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Old 04-01-2014, 06:05 AM   #326
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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If that's true, then they don't do a good enough job getting that message across.

He completes the training, kills a bunch of ninjas, fights with the samurai, and ends up being the last survivor of the final battle, in a movie called "The Last Samurai".

I'll except that there may be a hidden/read between the lines message, but why does it have to be hidden?
I agree with you and understand what your saying. It's always the white man in the end of a Asian story. Look at the Last Airbender and look at the live movie version on AKIRA they tried to make. (Akira) Why would white people in the future have Japanese names? And if they had Japanese names, what names would Japanese people have. Hopefully these kind of things will end now that China is currently the #Box office(expected to be #1 by 2020) and Japan with the #3 market. USA is #1 in case anyone was wondering.

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Old 04-03-2014, 06:29 AM   #327
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Love this idea. I've always had a problem with Western heroes being the saviors of foreign lands in movies. Part of the reason why I disliked Tom Cruise's Last Samurai. The last samurai of Japan happens to be a Caucasian guy that learns the complexed art of Bushido in like 6 months?

Making Dr Strange Asian could make creative and business sense.
I also see asian superheroes needing to get a better chance to break down stereotypes. I believe that about all races, genders and orientations of course but we have at least seem some ass kicking African American superheroes but no Asians.

Who would you have in mind for strange?

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:48 AM   #328
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Psylocke and Jubilee were in X-Men movies for all of 5 minutes and I doubt Blink who is Asian in the upcoming film with have much screentime. Lady Deathstrike was cool.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:35 AM   #329
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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If that's true, then they don't do a good enough job getting that message across.

He completes the training, kills a bunch of ninjas, fights with the samurai, and ends up being the last survivor of the final battle, in a movie called "The Last Samurai".

I'll except that there may be a hidden/read between the lines message, but why does it have to be hidden?
Really, because I got the idea right away, and so did a lot of other people (I see this notion brought up a lot). There's no "hidden meaning," it's just subtle. It's there if you're looking for it, some people got it and some didn't. "Last" could very well mean "gone after death." I don't know why some people find that surprising.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:55 AM   #330
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Well, just so you know, most people don't pick up on subtle things in films, so the subtleties will be surprising, especially if it goes against common experience like movie title = main character unless it's not a name/title (but even then too sometimes). You can make a blog post called 'Movie Subtleties that will blow your mind!' and link to facebook and get a million hits. That's why it's not surprising to me, at least.

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:25 PM   #331
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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I also see asian superheroes needing to get a better chance to break down stereotypes. I believe that about all races, genders and orientations of course but we have at least seem some ass kicking African American superheroes but no Asians.

Who would you have in mind for strange?
Unfortunately Hollywood continues to white-wash. The lastest Michael Bay's TMNT Shredder. Very hard and sad for asian male actors for sure.

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:57 PM   #332
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

In The Shredder's case,white washing him may be to pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian villain in a predominantly "white" American film.

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Old 04-03-2014, 10:05 PM   #333
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In The Shredder's case,white washing him may be to pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian villain in a predominantly "white" American film.
"pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian"

So "White House Down" and "Olympus Has Fallen"...? Weather you want to admit or not. Hollywood white washes.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:23 PM   #334
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No, it's more simple than that. Shredder was Japanese in the older Turtles films. It's just that Michael Bay has all of the racial/ethnic/sexual subtlety of a sledgehammer to the nuts.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:52 PM   #335
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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In The Shredder's case,white washing him may be to pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian villain in a predominantly "white" American film.
Well, if the villain is white he'd be cast as white to be faithful to the source material, but if he's Asian he'd be recast as white so it won't be offensive to Asian countries? That doesn't make sense to me.

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Old 04-04-2014, 03:38 AM   #336
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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No, it's more simple than that. Shredder was Japanese in the older Turtles films. It's just that Michael Bay has all of the racial/ethnic/sexual subtlety of a sledgehammer to the nuts.
I use LOL in its most literal sense here. I find Bay hilarious. He would be both racist and a misogynist... if he wasn't so mind-numbingly stupid. I really think of him as the silly 13 year old that will look back at himself in 10-15 years and go "wow, I was dumb as a kid". Only Bay's perpetually stuck in the mindset of said silly 13 year old.

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:56 AM   #337
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Well, if the villain is white he'd be cast as white to be faithful to the source material, but if he's Asian he'd be recast as white so it won't be offensive to Asian countries? That doesn't make sense to me.
exactly

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:57 AM   #338
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I use LOL in its most literal sense here. I find Bay hilarious. He would be both racist and a misogynist... if he wasn't so mind-numbingly stupid. I really think of him as the silly 13 year old that will look back at himself in 10-15 years and go "wow, I was dumb as a kid". Only Bay's perpetually stuck in the mindset of said silly 13 year old.
childish yes

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Old 04-04-2014, 06:59 PM   #339
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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"pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian"

So "White House Down" and "Olympus Has Fallen"...? Weather you want to admit or not. Hollywood white washes.
You left out "Red Dawn"

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Old 04-04-2014, 07:03 PM   #340
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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In The Shredder's case,white washing him may be to pander to Asian countries whom they fear may be "offended" by an Asian villain in a predominantly "white" American film.
I made an entire thread about this subject in the TMNT forums. It seems that fi any people are going to be offended, it will be Asians, whom are once again being wiped away from American cinema and having character roles snatched out from under them. It happened with Dragon Ball Z, 21, The Last Airbender and now TMNT. Asian actors get very few roles even when they are objectively the most qualified for a given role based on the plot of a given script.

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Old 04-04-2014, 08:55 PM   #341
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

I'm still waiting to see promotions for Marvel's Big Hero 6. If they're willing to create new characters, who aren't the usual white suspects, then I hope they can do so in future live films.

The Days of Future Past film would be more interesting if Blink and Bishop were the lead characters.

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Old 04-05-2014, 05:56 AM   #342
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You left out "Red Dawn"
Thank you. I forgot as there are so many.

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Old 04-05-2014, 05:57 AM   #343
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I made an entire thread about this subject in the TMNT forums. It seems that fi any people are going to be offended, it will be Asians, whom are once again being wiped away from American cinema and having character roles snatched out from under them. It happened with Dragon Ball Z, 21, The Last Airbender and now TMNT. Asian actors get very few roles even when they are objectively the most qualified for a given role based on the plot of a given script.
Exactly

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Old 04-05-2014, 12:17 PM   #344
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Yeah... I think it's interesting the way the paradigm seems to be "white people" and "minorities" as though, there's a race called "minorities" or something.

Asians get it bad, like... Shredder is just the next guy in line after Ra's Al Ghul and The Mandarin. We'll the same thing for Ming the Merciless if they do Flash Gordon again. "Let's be sensitive and exclude others." Is a total crock, the real issue, as always, is money. You can sell more tickets to Guy Pearce/Ben Kingsley as Mandarin than you can Will Yun Lee/Ken Watanabe as Mandarin. Plus, Guy Pearce and Kingsley are more likely to get more and better work later, so now you're better connected for having hired them.

Somehow Hollywood ONLY wants martial arts movies from Asian leads (and not even much of that anymore). And not even modern martial arts movies. Jackie Chan gave it a great run, but the industry considered what he brought to the table B-movie material (outside of the Jet Li team up with a white lead). Jet Li wasn't down with that, it seems, and so now there's no one carrying that baton.

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Old 04-05-2014, 03:56 PM   #345
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Somehow Hollywood ONLY wants martial arts movies from Asian leads (and not even much of that anymore). And not even modern martial arts movies. Jackie Chan gave it a great run, but the industry considered what he brought to the table B-movie material (outside of the Jet Li team up with a white lead). Jet Li wasn't down with that, it seems, and so now there's no one carrying that baton.
You know, Jackie Chan only participates in Western films so that he can gross enough money to return to Hong Kong and produce the kinds of films he truly wishes to film. He finds the American production style to be at odds with pragmatism and direction. From Chan's perspective, Americans waste a lot of money on film production, and waste a lot of time on action sequences.

And you are correct. Asians are pretty much reserved for roles as perpetual foreigners, martial artists and nerds. And with the increase whitewashing of famed Asian characters that fill those roles, it seems that Asians aren't even given as many stereotypical roles these days.

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #346
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Well, if the villain is white he'd be cast as white to be faithful to the source material, but if he's Asian he'd be recast as white so it won't be offensive to Asian countries? That doesn't make sense to me.
I don't know why this is tough to understand.In Asian countries,they don't take kindly to the only Asian actor being the villain in an American film.That's what probably led Marvel to shy away from a traditional Mandarin.If the film doesn't play well overseas,less $$$= bad.

It's not just an Asian issue.I remember hearing how they couldn't shoot Temple of Doom in India,since the people in charge there were offended in Mola Ram being the film's mustache-twirling villain.Only,they didn't change the script,but wisely chose to film elsewhere.

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Old 04-05-2014, 05:18 PM   #347
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

It's true we need to stop portraying Asians as dangerous sterotypes that can't be trusted but to be fair I have seen quite a few mainland chinese films where the only Caucasian people who turn up play moustache twirling colonialists who yell things like "I only care for power and profit".

That's why it's essential we start breaking stereotypes now because we really need to work together, not just for all the usual reasons why breaking sterotypes are a good thing

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Old 04-05-2014, 08:37 PM   #348
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I don't know why this is tough to understand.In Asian countries,they don't take kindly to the only Asian actor being the villain in an American film.That's what probably led Marvel to shy away from a traditional Mandarin.If the film doesn't play well overseas,less $$$= bad.

It's not just an Asian issue.I remember hearing how they couldn't shoot Temple of Doom in India,since the people in charge there were offended in Mola Ram being the film's mustache-twirling villain.Only,they didn't change the script,but wisely chose to film elsewhere.
Because it's inconsistent. Whether faithfulness or sensitivity is more important seems to depend on which ends with casting a white actor.

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Old 04-05-2014, 09:12 PM   #349
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

I don't really understand how Shredder being Asian could offend, considering the Turtles themselves are practically Asian-Americans culturally (in-universe) being raised by a Japanese man and or rat.

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Old 04-06-2014, 07:04 AM   #350
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

LOOKS LIKE EAST ASIANS HAVE THIER OWN CREATED SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL AND WONDER WOMAN TYPE SUPERHEROES.
They are not waiting on the west to create them or more of them.
East asians are not helpless,they are doing what they need to do.


Here are some.
Darna






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darna




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darna_%282005_TV_Series%29


Darna vs. Black Darna 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_yMY8r7PI

A CAPTAIN MARVEL TYPE SUPERHERO
Captain Barbell





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Barbell




Captain Barbell Fights Putakti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j06oIH4ICB0













Another wonder woman type east asian superhero from east asia


ZsaZsa Zaturnnah






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsazsa_Zaturnnah



ZsaZsa Zaturnnah Full Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrAQ8-WzZ0w




I found out ABOUT them here.

Superheroes of asian origin

This is a list of Asian superheroes. ... a diverse but sometimes stereotypical sampling of characters of East Asian, Southeast Asian and South Asian descent.
List of Asian superheroes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



By the way native americans are of asian origin.Some folks forget that sometimes.

List of Native American superheroes - Wikipedia, the free ...


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