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View Poll Results: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford be the main characters of the trilogy?
Yes 20 47.62%
No 18 42.86%
Maybe 4 9.52%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-16-2014, 02:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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Originally Posted by flickchick85 View Post
I didn't suggest it was anything other than speculation. I'm just reacting to this news based on my past experiences with the work of both Abrams and Arndt. I never said anything about Arndt being "perfect," I just simply think he is the better screenwriter of the two, and therefore I have more faith in his judgement than in J.J.'s (who's always been hit-or-miss with me, and his fanboyish tendencies are largely to blame for that). And I just happen to think Arndt's approach to the story sounded better anyway.

For the record, I'm not "turning on J.J." I'm still sure whatever he churns out will be a breath of fresh air to this franchise compared to what George most recently gave us in the prequels. But that doesn't mean I have to love every decision he makes, either.

Arndt is definitely the better screenwriter of the two. JJ's Star Trek films were quite overrated in my opinion. Especially the sequel. I don't understand why Solidus is making comments like Arndt is "perfect" and people are "turning" on JJ?

I also have the same concerns as you do FlickChick.


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Old 01-16-2014, 03:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

I remember reading the review of the JJ Abrams Superman script by Drew McWeeny back in the day at Ain't It Cool News. That was a very controversial time for those that remember. Didn't inspire anyone with confidence.


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Old 01-16-2014, 03:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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Originally Posted by NoLaNitE007 View Post
Arndt is definitely the better screenwriter of the two. JJ's Star Trek films were quite overrated in my opinion. Especially the sequel. I don't understand why Solidus is making comments like Arndt is "perfect" and people are "turning" on JJ?

I also have the same concerns as you do FlickChick.
I won't speak for the sequel, but his first Star Trek was an amazing breathe of fresh air and fun. I've haven't' had that sort of excitement in theaters since maybe The Avengers. He made it work despite the muddy plot.

But again, we're all in the dark still. Chick Flick, Solidus, and many more just want a great movie..sobs.

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Old 01-16-2014, 08:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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Originally Posted by flickchick85 View Post
I didn't suggest it was anything other than speculation. I'm just reacting to this news based on my past experiences with the work of both Abrams and Arndt. I never said anything about Arndt being "perfect," I just simply think he is the better screenwriter of the two, and therefore I have more faith in his judgement than in J.J.'s (who's always been hit-or-miss with me, and his fanboyish tendencies are largely to blame for that). And I just happen to think Arndt's approach to the story sounded better anyway.

For the record, I'm not "turning on J.J." I'm still sure whatever he churns out will be a breath of fresh air to this franchise compared to what George most recently gave us in the prequels. But that doesn't mean I have to love every decision he makes, either.
Well when I use the word "Perfect" you know what I mean. Not the literal. And there is nothing wrong with saying that he is the better of the two. And I can't fully disagree with that but here are some things to take in consideration.

1. JJ does write good scripts at times, looking back at his TV days as well. But ya I will not claim them to be the best.

2. SW may bring out the best in him.

3. And this more so of a fact...when it comes to SW, no one writes it better than Kasdan. It's a name that people are just completely throwing out of the ring because they would rather purely worry then anything else. I understand that, we all have worries, trust me I do as well.

But Kasdan when it came to this genre, I still think no one has even touched what he did with Raiders, and Empire. I just feel that having him deeply involved probably will etch out the screenwriting problems that JJ does have, which I won't lie that he has had in the past.

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But like what Solidus said, there's many contradictions to the reports and rumors we're been hearing, especially with JJ wanting to discover new themes and worlds in that one interview he did back in November. We'll see. I won't pass judgment on the man.
Oh ya, there is so much contradiction people will just jump on more rumors then what came out of the horses mouth. But we shall see.

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Originally Posted by NoLaNitE007 View Post
Arndt is definitely the better screenwriter of the two. JJ's Star Trek films were quite overrated in my opinion. Especially the sequel. I don't understand why Solidus is making comments like Arndt is "perfect" and people are "turning" on JJ?

I also have the same concerns as you do FlickChick.
I never claimed that he was not, just most of the hyperbole is not from these forums, but more so of TFN. Trek was not over-rated, it was actually probably the best adventure film I had seen since Raiders of the Lost Ark, was it the perfect Trek film? Not really, but as a fun adventure film, it had it all, and had the same feel of the original SW films as well as the original Indiana Jones films.

I don't get why you don't get my post as much, hopefully you understand it better as of now.

And again, people are completely leaving out Kasdan. I even put it in my original post and no one speaks of that.

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I won't speak for the sequel, but his first Star Trek was an amazing breathe of fresh air and fun. I've haven't' had that sort of excitement in theaters since maybe The Avengers. He made it work despite the muddy plot.

But again, we're all in the dark still. Chick Flick, Solidus, and many more just want a great movie..sobs.
STID was still a fun film, but ya no where near as good as the original. The original was just pure fun. The plot had a few things iffy, but so does a lot of films if you break them down enough. However, it was just that energy/acting/characters of the film that really lifted it up.

And I have my worries as well, no doubts there. But I still have the feeling that we will be very surprised. At the very least I see this film being a little bit above Jedi.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #30
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Yeah, people seem to be completely ignoring that the guy who wrote ESB, which is widely regarded as the best SW, is co-writing. The way that people are so obsessively fixated on JJ, you'd think that he was doing everything himself, which simply isn't the case. It's yet another case of fanboys jumping the gun a ridiculously overreacting based on very little evidence.

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Old 01-16-2014, 06:28 PM   #31
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Yeah, people seem to be completely ignoring that the guy who wrote ESB, which is widely regarded as the best SW, is co-writing. The way that people are so obsessively fixated on JJ, you'd think that he was doing everything himself, which simply isn't the case. It's yet another case of fanboys jumping the gun a ridiculously overreacting based on very little evidence.

Well we have reports they are completely rewriting the script and are on a strict deadline with the old timers as the leads now? Weird.....but still an interesting turn of events to say the least. I am just not part of the "give JJ the benefit of the doubt" crowd. I want to be part of the wait and see crowd.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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Yeah, people seem to be completely ignoring that the guy who wrote ESB, which is widely regarded as the best SW, is co-writing. The way that people are so obsessively fixated on JJ, you'd think that he was doing everything himself, which simply isn't the case. It's yet another case of fanboys jumping the gun a ridiculously overreacting based on very little evidence.
Regardless of the identity and number of people you wish to use, the same argument and rationale still apply. Is this to say that we are automatically right? Of course, not. However, given the content and persistence of the rumour in question, I think it is fair for people to be concern that the new movies might be playing too much to people's nostalgia (as opposed to being a good story in its own, self contained right) by having its first movie focus on old characters over new ones.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
Yeah, people seem to be completely ignoring that the guy who wrote ESB, which is widely regarded as the best SW, is co-writing. The way that people are so obsessively fixated on JJ, you'd think that he was doing everything himself, which simply isn't the case. It's yet another case of fanboys jumping the gun a ridiculously overreacting based on very little evidence.
I do agree with this. Though I understand they can have concerns, but to me it's more of the over-reactions, and most of them are not on these forums.


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Well we have reports they are completely rewriting the script and are on a strict deadline with the old timers as the leads now? Weird.....but still an interesting turn of events to say the least. I am just not part of the "give JJ the benefit of the doubt" crowd. I want to be part of the wait and see crowd.
Not really. The reports we have gotten again and again, even with THR's latest, is that the core of the story is still the same, just the focus of the characters changed, now it seems most the reports say this change was not as long ago as originally thought. Of course we don't know for sure, but the credible reports have mostly indicated the shift of characters, more-so then the core story.

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Regardless of the identity and number of people you wish to use, the same argument and rationale still apply. Is this to say that we are automatically right? Of course, not. However, given the content and persistence of the rumor in question, I think it is fair for people to be concern that the new movies might be playing too much to people's nostalgia (as opposed to being a good story in its own, self contained right) by having its first movie focus on old characters over new ones.
You can always have concerns, but I think some just go over the top. I agree with some of the concerns, but people do forget the positives more then the negatives on the internet. That and almost every rumor of SW7 since September has been...partly false, and lots still unconfirmed. We do have to remember JJ puts out more mis-information out there because he likes his secrecy. People jump too much on JJ IMO on the "nostalgic" factor. I never felt Super 8 to be some super nostalgic over-kill. But even still if so, that is the only film he has done that with. The rest of have been franchise, and I don't see where the nostalgic factor comes in as much. Especially since JJ clearly said a few months ago that he does not want that at all.

But again I understand some of the complaints, and can't say that I don't have slight concern as well. Trust me I do. But for the most part I think they are just small things that probably won't be that way. Kasdan knows SW I think better then most, and is not a fan-boy. I think he will be able to do what he did with Lucas in terms of reigning him in, and making sure he does not go over the top. Something Lucas did alot. If you can find the round table meetings Kasdan, and Lucas have had in the past with Empire, Jedi and Raiders. Kasdan is kinda the guy that goes....that's cheesy, that's over the top, that's spoon feeding etc. He is kinda the guy that balances people going too far out.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:47 PM   #34
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Well when I use the word "Perfect" you know what I mean. Not the literal. And there is nothing wrong with saying that he is the better of the two. And I can't fully disagree with that but here are some things to take in consideration.

1. JJ does write good scripts at times, looking back at his TV days as well. But ya I will not claim them to be the best.

2. SW may bring out the best in him.

3. And this more so of a fact...when it comes to SW, no one writes it better than Kasdan. It's a name that people are just completely throwing out of the ring because they would rather purely worry then anything else. I understand that, we all have worries, trust me I do as well.

But Kasdan when it came to this genre, I still think no one has even touched what he did with Raiders, and Empire. I just feel that having him deeply involved probably will etch out the screenwriting problems that JJ does have, which I won't lie that he has had in the past.
I'm not addressing Kasdan because I made my thoughts known on him when it was first announced that he was board: He is the single most encouraging aspect of this project. The biggest ray of hope for me. That doesn't mean his involvement completely alleviates my concerns regarding the man actually steering the ship here. His involvement is a MAJOR plus, I agree, but it doesn't give me blind faith in everyone else.

Other that, all I can say is...I like your optimism, sir. Truly. And I hope you're able to say "I told you so, silly worrywarts" next year.

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I also have the same concerns as you do FlickChick.
Trepidation loves company.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

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I'm not addressing Kasdan because I made my thoughts known on him when it was first announced that he was board: He is the single most encouraging aspect of this project. The biggest ray of hope for me. That doesn't mean his involvement completely alleviates my concerns regarding the man actually steering the ship here. His involvement is a MAJOR plus, I agree, but it doesn't give me blind faith in everyone else.

Other that, all I can say is...I like your optimism, sir. Truly. And I hope you're able to say "I told you so, silly worrywarts" next year.


Trepidation loves company.
And I will say it's not just blind optimism, I think the whole crew put together is one of the best I've seen. And you know me I'm someone that just will fall in love with something because I want it to. I have some healthy skepticism in me as well. I still have my worries, I just think they are unwarranted. But you know me, if this movie is subpar I'll be the first to say so. However I just have this feeling still, one that I have not had since LOTR, and TDK. Just something seems to be coming together. But I admit I have a few worries and hope that Kasdan can reign him in. As I said above Kasdan if you listen to the ...well read the roundtable's he had with Lucas in the past and Speilberg as well, Kasdan grounds people, and says things like that's too cheesy, or too much like the first one, or that's just lazy etc. He always kinda stops the over the top aspects. He lost out with Jedi on a lot of things, if they would have done Kasdan's original script for Jedi we would have had a much much better film.

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

I actually registered to say that I've enjoyed reading this thread. Everyone makes valid points, and it's nice to see healthy discussion on this topic. Solidus, you make a lot of good points, and I appreciate you putting some things in perspective. I share some of the same concerns already posted here, because I know we all want this to be the absolute best film it can be.

I think, for me, the biggest hurdle I've had to overcome was the fact that Brad Bird wasn't able to make it on as director. For me, he was THE guy to make Star Wars new and fresh again. I love Abrams, I really do. I think he's one of the most talented directors working today. I just think my concerns with him grew after seeing Star Trek Into Darkness. Not because I thought it was a poor film, I actually enjoyed it. But because it was so heavy with reference and nostalgia from previous Trek films/episodes. If Star Wars gets caught up in making "clever" references, i.e. "Sir, these ARE the droids you're looking for," ""Were can we get Power Converters on this planet?" "I hear the Toshi Station carries them!"" it's going to start feeling ham-fisted and shackled to the memory of the original. Hopefully, like Solidus noted, Kasdan will be there to reign in that tomfoolery.

I think I want this film *so* badly to do something new with the franchise and recreate the magic of the original trilogy...probably to the point that I'm compromising my ability to fully enjoy the finished product. At any rate, I fully acknowledge that things could be shaping up MUCH worse.

Thanks again for the informative and insightful discussion folks!

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:23 PM   #37
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To tell the truth Abrams knows how to deliver a good movie, but he lacks creativity and originality, his style is almost completelly trying to copy Spielberg.

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Old 01-22-2014, 02:06 PM   #38
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If you're gonna copy from someone, copy from the best I suppose.

I do think that he's a smart man who gets blindsided by a certain misguidedness. Though he's ten times better than directors like Zack Snyder and the like.

I think he's made a bunch of B+ movies and we're waiting for the A to arrive (Though his first Star Trek is close.)

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Old 01-23-2014, 05:12 AM   #39
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I see people arguing about JJ vs Arndt, but aren't we forgetting Kasdan here?

And, to answer the OP's question, if it's a well-handled transition from the OT to the ST cast, I'm more than all for it. I don't want an all-new cast meeting Han/Leia/Luke as parts of their "rod trip"/adventure, or as characters they have dinner with once every 45' or who are there as advisors.

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Old 01-25-2014, 08:26 AM   #40
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

Mark/Luke should be this new trilogies yoda.

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Old 01-25-2014, 11:05 AM   #41
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I don't think Luke ever had the potential to be as wise or skilled as Yoda.

I'd say Obi Wan is a better match.

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Old 01-25-2014, 11:45 AM   #42
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Well, a lot can happen in 30 years.

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Old 01-25-2014, 01:56 PM   #43
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Luke needs to be wise but do not change his personality. Don't make him stoic or boring; he needs to retain a certain boyish charm and curiosity (for an older man) that makes Luke interesting. That's why we like Luke. He's one of us.

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Old 01-25-2014, 02:01 PM   #44
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Luke needs to be wise but do not change his personality. Don't make him stoic or boring; he needs to retain a certain boyish charm and curiosity (for an older man) that makes Luke interesting. That's why we like Luke. He's one of us.
I disagree.

By ROTJ Luke had grown up alot. He was on his way to being a bad ass jedi.

He was no longer a farm boy/everyman.

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Old 01-25-2014, 02:24 PM   #45
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You're misunderstanding me or I didn't make it clear.

He needs to be wise, but there needs to be those little subtle LUKE moments that made us love his character in the first place. It won't be a constant thing.

At the same time, don't make him a boring man. Alec's Obi-Won still retain a certain amount of charm and curiosity that made his performance specula.

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Old 01-25-2014, 05:21 PM   #46
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You're misunderstanding me or I didn't make it clear.

He needs to be wise, but there needs to be those little subtle LUKE moments that made us love his character in the first place. It won't be a constant thing.

At the same time, don't make him a boring man. Alec's Obi-Won still retain a certain amount of charm and curiosity that made his performance specula.
Agreed

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Old 01-26-2014, 02:14 PM   #47
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

Luke by RotJ's finale proved to me that he absolutely had what it takes to be as wise as Yoda, with time. A skilled, however? Probably not.

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Old 01-26-2014, 06:35 PM   #48
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It's not easy to become as wise as Yoda.

Dude was a jedi for over 800 years.

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Old 01-26-2014, 09:28 PM   #49
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And Yoda wasn't "wise" enough to see things that were right in front of his face. Then again, that was the PT.

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Old 01-27-2014, 01:54 AM   #50
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Default Re: Should Fisher, Hamill, and Ford have major or minor roles?

Yoda was too blind to see what should've been done even in the OT. Luke did the right thing in the end, surpassing both Obi and Yoda in wisdom (for the time being, at least).

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