Should Batman be portrayed as a Protagonist or Antagonist in this film?

[herolee10]

Well, I thought this topic personally deserved a thread of its own to discuss about.

So in light of Snyder's newest interview, regarding on how the idea of Batman being in this film came up when he was trying to figure out on who Superman should face after General Zod, I've wondered as to whether in this new take of the character, we should see Batman portrayed as more of an antagonist within the story.

We know that Ben's Batman will be a seasoned crime-fighter, but one who is also weary.

Some, like myself, have theorized that it'll be by his encounter with Superman, that even helps Batman gain a renewed spirit in his crusade against injustice and such.

So my question to everyone here is if people think on whether Batman, in this film, should be portrayed as a antagonist or protagonist in the story? Or maybe both? Ala, in the same way that Magneto was portrayed in "First Class". It would certainly be a new way of presenting the character on the big screen, and bring a new twist to "The Dark Knight Returns" qualities that Snyder had mentioned that he wants to take some liberties from.


Thoughts?

[I Am The Knight]

Define antagonist in the context of this movie?

[tacit-ronin-]

I think that he should be portrayed as first being a antagonist with lex being a genuine good guy. as the movie advances lex becomes more of a villain and bruce is on superman's side.

[113]

Antagonist. I like the idea of Bruce and Lex teaming up to rebuild Metropolis and treating Superman publicly, and privately, as a threat. But the film should still be from Supes perspective. Then we gradually see Bruce start to side with Clark over Lex, leaving Lex as the only antagonist by the end of the film.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by I Am The Knight

Define antagonist in the context of this movie?

Well I've been using this case as an example for months, but basically, he'd be to Superman on what "The Rock" was to Vin Diesal's character in "Fast Five".

And another example would be like what Karl Urban's character was to Bruce Willis's character in "Red".

So basically, not a "villain" for the story, but certainly not a friend or ally for a majority of the film.

Batman would be after Superman for a majority of the film, causing him problems along the way, and it's only after a climactic showdown of some sort, mixed in with some heroic deed and big realization, that Batman decides not to see Superman as the enemy..

[InJustice]

Someone here had the genius idea to make Superman the antagonist (in the sense that heroes and the world are against him), but unfortunately, the creative team won't have that much cajones to pull it off.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by InJustice

Someone here had the genius idea to make Superman the antagonist (in the sense that heroes and the world are against him), but unfortunately, the creative team won't have that much cajones to pull it off.

I remember reading about that as well, especially when people really thought that the Flash would be in this film as well.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind seeing a "passing of the torch" scenario involving Batman and Superman.

I mean since Batman started his career, supposedly a lot earlier, than Superman did, it wouldn't be hard to believe that maybe Bruce (at one time) thought that helping the world was all on his shoulders and his burden.

But after so many years of fighting against Crime and producing less than desirable results, he grows to feel disheartened about his whole crusade.

So it's only after his encounter and experiences with Superman, where he ends up feeling that he's not along in his efforts and that should anything happen to him (Bruce), he knows that he can trust Superman to still be around and protect the Earth in ways he couldn't.

[113]

Originally Posted by InJustice

Someone here had the genius idea to make Superman the antagonist (in the sense that heroes and the world are against him), but unfortunately, the creative team won't have that much cajones to pull it off.

Well I do think the world will somewhat be against him at first. At least I could see public opinion being split 50/50 mimicking the fan reaction to the first film. All the arguments that we've had about MoS could be exactly what characters in the film argue about (killing Zod, destroying parts of Metropolis, civilian deaths, etc...)

But I think/hope that even though public opinion will be probably be mixed, that the film is still told from Clark's perspective that way he's never shown as an antagonist.

[I Am The Knight]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Well I've been using this case as an example for months, but basically, he'd be to Superman on what "The Rock" was to Vin Diesal's character in "Fast Five".

And another example would be like what Karl Urban's character was to Bruce Willis's character in "Red".

So basically, not a "villain" for the story, but certainly not a friend or ally for a majority of the film.

Batman would be after Superman for a majority of the film, causing him problems along the way, and it's only after a climactic showdown of some sort, mixed in with some heroic deed and big realization, that Batman decides not to see Superman as the enemy..

Damn, I haven't seen any of those films, LOL.

OK, so you mean kinda like the role Hardy and the military played in MOS? Hmmm, I just don't see them being "enemies" for too long, Batman and Superman. I mean, I have to assume that some time will have passed between the ending of MOS and the start of BvS, so the public should be aware of Superman' s heroic deeds like stopping bank robberies or what have you. Bats realizes that Superman is a good guy but he doesn't fully trust him because of the alien invasion. However, they are forced together and the story goes from there....The only way I can see Bats being an antagonist for an extended period of time is if they depict him as an extremely paranoid psycho who would rather the alien went home, but that's a little too close to Luthor...

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by tacit-ronin-

I think that he should be portrayed as first being a antagonist with lex being a genuine good guy. as the movie advances lex becomes more of a villain and bruce is on superman's side.

I like this idea as well. I would actually like for Superman to kind of respect what he thinks Lex is and Batman as more of the threat, and then as the film goes on the positions switch and Bruce is the one he begins to respect and Lex's true colors show.

[Masone]

Originally Posted by InJustice

Someone here had the genius idea to make Superman the antagonist (in the sense that heroes and the world are against him), but unfortunately, the creative team won't have that much cajones to pull it off.

I don't like this idea. I don't like when something is portrayed one way when the audience knows it's the other way. Like a person being framed and every other character thinking that person did it, but the audience knows that person didn't do it because they already showed us the real killer. The story becomes frustrating and the characters come off as stupid.

In that scenario, Superman is portrayed as the antagonist and the other heroes and the world are against him, but we the audience know Superman ain't a damn antagonist. The story becomes predictable and frustrating and the other characters come off a stupid for not knowing something the audience knows.

I think you can only pull that off when there is a degree of ignorance shared between both the audience and the characters. Is he the real killer? Is he really the villain? Is he really behind everything? Both the audience and the characters need to be having those types of questions swirl in their minds to pull that off.

[TheFlamingCoco]

Originally Posted by 113

Well I do think the world will somewhat be against him at first. At least I could see public opinion being split 50/50 mimicking the fan reaction to the first film. All the arguments that we've had about MoS could be exactly what characters in the film argue about (killing Zod, destroying parts of Metropolis, civilian deaths, etc...)

But I think/hope that even though public opinion will be probably be mixed, that the film is still told from Clark's perspective that way he's never shown as an antagonist.

That sounds like a good idea..I like the idea of showing Clark's battle over the guilt of the events in MOS contrasted with the lightheartedness of the Metropolis ensemble INCLUDING Jimmy Olsen.

I hope that Lex Luthor creates a robot army for Wonder Woman to stop or something.

[Chip Chipperson]

Antagonist in the beginning, then once he finds out whats really going on, him and clark finally team up.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by I Am The Knight

Damn, I haven't seen any of those films, LOL.

OK, so you mean kinda like the role Hardy and the military played in MOS? Hmmm, I just don't see them being "enemies" for too long, Batman and Superman. I mean, I have to assume that some time will have passed between the ending of MOS and the start of BvS, so the public should be aware of Superman' s heroic deeds like stopping bank robberies or what have you. Bats realizes that Superman is a good guy but he doesn't fully trust him because of the alien invasion. However, they are forced together and the story goes from there....The only way I can see Bats being an antagonist for an extended period of time is if they depict him as an extremely paranoid psycho who would rather the alien went home, but that's a little too close to Luthor...

lol; true, though this film could be a case where we see a take on Batman that starts out being a figure that's become so weary from fighting, that he's pretty much lost his way and is growing dangerously close of becoming what Lex has already become.

It's possible that Lex may even orchestrate something that would make Superman look like he was the bad guy by framing him for something, which convinces everyone, including Batman (somewhat) that Superman is a problem.

Plus, being paranoid has always been Batman's thing.

[Mysteryman]

Originally Posted by Chip Chipperson

Antagonist in the beginning, then once he finds out whats really going on, him and clark finally team up.

I have no doubt that this is how it will go down.

[Chip Chipperson]

Originally Posted by Mysteryman

I have no doubt that this is how it will go down.

its really the only way they can do it.

[I Am The Knight]

Originally Posted by herolee10

lol; true, though this film could be a case where we see a take on Batman that starts out being a figure that's become so weary from fighting, that he's pretty much lost his way and is growing dangerously close of becoming what Lex has already become.

It's possible that Lex may even orchestrate something that would make Superman look like he was the bad guy by framing him for something, which convinces everyone, including Batman (somewhat) that Superman is a problem.

Plus, being paranoid has always been Batman's thing.

Well, I just hope Batman is not portrayed as a jerk, but that might be the idea, at least at the beginning. Frankly I don't care about these two being rivals so I hope the "versus" stuff is resolved halfway through the movie

[I Am The Knight]

Double post

[herolee10]

Batman could very well be the "Winter Soldier" character of this film, minus the mass carnage of bodies that the character killed in TWS of course.lol

[AnneFan]

Originally Posted by 113

Antagonist. I like the idea of Bruce and Lex teaming up to rebuild Metropolis and treating Superman publicly, and privately, as a threat. But the film should still be from Supes perspective. Then we gradually see Bruce start to side with Clark over Lex, leaving Lex as the only antagonist by the end of the film.

This.

[The Guard]

Why would Batman be a direct antagonist within the context of the film itself?

That makes little to no sense.

Some conflict between he and Superman, sure. They'd both see each other as antagonists. But Batman being an actual antagonist? Not so much.

[bluerayer]

Remember, there has to be a reason for Batman/Bruce wayne to even be in Metropolis. My guess is that Lex Luthor brings Bruce Wayne there, probably to help with rebuilding the city. I don't think Superman is going to Gotham.

[bluerayer]

Although i could be wrong about that last one. Cavill went to Detroit, right? Isn't that speculated to be Gotham?

[MrsKent26]

I think it would be interesting to have him as an antagonist for the first bit, but I don't think the film will necessarily be from superman's perspective. In that case, either of them could be an antagonist until they put aside their differences.

[bluerayer]

What if Superman is the Protagonist and Antagonist? Lex Luthor could be doing his smear-campaign against Superman and Batman/Bruce Wayne could believe him at first.