had the problem that not much happend in part 1 and part 2 was basically just a very long battle scene.
I enjoyed Kill Bill a lot but it's probably the only example of a split up movie I have ever watched so maybe I don't have the best frame of reference on how bad that can end up

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Old 01-12-2014, 10:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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It depends. I think a two part A3 would allow them to give the (by then) nearly dozen Avengers each something to do, and would allow for Loki to play a part in the film. Even though the MCU will endure, A3 should still feel like a send-off film for this era in the MCU.

It will theoretically involve most of the cast of A1, in addition to Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Ant-Man, Wasp, possibly War Machine, Falcon, Bucky, and perhaps one or two other Avengers (Black Panther, Vision, Captain Marvel?) We might also see Loki in a role similar to the one Mephisto played in the actual Infinity Gauntlet comic book. Such a story can't be contained in a single 2 hour and 20 minute film. Make a 5 hour film, split it in 2, and schedule them for May and November 2019.
I have to agree, the Infinity Gauntlet story is just too epic to be confined to one movie. Also, the idea of Loki replacing Mephisto in the story is brilliant & I can totally see that happening.

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Old 01-13-2014, 11:50 AM   #29
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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I have to agree, the Infinity Gauntlet story is just too epic to be confined to one movie. Also, the idea of Loki replacing Mephisto in the story is brilliant & I can totally see that happening.
Help me out, I haven't read the Infinity Gauntlet story. Is it more epic than Lord of the Rings: Return of the King? Is it more epic than Avatar? Is it more epic than Titanic? I'm not convinced.

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I think they could make it it work. In many ways Avengers was a very condensed version of Ultimates vol 1 parts 1 and 2, but with less character development and the scale of the threat felt smaller since there was a much smaller response to Hulk and the Chitauri respectively. Split in two and pumped up I think Avengers would have had 2 fully satisfactory movies but what do I know I don't make movies lol
Well, I can't guarantee the public's reaction either way, but for me, as someone who loved Ultimates Vol 1, I would have hated giving up $12 and 2 hours of my life if that was the story. Very much unsatisfying.

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With the exception of Kill Bill I don't think splitting a movie in two parts has ever worked. Even Deathly Hallows had the problem that not much happend in part 1 and part 2 was basically just a very long battle scene.
I don't think Kill Bill worked particularly well either. I never saw the second one in theatres, despite liking the first one. Splitting isn't the best option unless you just HAVE to cover story points that won't fit in a 3 hour movie. For a more or less direct book adaptation, I think that's great... you've set up dozens of story points you're about to end the franchise, you HAVE to pay those off...

But for the Infinity Saga... unless you're about to turn Avengers 3 into an Adam Warlock movie, or spend most of the movie introducing new macguffins on top of the infinity stones that are slowly rolling out, there's not really much to adapt. It's a very simple story, especially when you take into account the recent Infinity arc.

Thanos finally assembles the Gauntlet, wipes out half the universe. Half the Avengers go to space to recruit, the other half stay on Earth as the resistance. Everyone has plenty to do, dealing with Thanos' dopplegangers, taking the Gauntlet after Thanos disembodies himself, collecting cosmic epicness, all these things based out of the Infinity War/Crusade storylines without actually bringing in the Goddess and Magus as villains that supercede Thanos. It ends with the Avengers fighting to the last man as someone, hopefully Captain America, gets the Gauntlet in the end and fixes everything. This is epic, this is huge, this is not five hours worth of story, and anything about the Goddess or Magus you add in the middle does not help the story of the Avengers. Any of that should be in a Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

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Old 01-13-2014, 01:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

I would have loved an adaptation of The Ultimates vol.1 and 2 though, i think the plot lends itself well for a single film, but it works better as an introduction to the characters, rather than a sequel to multiple solo films.

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Old 01-13-2014, 02:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

Well, we know which Ant Man Rudd is playing:

http://marvel.com/news/movies/2014/1...arvels_ant-man

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Old 01-13-2014, 02:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

Forget Rudd, how about Michael Douglass as Hank Pym? Much more epic!

http://twodashstash.com/2014/01/mich...k-pym-ant-man/

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Old 01-13-2014, 02:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

Yeah... it's hard to be mad at an old Pym when it's Michael Douglass. That's pretty fracking epic.


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Old 01-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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Yeah... it's hard to be mad at an old Pym when it's Michael Douglass. That's pretty fracking epic.

Exactly. I expect this version of Pym to have some demons in his closet. He's an old, weathered man who hasn't been a hero in years. His research has lead to some great achievements, and has been misused time and again (tie him to SHIELD/Howard Stark, have him responsible for AI Tech and, now, his Pym Particles are being used to commit robberies). So, he re-emerges onto the scene to right his wrongs and guide a new generation (passes the torch on to Lang).

Also, maybe he serves as a scientific consultant. (I'd love to see him back and forth with Ruffalo & RDJ in AoU as they try and find a glitch in Ultron's system).

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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I expect this version of Pym to have some demons in his closet. He's an old, weathered man who hasn't been a hero in years. His research has lead to some great achievements, and has been misused time and again (tie him to SHIELD/Howard Stark, have him responsible for AI Tech and, now, his Pym Particles are being used to commit robberies). So, he re-emerges onto the scene to right his wrongs and guide a new generation (passes the torch on to Lang).
Back when the "Eye Spy" episode of AoS aired, someone had suggested that Pym particles could be behind the miniaturization used in Centipede's cybernetic eye devices. I didn't pay much attention to the theory at the time, but maybe it's worth re-evaluating in light of Pym's age and propensity for having his inventions misused.

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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Help me out, I haven't read the Infinity Gauntlet story. Is it more epic than Lord of the Rings: Return of the King? Is it more epic than Avatar? Is it more epic than Titanic? I'm not convinced.

It involves about 20 superheroes, half the universe's population dying, and space gods hurling planets like volleyballs and the embodiment of the Universe itself going to war with a usurper. That's more epic than a bunch of blue cat people with spears fighting men in mechs.


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Old 01-13-2014, 07:18 PM   #37
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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It involves about 20 superheroes, half the universe's population dying, and space gods hurling planets like volleyballs and the embodiment of the Universe itself going to war with a usurper. That's more epic than a bunch of blue cat people with spears fighting men in mechs.

The scale is bigger clearly, but I wouldn't call Green Lantern more epic than Avengers simply because more power gets thrown around. I was referring more to the idea of human drama on a grand scale rather than just having a grand scale when I said epic. Grand scale doesn't require grand time. It only takes thirty seconds to destroy half of the universe. What makes it epic instead of dumb is how much we care about the planets we see destroyed, that can take a lot of time, depending on how much you want people to care about those planets.

My first concern is the space gods... is it an Avengers story? If it's done as an Avengers story, do the space gods actually figure into the plot and the Avengers just sort of gawk in awe with the audience? Or is that part of the story reduced to the Avengers in space recruiting Eternity to fight Thanos? Would that better serve an Avengers story than introducing the Celestials?

My second concern is... what are these 20 superheroes needed for? Busy work, basically, while the space gods do all the important story stuff? If so, wouldn't all that busy work naturally be unnecessary or easily condensed?

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Old 01-15-2014, 01:07 AM   #38
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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It depends. I think a two part A3 would allow them to give the (by then) nearly dozen Avengers each something to do, and would allow for Loki to play a part in the film. Even though the MCU will endure, A3 should still feel like a send-off film for this era in the MCU.

It will theoretically involve most of the cast of A1, in addition to Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Ant-Man, Wasp, possibly War Machine, Falcon, Bucky, and perhaps one or two other Avengers (Black Panther, Vision, Captain Marvel?) We might also see Loki in a role similar to the one Mephisto played in the actual Infinity Gauntlet comic book. Such a story can't be contained in a single 2 hour and 20 minute film. Make a 5 hour film, split it in 2, and schedule them for May and November 2019.
Agreed plus for all anyone knows A3 could very well be the end of the MCU. Might as well go out with a bang.

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Old 01-15-2014, 10:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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Agreed plus for all anyone knows A3 could very well be the end of the MCU. Might as well go out with a bang.
Well, Feige has said that they have some form of plan through 2021, which could indicate the possibility of an A4. He's also said that they plan on taking the Bond route, of a continually ongoing franchise. Also, it doesn't make sense to create a brand new film studio with a specific ending in sight. I'm pretty sure that their hope is to continue making these movies until the end of time.

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Old 01-15-2014, 03:05 PM   #40
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

With all of these reports on Dr. Strange, could Marvel officially announce the film before they release Cap 2?

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Old 01-15-2014, 03:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

I feel all or part of Phase III will be announced at San Diego Comic Con. The panel will probably begin with GOTG stuff and end with Phase III.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

I still don't get why people are assuming that Thanos is going to be the main villain in an "Avengers" movie ...

I think it's more likely that an Infinity Gauntlet movie would be it's own movie that brings the Avengers, GOTG and others together the same way Avengers brought the characeters from the previous movies together.

To me it still seems like there's a Masters Of Evil(sic)/Thunderbolts/Dark Reign scenario being set up...

Ultron
Strucker (Iron Patriot?),

Crossbones
Batroc

Scarlet Johanssen is going to be the highest paid woman in hollywood for Avengers 2 ...... in a cast that size? ...... that says to me she's going to have a big role ....... is she going to turn out to be a traitor like in The Ultimates comics? .... it would also create a window to bring Mockingbird into later films as a love interest for Hawkeye.

......

Betty Ross (Liv Tyler) is back in A:AOU for the first time since The Incredible Hulk .... could there also be mention of Colonel Ross? Abomination? The Leader? ... I think Abomination would be a good substitute for the Mac Gargan Venom in an MCU Thunderbolts team.

......


As for the Avengers themselves ...

I think Cap could be the guy getting killed off (time travel gun?) and maybe Bucky/Winter Soldier take up the shield as he did in the comics.
(Crossbones with a sniper rifle and a brainwashed Sharon Carter played major roles in that storyline and the two are both supposed to be appearing in Avengers2 after Winter Soldier)

Could Stark become director of SHIELD and retire Iron Man with War Machine becoming the Avengers' token piece of Armour?

Falcon, Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch are new additions we already know about, but apparently Ultron will be producing "offspring" as well, which has me thinking that The Vision and maybe Jocasta aren't too far from appearing on screen at some point and eventually joining the team.
....or what about Victor Mancha as a lead-in to The Runaways?

The founding members sold the first movie, but now the team is established, why not keep tweaking the roster and let the likes of Hulk and Thor get stuck into more of their own sequels? (I can see the "Loki" graphic novel from which Thor&Loki:Blood Brothers motion comic was adapted working well as the basis for the next Thor film, with the seige of Asgard following that if the story back on Earth all goes a bit Dark Reign ..... and as for Hulk, Who doesn't want Planet Hulk amd WWH? that would be awesome!)

.....

Finally the new to MCU characters appearing in Phase 3....

Ant-Man .... Not one of my favourite characters, I've just never found him to be a character you can really care about, Pym or Lang.
But I can see Rudd making him likable so I don't mind where he pops up, he has storytelling potential, like for instance Pym Particles turning Hawkeye into Goliath?

Doctor Strange has been involved with so many different characters and teams that I can see him possibly being to Phase 3 what Nick Fury was to Phase 1, bringing things together ....
Personally I'd like to see the eventual Defenders miniseries feature not just Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones and Daredevil but also bring in other characters to make the team more like the old Defenders or New Avengers than Heroes For Hire and I think a series of cameos from Strange, helping to unite the team in the 4 series leading up to Defenders could work very nicely

Inhumans? - not sure exactly what they will add to the franchise but I'll give em a go

Black Panther? - long overdue, get a move on!



So back to Thanos....

Yeah I can see an Infinity Gauntlet movie coming at some point, but I'm putting my money on it being GOTG 3 not Avengers 3


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Old 01-16-2014, 10:17 PM   #43
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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I feel all or part of Phase III will be announced at San Diego Comic Con. The panel will probably begin with GOTG stuff and end with Phase III.
If I had to guess, the likeliest scenario for SDCC is that they will announce that Ant-Man will be followed by Thor 3, Doctor Strange, and Captain America 3 -- and that the rest of Phase 3 won't be announced until 2015!

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Old 01-16-2014, 10:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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I still don't get why people are assuming that Thanos is going to be the main villain in an "Avengers" movie ...

I think it's more likely that an Infinity Gauntlet movie would be it's own movie that brings the Avengers, GOTG and others together the same way Avengers brought the characeters from the previous movies together.

To me it still seems like there's a Masters Of Evil(sic)/Thunderbolts/Dark Reign scenario being set up...

Ultron
Strucker (Iron Patriot?),

Crossbones
Batroc

Scarlet Johanssen is going to be the highest paid woman in hollywood for Avengers 2 ...... in a cast that size? ...... that says to me she's going to have a big role ....... is she going to turn out to be a traitor like in The Ultimates comics? .... it would also create a window to bring Mockingbird into later films as a love interest for Hawkeye.

......

Betty Ross (Liv Tyler) is back in A:AOU for the first time since The Incredible Hulk .... could there also be mention of Colonel Ross? Abomination? The Leader? ... I think Abomination would be a good substitute for the Mac Gargan Venom in an MCU Thunderbolts team.

......


As for the Avengers themselves ...

I think Cap could be the guy getting killed off (time travel gun?) and maybe Bucky/Winter Soldier take up the shield as he did in the comics.
(Crossbones with a sniper rifle and a brainwashed Sharon Carter played major roles in that storyline and the two are both supposed to be appearing in Avengers2 after Winter Soldier)

Could Stark become director of SHIELD and retire Iron Man with War Machine becoming the Avengers' token piece of Armour?

Falcon, Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch are new additions we already know about, but apparently Ultron will be producing "offspring" as well, which has me thinking that The Vision and maybe Jocasta aren't too far from appearing on screen at some point and eventually joining the team.
....or what about Victor Mancha as a lead-in to The Runaways?

The founding members sold the first movie, but now the team is established, why not keep tweaking the roster and let the likes of Hulk and Thor get stuck into more of their own sequels? (I can see the "Loki" graphic novel from which Thor&Loki:Blood Brothers motion comic was adapted working well as the basis for the next Thor film, with the seige of Asgard following that if the story back on Earth all goes a bit Dark Reign ..... and as for Hulk, Who doesn't want Planet Hulk amd WWH? that would be awesome!)

.....

Finally the new to MCU characters appearing in Phase 3....

Ant-Man .... Not one of my favourite characters, I've just never found him to be a character you can really care about, Pym or Lang.
But I can see Rudd making him likable so I don't mind where he pops up, he has storytelling potential, like for instance Pym Particles turning Hawkeye into Goliath?

Doctor Strange has been involved with so many different characters and teams that I can see him possibly being to Phase 3 what Nick Fury was to Phase 1, bringing things together ....
Personally I'd like to see the eventual Defenders miniseries feature not just Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones and Daredevil but also bring in other characters to make the team more like the old Defenders or New Avengers than Heroes For Hire and I think a series of cameos from Strange, helping to unite the team in the 4 series leading up to Defenders could work very nicely

Inhumans? - not sure exactly what they will add to the franchise but I'll give em a go

Black Panther? - long overdue, get a move on!



So back to Thanos....

Yeah I can see an Infinity Gauntlet movie coming at some point, but I'm putting my money on it being GOTG 3 not Avengers 3
A lot of that is wrong.

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Old 01-16-2014, 11:46 PM   #45
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Well considering that ...

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A lot of that is wrong.
... couldn't you have offered some more constructive criticism and maybe taught me a few things rather than quoting the whole post simply to underline it with a dismissal which, until expanded upon, offers no potential for learning?

If you're gonna tell me a lot of it is wrong, then tell me which bits.

Considering a LOT of it is wrong, howzabout if there's still time, reduce the quote above and run me through it point by point in your next post.

To be honest I thought most of it was batantly just my OPINION and therefore its not anyone's place to say it's wrong because it's subjective.

But erroneous facts I am interested in correcting, I pride myself on such humility, so please throw me a bone here



EDIT: Yup, I just read through it again and its mostly opinion not claiming to be "right"


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Old 01-17-2014, 12:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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Well considering that ...



... couldn't you have offered some more constructive criticism and maybe taught me a few things rather than quoting the whole post simply to underline it with a dismissal which, until expanded upon, offers no potential for learning?

If you're gonna tell me a lot of it is wrong, then tell me which bits.

Considering a LOT of it is wrong, howzabout if there's still time, reduce the quote above and run me through it point by point in your next post.

To be honest I thought most of it was batantly just my OPINION and therefore its not anyone's place to say it's wrong because it's subjective.

But erroneous facts I am interested in correcting, I pride myself on such humility, so please throw me a bone here



EDIT: Yup, I just read through it again and its mostly opinion not claiming to be "right"
I will tell you what is wrong:

- There is no evidence that any of Hulk's Supporting characters are even going to be in Avengers 2, except maybe Abomination.
- Vision is possible but Jocasta is not. In fact, Jocasta is one of the least likely Avengers to appear in the MCU.
- Falcon is only rumored. If he's in the film it will be the same amount of screentime as Agent Sitwell in the first movie.
- The common theory is that the Avengers will face off against Ultron and the Masters of Evil, which could include Crossbones and Zola and a few others like Abomination and Strucker.
- Runaways is not in the plans anymore.
- Thanos is likely to be the big baddie in Avengers 3.

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Old 01-17-2014, 12:25 AM   #47
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I will tell you what is wrong:
Yeah cool, Please do.
After all, I just asked you to. No need to be so demonstrative, why not just get on with it?...

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- There is no evidence that any of Hulk's Supporting characters are even going to be in Avengers 2, except maybe Abomination.
I haven't seen anything about Abomination, I was just speculating, so unless he's the rumoured love interest for Banner, I'd say Betty was more likely.

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- Vision is possible but Jocasta is not. In fact, Jocasta is one of the least likely Avengers to appear in the MCU.
It was only speculation, again, not claiming to be "right".
...and who are we to say what is "possible" in the MCU?

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- Falcon is only rumored. If he's in the film it will be the same amount of screentime as Agent Sitwell in the first movie
...and you can guarantee that how?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
- The common theory is that the Avengers will face off against Ultron and the Masters of Evil, which could include Crossbones and Zola and a few others like Abomination and Strucker.
...and how does that make my speculation about a "MOE/Thunderbolts/Dark Reign" type scenario wrong?
Osborne's not in the MCU .... I reckon Strucker's going to take his place in the Iron Patriot suit!

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Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
- Runaways is not in the plans anymore.
Didn't realise that.
I thought it wasn't top of the list from Marvel's point of view but the guys upstairs at Disney wanted it making?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
- Thanos is likely to be the big baddie in Avengers 3.
I'll bet you 3 Infinity Gems and a kilo of Vibranium he isn't!



Last edited by Shoppy; 01-17-2014 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:31 AM   #48
Dr. Evil
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

Falcon is going to do much in the movie because there are going to be too many Avengers.

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Old 01-17-2014, 12:33 AM   #49
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shoppy View Post
Yeah cool, Please do.
After all, I just asked you to. No need to be so demonstrative, why not just get on with it?...


I haven't seen anything about Abomination, I was just speculating, so unless he's the rumoured love interest for Banner, I'd say Betty was more likely.


It was only speculation, again, not claiming to be "right".
...and who are we to say what is "possible" in the MCU?


...and you can guarantee that how?


...and how does that make my speculation about a "MOE/Thunderbolts/Dark Reign" type scenario wrong?
Osborne's not in the MCU .... I reckon Strucker's going to take his place in the Iron Patriot suit!


Didn't realise that.
I thought it wasn't top of the list from Marvel's point of view but the guys upstairs at Disney wanted it making?


I'll bet you 3 Infinity Gems and a kilo of Vibranium he isn't!

These threads have everything I am talking about:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=464447
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465983
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=467967
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=471297

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Last edited by Dr. Evil; 01-17-2014 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:49 AM   #50
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Default Re: MCU Phase 3: Have it your way - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoppy View Post

I'll bet you 3 Infinity Gems and a kilo of Vibranium he isn't!

Thanos is being positioned as basically the Voldemort or Sauron of the MCU, being built up over several films as the "big bad." There's no way they waste Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet on a Guardians of the Galaxy film. The story will be "The Main Event" of this era of marvel films, and it will occur in Marvel Studios crown jewel franchise, which is The Avengers.

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2019: The Inhumans, Avengers: Thanos Imperative
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