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#676 |
WE are Groot
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,256
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It's not the concept or idea, it's the execution.
As much as i think it goes against the core essence of the character, i wouldn't mind seeing an adaptation of Bruce Wayne hanging up the cowl. But for me, the execution was terrible. For the reasons already stated. The idea of him retiring as an active Batman, but still sticking around to carry on his crusade by training, funding and acting like a surrogate father figure to Blake would have been sooooooooooooo much better. It would have been great thematically, with Bruce coming full circle and becoming what Ra's was to him, but with his own righteous methods. A happy ending where we can use our imaginations or WB can further explore the Batman Beyond idea. Plus just a great nod to the source material that made Batman worthy of the big screen in the first place. The ending we got goes beyond contradicting the source material. It's simply bad story telling. Especially in regards to the Blake character.
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People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes
Last edited by The Endless; 03-27-2014 at 10:34 AM. |
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#677 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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Bruce choosing to move on in some way, is not only his greatest accomplishment but so is making Batman a symbol that can last generations instead of dying with him. Bruce moving on, is his strongest moment. Him not moving on once he gets older, when he's barely able to continue as the batman, is a very weak way to approach Bruce Wayne. It makes him incredibly weak, i dont care how strong you are physically, at the end of the day it means **** all if your spirit remains broken. That's what he was during the 8 year hiatus from Batman, a weak man inside and out. He gets physically stronger as well as spiritually by the end of the movie..and that is a part of the arc of the character throughout the film and the trilogy.
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#678 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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What was stupid was to talk so much about how Batman was an endless symbol that could endure what no person would... just to make people believe that he died. |
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#679 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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It was interesting to me. Obvious? Nobody was really expecting that kind of ending. Everyone expected Batman on a rooftop or Batman to die.
Killing him off completely, sounds like something you do just to shock an audience. It's lazy. Promoting the movie as a conclusion to Bruce's journey as Batman, then ending it where he's still Batman like every other Batman in the history of film (especially for the next century)..THAT is the least interesting thing i can think of. |
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#680 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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The ideal thing to me would have been Bruce Wayne dying but Batman living on through Blake. Quote:
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#681 |
Harvey Dent
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Courtroom
Posts: 48,170
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Well when I saw the Bruce Wayne's grave I thought he died with Alfred blaming himself. Seeing Bruce with Selina left a good feeling for me.
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#682 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 29,364
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He essentially reached that point "early" in his 30s in the Nolan story when he was wasting away for at least three years (he'd only been a recluse for three years, which many people seem to miss). Instead of doing that, except now with a successor/protege/heir/whatever, he was able to let go of this lifestyle before it consumed him whole. It is a rather adult and deliberately unique reading on the character, and a refreshing one at that.
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"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country." --John Adams |
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#683 | |
WE are Groot
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,256
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Instead he ****s off to Italy and leaves Blake the keys to his mansion and his myth. With zero training or anything. It was liked a tacked on nod to the comics, rather than actual thought out story telling. My idea would leave possibilities for a Batman Beyond adaptation or just let us use our imaginations. Blake finds the Bat Cave and all Bruce's tech. Then suddenly the lights come on and he's like "You're training begins now". Echoing Ra's in Batman Begins. To me that isn't just cool, it's more interesting thematically (full circle!) and a better reveal that Bruce is still alive.
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People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes
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#684 | |
In the shadows
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Your mind.
Posts: 18,510
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I'll be there... around every corner, in every empty room, as inevitable as your guilty conscience... |
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#685 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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It is definitely a more human and adult take on the character.
I know for me, when i saw the movie and it reached the point when the bomb went off, i was thinking "**** this, if it ends this way, with Batman/Bruce dying like that..that's a horrible ending". I would have walked out as dissapointed as most you who hate the film. |
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#686 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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#687 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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#688 | |
In the shadows
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Your mind.
Posts: 18,510
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He still gave everything to his city. Well, everything except his life in the end. He was was able to save an entire city, restore his city's faith in the Batman, and allowed the Batman symbol/legend to live on in the hearts and minds of Gotham's citizens through another person carrying on his legacy. He did a lot of good for Gotham, no? [Not to mention everything else he sacrificed for Gotham over the course of the trilogy]
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I'll be there... around every corner, in every empty room, as inevitable as your guilty conscience... |
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#689 |
WE are Groot
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,256
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But that person carrying on his legacy will probably be dead in a couple of hours since he has zero training and struggled to incapacitate two goons whilst he had a gun.
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People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes
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#690 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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#691 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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Killing off Bruce would be a stupid way to shock people. It doesnt matter anyway, because all that matters is that in the eyes of Gotham (and the world) Batman died saving them. But the entire point of the film in the first place and the arc, was to have Bruce survive and move on from the darkness. "Sometimes a man rises from the darkness".
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#692 | ||||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 297
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Bane, on the other hand, was a mirror for Batman. No one cared who he was before he put on the mask because he was the mask. He had no real name, no real past, and no true goals of his own. What he had was a legend with no real person underneath. That was what Bruce was in danger of becoming. Both of them wear masks to numb their pain. It’s interesting to note that the first fight with Bane doesn’t end with the famous back-breaking scene as we would expect. It ends with Bane destroying and throwing away Batman’s mask. Batman is left behind. Bruce has to learn to work through his pain and value his own life as a person if he wants to get out of the pit. The second fight ends with Batman destroying Bane’s mask leaving him with only pain. Quote:
Last edited by Xandrea; 03-27-2014 at 01:46 PM. |
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#693 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 297
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No one ever said he'd be Batman right away or didn't leave him the names of people who can train him. He's probably going to end up in Italy at some point training with Bruce.
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#694 |
Astral Plane User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York Subway
Posts: 91,745
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I don't know who else still feels this way but TDKR would've worked better if it was split into two films or trimmed the story down into a smaller narrative. The only gripe I still have with this film aside from nitpicks was they packed in way too many elements into a 2 and half hour movie.
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#695 | ||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 297
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#696 | ||||||||
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,888
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1. The Bat family were not inspired by him. They were taken in and trained by him. The only exceptions is the Batwomen. 2. Aside from his sidekicks, who else was inspired by him? Yeah nobody. He never set out to inspire people either. It was never part of his goal. That's a made up Nolan trait. Quote:
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Nothing like Bane. So how is he a mirror image of Batman? Quote:
Batman attacked Bane's mask because it was the source of his weakness. You are reaching with this point. There was no symbolism there.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 03-27-2014 at 02:07 PM. |
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#697 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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If you dont think that scene was symbolic then you're just not looking for it. Nolan is known for his symbolism in his movies.
Also Joker, you keep saying that the ending was boring and not interesting and claim that your way is. Well, that's fine but we're just going to be running in circles with that one because i find it more interesting personally. And so do other people. Last edited by shauner111; 03-27-2014 at 02:29 PM. |
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#698 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,888
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I'm looking for it, and it's not there. Can't see something that isn't there.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#699 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,036
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Fine then, but we do. If we see symbolism with that scene then it exists. That's how art works. It's as simple as that. You see the connections or you dont.
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#700 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,888
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So if I say I see symbolism in Bane being a lackey to Talia, like how Scarecrow was to Ra's in Begins, then it's true, it exists?
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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