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Old 01-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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There is heat and praise for Douglass though...
There's praise for Jordan too.That's the point.No one is saying either is a "poor" actor.Just not suited for the particular role,given what the character looks like.

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Old 01-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #27
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There's praise for Jordan too.That's the point.No one is saying either is a "poor" actor.Just not suited for the particular role,given what the character looks like.
I have seen open mindedness for Jordon but haven't seen any praise but i'll take your word for it Torch.

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Old 01-16-2014, 03:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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There is heat and praise for Douglass though...
Which further shows the problem with Race. Changing age is more accepted than changing race, well that is to say changing race from white to something else is, when race is changed from something else to White it's rarely an issue.

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There's praise for Jordan too.That's the point.No one is saying either is a "poor" actor.Just not suited for the particular role,given what the character looks like.
True, there's been praise for his acting abilities and suitability for the role in regards to his talent. But it all comes back to his skin colour in the end.

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That's been a part of MS's problem too, is that a lot of their more multicultural characters are in the X-Men. And their most famous female characters as well.

But that also brings up another point: isn't DoFP minimizing Kitty's story in the original story and focusing more on Wolverine? Understanding that Wolvie is Fox's most profitble character, but that's still problematic minimization of Kitty Pryde.

Still, I am interested in seeing the X-Men movie though I have some issues with the prior ones.
It's 50/50 that and that there isn't a Kitty in 1973 to send her mind back into. Kinberg even said so.

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Old 01-16-2014, 03:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Bring on the Black Panther.

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Old 01-16-2014, 04:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Inhumans with Crystal as the lead, gimme them all. Hopefully Scarlet Witch develops into one of the main characters in Avengers, too.

That said, I wouldn't really want to see a Black Widow or War Machine movie any more than I'd like to see a Loki movie. Those would be spinoffs that would largely play in the same sandboxes that other Marvel franchises do. I think Marvel has been pretty good about picking properties that can clearly establish themselves as their own new thing, rather than climbing down the spinoff ladder where every film begins to feel derivative

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I have seen open mindedness for Jordon but haven't seen any praise but i'll take your word for it Torch.
Michael B. Jordan would be terrific as Human Torch and almost certainly the best thing about that movie. There, now you've seen some praise

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:14 PM   #31
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Stan Lee says Black Panther is going to happen. I see no reason not to believe Stan Lee because he's well....he's Stan Lee.

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Inhumans with Crystal as the lead, gimme them all. Hopefully Scarlet Witch develops into one of the main characters in Avengers, too.

That said, I wouldn't really want to see a Black Widow or War Machine movie any more than I'd like to see a Loki movie. Those would be spinoffs that would largely play in the same sandboxes that other Marvel franchises do. I think Marvel has been pretty good about picking properties that can clearly establish themselves as their own new thing, rather than climbing down the spinoff ladder where every film begins to feel derivative


Michael B. Jordan would be terrific as Human Torch and almost certainly the best thing about that movie. There, now you've seen some praise

Marvel has been hinting at a Loki or Thunderbolts film for Phase 4. Odds are that we'll see spin-offs around that time. I mean, we're all but confirmed to get Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Captain Marvel for Phase 3. My guess is that Punisher and Moon Knight are going to be on TV and the new properties on film will be Inhumans, Blade and Ghost Rider. Phase 5 is when the spin-offs hit.

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:20 PM   #33
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

While Black Panther isn't official yet, a key indicator on whether or not he shows up in Phase 3 is "Vibranium" and how much of it is used in Cap 2 and Avengers 2.

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

A Loki movie would be bad for Thor, imo.

Plenty seem to go to Thor movies for Loki, take him and put him in his own movie and they'll depart Thor.

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

A Loki spin-off movie seems unlikely. A one shot? That might work better.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

I'm sure Black Panther will show up as a major character at some point, even if it is in a film like Avengers as opposed to his own solo film.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Sony choosing to do Sinister Six over Black Cat, Spider-Woman or Silver Sable convinced me that they're scared of a female protagonist which is a shame.
I think Marvel has the rights to Spider-Woman, while Black Cat & Sable couldn't support their own movie.

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Old 01-17-2014, 09:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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I think Marvel has the rights to Spider-Woman
No one is quite sure if that is true or not Sony should almost certainly have the rights to the Ultimate version though.

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Old 01-17-2014, 10:12 AM   #39
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

I suspect that whatever obstacles might be in place, could be readily bypassed by just using the "Arachne" name instead. Which honestly sounds a lot better than "Spider-Woman" anyway.

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Old 01-17-2014, 02:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Of course, it's much cheaper to make Luke Cage, but don't count race out as a factor either. Think Like a Man sold to White Audiences because Turtle from Entourage was in the movie. Same thing for the Butler because the trailer showed Jane Fonda, Robin Williams and Alan Rickman (to name a few).
I think you are overselling how much white people love Turtle from Entourage. I'd say the reason people (of any race) went was probably Kevin Hart. People love Kevin Hart.

Also, while the white cast of The Butler did help (considering there were so many stars and great actors), I really don't think anyone went to see that based on "thank God! There's white people in it, too!"

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Old 01-18-2014, 01:48 AM   #41
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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No one is quite sure if that is true or not Sony should almost certainly have the rights to the Ultimate version though.
The original Jessica Drew was created so no one could trademark Spider-Woman before Marvel did and was not introduced in a Spider-Man mag and does not belong to the Spider-Man family and she always had more to do with Hydra and SHIELD.

Thing is there was Julia Carpenter and Mattie Franklin that have sported the name and have either debuted in the pages of a Spider-Mag or are much more closely linked to Parker.

To make things worse the Ultimate version of Spider-Woman is also called Jessica Drew and is a clone of Parker.

Marvel Studios could make it but there could be legal hassle, but ultimately they'd win and it be a big payoff for the fans.

Hope they take the plunge.

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Old 01-18-2014, 02:41 AM   #42
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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I think Marvel has the rights to Spider-Woman, while Black Cat & Sable couldn't support their own movie.
A Silver Sable & Black Cat team-up movie could be cool.

Sable wants to prove herself as every bit as good as the men in her crime family business, she teams up with Jewel thief Black Cat too steal a big payday and win respect

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Old 01-18-2014, 08:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

I think I've posted about this topic somewhere on this site before, but it could have been elsewhere. I'll try to be as brief as possible.

My general preference is that filmmakers remain true to the source material when casting actors for a film. There are exceptions, but that is usually my preference. That's also my preference in the source material itself.

I'm African-American, so I will speak specifically to the practice of altering characters to appeal to someone like me. Personally, I don't want a Black Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, Captain America or Iron Man on screen or in the comics. I want filmmakers, comic book publishers and animators to make me care about Black characters that already exist, and I want them to continue to create new Black characters. Help me to become even more invested in Black Lightning, Vixen, Monica Rambeau, Falcon, Bumblebee and Static. Make me care more about Cloak, Icon, Luke Cage, Blue Marvel, Mal Duncan, Falcon, Misty Knight, etc.

I'm not saying Michael B. Jordan wouldn't be good as Johnny Storm. He's a talented actor...I'm sure he'd be great. I'm not saying that Samuel L. Jackson, Kerry Washington, Michael Clarke Duncan and Laurence Fishburne didn't do well as Nick Fury, Alicia Masters, Kingpin and Perry White. Again, tremendous actors...of course they were awesome. I'm just saying that even though the end results of these decisions generally work out very well, I'd still prefer to see these characters portrayed as they were originally intended by their creators.

My desire is not "hey, we need to diversify the Avengers in future films, so let's cast a Black woman as Wasp!" My desire is for Marvel Comics and animation to make someone like Monica Rambeau so undeniably awesome that the directors/writers of future MCU films think to themselves "what an amazing character...how could we not include her?"

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Old 01-18-2014, 09:33 AM   #44
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Great post. Really we'll written

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Old 01-18-2014, 09:45 AM   #45
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

Django Unchained made 425 million worldwide.

Now please explain why a superhero who's a mix of Thor and Iron man couldn't make as much as a slavery movie.

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Old 01-18-2014, 09:49 AM   #46
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I think a Ms. Marvel movie also has alot of potential.

I'm hoping Ms. Marvel and BP both get phase 3 movies.

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Old 01-18-2014, 11:10 AM   #47
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Django Unchained made 425 million worldwide.

Now please explain why a superhero who's a mix of Thor and Iron man couldn't make as much as a slavery movie.
Its not quite the same thing. Tarantino is a brand on his own. Any film he makes is going to have a certain degree of success. Plus that movie had a lot of awards buzz not to mention a completely villainous DiCaprio, which was something people hadnt seen before.

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Old 01-18-2014, 11:47 AM   #48
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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Its not quite the same thing. Tarantino is a brand on his own. Any film he makes is going to have a certain degree of success. Plus that movie had a lot of awards buzz not to mention a completely villainous DiCaprio, which was something people hadnt seen before.
I agree. It took me a while to even figure out what that other post was even about (assuming Black Panther), but like you said, Django had Tarantino and DiCaprio like you said, as well as Jamie Foxx (Oscar winner with large fan base), Kerry Washington (huge TV star, not sure how popular her show was at that point), and Christoph Waltz (Oscar winner and most people's favorite part of Tarantino's previous film). So Django was really more of a revenge/western/action movie with tons if star power, as opposed to a "slavery movie".

That being said, with the right lead actor and director, there really is no reason that Black Panther shouldn't be able to make 400 million+ worldwide. While it might not have everything going for it that Django had, it would have the Marvel label, a wider audience (includes little kids as opposed to rated R Django), and most likely a lot of 3D revenue.

So while the statement about how much money Black Panther could make may be true, the comparison to "slavery movie" Django Unchained doesn't really work, imo.

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Old 01-18-2014, 12:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

If the script is right and there is a message in it that he might feel is worth telling, I can actually see McQueen directing Black Panther.
And since MS has a history of approaching actors during award season (like RDJ infamously stalking Mickey Rourke during award season 09) I have a hunch they would do that with directors too if they feel they want a specific one. they even might talk to him right now before he gets the Academy Award

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Old 01-18-2014, 10:52 PM   #50
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Default Re: Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

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I think I've posted about this topic somewhere on this site before, but it could have been elsewhere. I'll try to be as brief as possible.

My general preference is that filmmakers remain true to the source material when casting actors for a film. There are exceptions, but that is usually my preference. That's also my preference in the source material itself.

I'm African-American, so I will speak specifically to the practice of altering characters to appeal to someone like me. Personally, I don't want a Black Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, Captain America or Iron Man on screen or in the comics. I want filmmakers, comic book publishers and animators to make me care about Black characters that already exist, and I want them to continue to create new Black characters. Help me to become even more invested in Black Lightning, Vixen, Monica Rambeau, Falcon, Bumblebee and Static. Make me care more about Cloak, Icon, Luke Cage, Blue Marvel, Mal Duncan, Falcon, Misty Knight, etc.

I'm not saying Michael B. Jordan wouldn't be good as Johnny Storm. He's a talented actor...I'm sure he'd be great. I'm not saying that Samuel L. Jackson, Kerry Washington, Michael Clarke Duncan and Laurence Fishburne didn't do well as Nick Fury, Alicia Masters, Kingpin and Perry White. Again, tremendous actors...of course they were awesome. I'm just saying that even though the end results of these decisions generally work out very well, I'd still prefer to see these characters portrayed as they were originally intended by their creators.

My desire is not "hey, we need to diversify the Avengers in future films, so let's cast a Black woman as Wasp!" My desire is for Marvel Comics and animation to make someone like Monica Rambeau so undeniably awesome that the directors/writers of future MCU films think to themselves "what an amazing character...how could we not include her?"

Very well said, wish more people thought the same. As far as people wanting more diversity in the avengers, it's coming. Marvel has been doing a great job of introducing and building this big world full of all sorts of characters. War Machine, Falcon, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Sif, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Wasp, Agent 13, Peggy Carter, Agent May, Skye, Victoria Hand, Pepper Potts, Frigga, Jane Foster, Kurse, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Betty Ross, heimdall, Hogun, Gamora, and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Now before anyone says yeah but none of them were the main star of the movie. Let's look at who has been main stars of solos.
Thor
Ironman
Captain America
Hulk
Their is a good reason too. They are by far the 4 most popular characters that marvel has the rights too. Do naturally they would get first priority. They paved the way for us. Gotta build a foundation before you put up walls. I have no doubt in my mind that Ant-man, Dr. Strange, Black Panther, and Ms Marvel are all going to be the next solos introduced. Add a possible Inhumans and future Defenders series to the mix and I'd say the MCU is filling up with all kinds of diversity. I know waiting is tough but just imagine what they have already done and what the future obviously holds. Trust Marvel, Trust the System, and please keep the faith true believers!

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