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Old 03-10-2014, 01:46 PM   #501
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Oh really?







Even the smallest criticism or knock at the movie causes you to go in a foaming frenzy. These last few pages are no different.

Look at that, "awesome", "perfect". You're like the antithesis of me with opinion but have the same style of retorts. If I was considered a troll, then what are you doing to posters here? You just can't stop.
Fine, if it makes you feel better, you're not a troll milost, i was mistaken.

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Old 03-11-2014, 05:33 AM   #502
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I think what is so great about TDKR ending is that so many people have different takes on it. Not all of them I agree with but I think in some ways that's what Nolan wanted, as with so many endings for his other films. Some people at my work actually think that batman is gonna come back and Blake is gonna be his robin and others think he is dead and that what Alfred saw was wishful thinking. I myself prefer the fact that he was finally able to try and have a life of his own outside of Gotham. This is what Bruce wanted even from the beginning to be able to take Gotham back from the corrupt which he did in TDK, but he didn't realise how much he still needed batman because he had made it such a big part of his life that when it was over he didn't have anyone but Alfred waiting for him, and couldn't be his true self with anyone else because he never had been before except Alfred and Rachel.

With gotham saved at the end of TDKR and him finding someone who he can be himself with and having left Gotham in safe hands with people willing to fight for their city. I don't have the same problems that some of you do with Blake being left to be batman because how see it just because it isn't shown in the film doesn't mean that instructions aren't left for him to meet Bruce abroad and train. Also the complaints about him needing psychological help to stop being Batman well how I see it is like Alf tells it. Bruce can live without Gotham it's Batman who can't but with no crime he is just a man stick in a cave waiting for trouble which there won't be any for a while as Gotham was just saved with all Banes men killed or imprisoned. Bruce did what he set out to do he saved Gotham and inspired the people (the police and Blake). Then he managed to find someone else to try and live his life with without Gotham. That's just how I saw it everyone open to their own views. Sorry for the rant

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Old 03-11-2014, 11:32 AM   #503
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Ive thought about that recently. The idea of Bruce taking a little break with Selina, some happiness in his life for once, while Blake keeps an eye on Gotham. While the city rebuilds their bridges, and cops (maybe Blake as well) round up some of the prisoners. Then Bruce returns as an underground Batman with Blake as his Nightwing/Oracle.

If people can interpret the ending as him moving on completely while passing the torch, or Batman really dying but Alfred sees it as a dream. Then people should be able to interpret the end as Blake aka Robin becoming Nightwing until Bruce returns as his "boss".

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Old 03-11-2014, 01:17 PM   #504
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I just would like to say that I loved TDKR for what it is and even I can take the criticisms people bring up. I don't ever feel the need to beat someone over the head with my thoughts of any movie.


...except for B&R.
Yeah, as someone who loves Spider-Man 3, likes GL (though admits its faults), loves the Mandarin thing in IM3...you get used to people hating what you like.

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Old 03-14-2014, 02:03 AM   #505
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Ive thought about that recently. The idea of Bruce taking a little break with Selina, some happiness in his life for once, while Blake keeps an eye on Gotham. While the city rebuilds their bridges, and cops (maybe Blake as well) round up some of the prisoners. Then Bruce returns as an underground Batman with Blake as his Nightwing/Oracle.

If people can interpret the ending as him moving on completely while passing the torch, or Batman really dying but Alfred sees it as a dream. Then people should be able to interpret the end as Blake aka Robin becoming Nightwing until Bruce returns as his "boss".
Yeah. Sorry but that's not what the ending is. Bruce has moved on. Thats it. Not coming back as batman.

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Old 03-14-2014, 09:05 AM   #506
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I know it's not, i agree with you. But people can interpret it the way they want. That's what painting, film, music, is for. Sometimes it's not even about the artist himself/herself or what they think.

We both have a similar way of interpreting it, but it could be different for other people.

It's all good.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:24 AM   #507
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I know it's not, i agree with you. But people can interpret it the way they want. That's what painting, film, music, is for. Sometimes it's not even about the artist himself/herself or what they think.

We both have a similar way of interpreting it, but it could be different for other people.

It's all good.
It's all good mate. I hope thats what Nolan and co were going for.
I just think Nolan understood what he had his hands on. That he could tell a complete story about Bruce Wayne on film.
Who will have that chance again???
Granted we didn't get film after film with batman vs more villains but a journey of a man conflicted with himself and his city.
We can imagine the story's after Bruce's departure from batman and gotham. Its very cool the way they finished the trilogy with Robin because it really does close off Bruce's journey in Gotham.
The whole idea of batman is for Bruce to get Gotham back to a time when the police are fighting for their city. He did that but also didn't abandon it because of Robin Blake.

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Old 03-16-2014, 09:17 AM   #508
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It's all good mate. I hope thats what Nolan and co were going for.
I just think Nolan understood what he had his hands on. That he could tell a complete story about Bruce Wayne on film.
Who will have that chance again???
Granted we didn't get film after film with batman vs more villains but a journey of a man conflicted with himself and his city.
We can imagine the story's after Bruce's departure from batman and gotham. Its very cool the way they finished the trilogy with Robin because it really does close off Bruce's journey in Gotham.
The whole idea of batman is for Bruce to get Gotham back to a time when the police are fighting for their city. He did that but also didn't abandon it because of Robin Blake.

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Old 03-17-2014, 08:03 AM   #509
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^ Co-signed.

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Old 03-21-2014, 04:31 PM   #510
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I have to see TDKR again and see how my feelings are on it. For what it's worth I personallt like it but I am not sure about it's quality.

It has one of my favourite moments in a CBM though, the scene where Alfred leaves Bruce. In my opinion one of the ways to make a fantastic film based on a hero, particularly in a secret identity one is to feel the weight of the suit. You really feel the emotional strain of being Batman, particularly the relationship between Bruce and Alfred.

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Old 03-21-2014, 04:35 PM   #511
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Any time someone comes in here and says right, you make sure you pop in and say left. Someone states a criticism, you come in with the compulsion of stating why it's "awesome". You're essentially doing the same thing you accused me of doing. I thought it was getting old for you? I thought you didn't want to go in circular arguments? Yet, here you are, going on and on about the same issues again and again and again.

So what, only love, praise and positivity should be in this section? Is that what you want? That doesn't seem very fair. How come you feel it's "wrong" to hate or criticize this thing but you can go around with your love and praise?


Edit:

Posts in a community forum is my business. Especially when you accused me of doing something that you're clearly doing.
Nice to see you again dude! I thought you had given up the hype and wouldn't return for 8 years?

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Old 03-21-2014, 07:51 PM   #512
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The Dark Knight Rises was absolutely amazing.

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Old 03-22-2014, 05:25 PM   #513
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Who's going to train Blake to the high standard Bruce expects of Batman? He had no valid reason to believe Blake was the right man for the job. Just because he heard his back story and it was similar to his? There's people all over the world in similar positions. Doesn't make them Batman material.




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Old 03-22-2014, 05:28 PM   #514
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Show us where Bruce talks about leaving Batman's mantle to someone else in the previous movies, or even anywhere in TDKR, and then you'll see it.
dent : "batman is looking for someone to take up his mantle"

and look at bruce's facial expression when Dent says that; you can tell he is considering it


As someone mentioned in this thread, not everything is explained with words in the trilogy

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Old 03-22-2014, 05:48 PM   #515
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"Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in Batman Begins, where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, he’s more than that. He’s a symbol, and the symbol lives on.
" - Nolan

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Old 03-22-2014, 05:49 PM   #516
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"training is nothing; will is everything"
They're the words of Ra's Al Ghul. The villain. Not Bruce. Should we quote Ra's saying if someone stands in the way of true justice you should walk up behind them and stab them in the heart as being truth, too?

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dent : "batman is looking for someone to take up his mantle" and look at bruce's facial expression when Dent says that; you can tell he is considering it
You completely misconstrued that scene. He's talking about someone being a better symbol of hope and hero than Batman is. That's what the look on Bruce's face is. He sees Harvey as a hero, someone who doesn't hide behind a mask, a hero with a face, to take up the job of Gotham's true hero. Not someone who will inherit his Batman persona.

He says it himself several times. "You're the symbol of hope I can never be", "Gotham needs it's true hero", "Remember that day I once told you about when Gotham would no longer need Batman? It's happening now. Harvey is that hero. He locked up half of the city's criminals and he did it without wearing a mask. Gotham needs a hero with a face"

Where did you get from that he meant handing over his cape and cowl to Dent?

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As someone mentioned in this thread, not everything is explained with words in the trilogy
And yet this was. Several times. I just listed the quotes for you. Couldn't have been made more clear.

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Old 03-22-2014, 05:57 PM   #517
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Where did you get from that he meant handing over his cape and cowl to Dent?


Yes i'm aware that Bruce wanted a hero without a face, in this case Dent.

But then Dent became a criminal, so he needed another candidate after that.

Preferably someone who is incorruptible and who would wear a mask, to protect the people he cares about.


And look at how Bruce looks at Robin leaving Wayne Manor, even when Alfred walks away, he is still looking at Blake
Sure it may be my own interpretation, but you can tell the idea of having Blake as the next Batman is already brewing in Bruce's head


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Old 03-22-2014, 06:01 PM   #518
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What Blake will do from that point on is a story that was not told in the movie. You´re supposed to come up with your own answers to the questions you might have about that. If Nolan wanted to give up details and a definitive answer, he would have.

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:03 PM   #519
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Yes i'm aware that Bruce wanted a hero without a face, in this case Dent.

But then Dent became a criminal, so he needed another candidate after that.

Preferably someone who is inorruptible and who would wear a mask, to protect the people he cares about.
No he didn't. Because he covered it up by taking the blame for Dent's crimes, and the city prospered for 8 years on Dent's legacy.

Then at the end of TDKR, Batman becomes their hero and symbol of hope by dying while saving their city, and they even erect a statue in his honor. He essentially becomes their new Harvey Dent. The hero who stood up to save their city and died.

So explain to me why he needed to leave his Batman mantle to someone else.

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And look at how Bruce looks at Robin leaving Wayne Manor, even when Alfred walks away, he is still looking at Blake
Of course he's staring at him. Some stranger just walked into his house and portrayed amazing psychic ability by telling him he knew he was Batman based off a look on his face. I'd be staring at someone like that, too.

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Sure it may be my own interpretation, but you can tell the idea of having Blake as the next Batman is already brewing in Bruce's head
Even if you're right, so what? At that point in the movie Gotham didn't need a Batman remember? Dent was their hero. So why would he be grooming someone else in his mind as a potential future Batman?

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:09 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by Just_Human View Post
Yes i'm aware that Bruce wanted a hero without a face, in this case Dent.

But then Dent became a criminal, so he needed another candidate after that.

Preferably someone who is incorruptible and who would wear a mask, to protect the people he cares about.


And look at how Bruce looks at Robin leaving Wayne Manor, even when Alfred walks away, he is still looking at Blake
Sure it may be my own interpretation, but you can tell the idea of having Blake as the next Batman is already brewing in Bruce's head
Bruce sees himself in Blake and that comes across in that first meeting like you say. About the whole hero with a mask thing Blake is a hero without a mask its Bruce persuading him to wear one

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:14 PM   #521
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So explain to me why he needed to leave his Batman mantle to someone else.


Because someone else showed the courage and the will to stand against injustice, and he decided that would probably the right person to inherit his resources.

"If you're working alone, wear a mask."

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:18 PM   #522
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Because someone else showed the courage and the will to stand against injustice, and he decided that would probably the right person to inherit his resources.

"If you're working alone, wear a mask."
He's a Cop. It's his job. In that case Gordon and the rest of the Cops should all be Batman, too, since they all showed courage and the will to stand against injustice.

Rachel would have been an excellent Batgirl

The worst thing about Blake was he did NOTHING to prove he was the best candidate for the job. Just because he recognized similar emotional pain in Bruce doesn't make him the best man for Batman. At least when Bruce was considering Dent to be the real hero for Gotham over Batman, he made Dent prove himself first by giving him Lau and seeing could Dent get him to talk and get all those criminals locked up.

What did Blake do that proved he was undoubtedly the guy to get the Batman mantle? Not a darn thing. Even in the big climax the other Cops, Gordon, and Selina did more to help by taking on Bane and his mercenaries, and neutralizing the bomb temporarily. All Blake did was play babysitter to the orphans.

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:33 PM   #523
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If you're not getting paid for it, it's no longer your "job". The cops, including Blake in that scene, are standing up because they want to. It has nothing to do with their work or career anymore. Blake has the same spirit that Bruce had minus the training. Because of his short, but impactful moments that he shared with Bruce...he becomes the man to get that mantle.

It's not about how long he knew him, it's about the feeling you get from a person and their stories. He saw that Blake was a pretty damn straightforward guy. We see that throughout the movie even with his scenes involving Gordon. He wears his heart on his sleeve and Bruce can see the intention.

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:37 PM   #524
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If you're not getting paid for it, it's no longer your "job". The cops, including Blake in that scene, are standing up because they want to. It has nothing to do with their work or career anymore. Blake has the same spirit that Bruce had minus the training. Because of his short, but impactful moments that he shared with Bruce...he becomes the man to get that mantle.
Secret Op's guy: "Men who haven't seen daylight in three months?"
Blake: "Police Officers who haven't seen daylight in three months"

Why do you think Blake emphasized they were Cops? Because they were needed for their duty to help save the city.

They were still Cops doing their job. Just because their official pay packet was cut off along with the rest of the world doesn't mean they gave up their duty in Gotham.

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It's not about how long he knew him, it's about the feeling you get from a person and their stories.
Felt it in his bones and stuff did he?

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He saw that Blake was a pretty damn straightforward guy. We see that throughout the movie even with his scenes involving Gordon. He wears his heart on his sleeve and Bruce can see the intention.
He saw nothing other than a Cop who miraculously recognized him based on a look on his face, and shared a similar emotional pain to him. That doesn't make someone Batman material. Even if you think it does, then you make sure you're right by testing them first to make sure they're up to the job, like he did with Dent.

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Old 03-22-2014, 06:44 PM   #525
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Secret Op's guy: "Men who haven't seen daylight in three months?"
Blake: "Police Officers who haven't seen daylight in three months"

Why do you think Blake emphasized they were Cops? Because they were needed for their duty to help save the city.

They were still Cops doing their job. Just because their official pay packet was cut off along with the rest of the world doesn't mean they gave up their duty in Gotham.
Duty, sure. In their hearts it's their duty. But it's no longer a job. They're not getting paid, so it's no job. Blake says police officers only because that's simply what they are. Blake was one himself, so he gets defensive and a bit mouthy with the guy about it. They're not a bunch of jabronis who dont know how to use a gun in a shootout if push comes to shove, that's why he says they're police officers. They're needed in that situation.

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"Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in Batman Begins, where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, he’s more than that. He’s a symbol, and the symbol lives on.
" - Nolan
Yup.

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