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Old 03-30-2014, 09:09 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Memorable moments in the Begins chase:

- The Tumbler pancaking Cop cars
- Driving on rooftops
- Flipping over Cop cars
- Going stealth mode
- Blowing up a wall on the building rooftop then charging off it
- The general choreography of it screeching through the streets, making sharp turns around corners etc

Memorable moments in the TDK chase

- SWAT truck knocked into the river
- Joker destroying Cop cars with his rocket launcher
- The Tumbler's arrival and taking out the garbage truck
- The destruction of the Tumbler
- The birth of the Bat-Pod
- Helicopter knocked out of the air
- Joker's truck flip

Memorable moments in TDKR chase

- Bat-Pod speed jumps over the truck

There is no stand out moments in the TDKR chase apart from that one part. Whereas the chases of BB and TDK had several stand out moments. TDK's chase being the best one of the trilogy.

Why did you purposely omit the chase at the END of TDKR, when Batman and Catwoman are chasing after the bomb and trying to re-route it/stop it? And why are you comparing the brief TDKR cop chase with minimal action to those other chases with high stakes and balls-to-the-walls action?

The chase at the end of TDKR is the one that should be compared to TDK's chase. I definitely agree that TDK's chase was the best chase in the trilogy, and the best action sequence overall (it was also the longest). However, Nolan and his team staged some really impressive action at the end of TDKR as the Bat and the Batpod are chasing the bomb truck and taking down Tumblers. It was successfully staged, filmed, and edited. Plenty of memorable moments in there for me.

I can't see how it wouldn't deserve a mention here.

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Old 03-30-2014, 09:20 AM   #777
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Why did you purposely omit the chase at the END of TDKR, when Batman and Catwoman are chasing after the bomb and trying to re-route it/stop it?
Because that was the mid movie chase scene like the Cop chase in BB and the Joker truck one in TDK. Not the big climax action piece of the movie. If we were going to compare that then it would be with the Prewitt building action piece, and the Narrows action/Gordon driving the Tumbler after the monorail.

The brief, practically action less Cop chase of Batman in the middle of TDKR is why it's being chastised. It pales in comparison to the other mid movie chase sequences Nolan gave us in the previous movies.

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And why are you comparing the brief TDKR cop chase with minimal action to those other chases with high stakes and balls-to-the-walls action?
See above.

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:57 AM   #778
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I just can't get past the bad choreography. Great idea and concept, poorly executed.
All three films had bad choreography. BB just does the best job of hiding it due to the shaky cameras.

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:03 AM   #779
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True, i guess that's why i forgive it more. The shaky cameras were used well the first time Batman appears in Begins. For me that scene at the docks is the best action scene in the trilogy. The tension building was perfect.

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:09 AM   #780
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I think of the three vehicles, I might have to give the Tumbler the nod as having the best entrance. When those lights came on and blew past Gordon to pancake that cop car I knew I was in for a very different 'batmobile'. The batpod entrance comes a very close second though and I remember David Letterman talking about how cool he thought the bike was and how much he enjoyed Heath's performance.

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Old 03-30-2014, 02:15 PM   #781
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http://filmcellsltd.com/thedarkknighttrilogy.aspx






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Old 03-30-2014, 11:03 PM   #782
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Never seen the second and third pics there, anyone have larger versions of them?

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Old 03-31-2014, 12:50 PM   #783
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When I first saw TDKR I too felt the first chase was kind of short and ended in an anticlimactic fashion with the Bat escape. But I give it a pass now, because the very next scene with Catwoman and Daggett; Batman shows up again. So I view it as kind of a continuation of his return scene.

I still get goosebumps when Batman gives the rookie cop that glare and then he jumps on the bat-pod and Molossus starts playing.

But yeah, TDK and BB chase scenes are more high stakes and even high octane compared to the chase with the cops in TDKR.

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Old 04-01-2014, 10:19 AM   #784
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I watched the movie again last night. I take back everything I've said about this movie in the past. Shauner, I'm with you now. BEST. MOVIE. EVER!

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Old 04-01-2014, 10:52 AM   #785
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I watched the movie again last night. I take back everything I've said about this movie in the past. Shauner, I'm with you now. BEST. MOVIE. EVER!
APRIL FOOLS

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Old 04-01-2014, 02:29 PM   #786
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April Fools never works with me

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Old 04-01-2014, 04:36 PM   #787
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Ah too late...that was a perfect opportunity to say you vehemently hate TDKR, shauner.

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Old 04-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #788
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Looking back at the action, the worst thing Nolan could've done is pull back the camera wider and relax the editing rhythm, exposing the fundamental awfulness of the choreography. Which is ironic because people yearned for him to go more traditional in shooting his fight scenes after Batman Begins. If TDK and TDKR's fights were shot with the same intensified continuity of not Begins, but perhaps the Bourne films, the fights would've come off better by masking the bad choreography. I dunno, maybe Batman fight scenes will never not look ridiculous in those restrictive rubber costumes. But then again, Snyder achieved some decent fights with Niteowl. But that costume was a million times better than any live action Bat suit.

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Old 04-02-2014, 08:22 PM   #789
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I dont really care about flaws in fighting. I love to see an insane fight on screen, some exaggerated ninja stuff is always cool. But at the end of the day, i dont want to see shaky cam, id rather see some nice camera work that shows the surroundings. It made sense in begins but it didnt make sense to use it in the sequels. All the other stuff outweighs the choreography so i dont mind.

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Old 04-02-2014, 08:54 PM   #790
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I wouldn't have minded seeing a return to the BB shaky cam for maybe a small portion of the fight scenes in TDKR. Would have been a nice throwback to BB, I think.

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Old 04-02-2014, 09:43 PM   #791
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Looking back at the action, the worst thing Nolan could've done is pull back the camera wider and relax the editing rhythm, exposing the fundamental awfulness of the choreography. Which is ironic because people yearned for him to go more traditional in shooting his fight scenes after Batman Begins. If TDK and TDKR's fights were shot with the same intensified continuity of not Begins, but perhaps the Bourne films, the fights would've come off better by masking the bad choreography. I dunno, maybe Batman fight scenes will never not look ridiculous in those restrictive rubber costumes. But then again, Snyder achieved some decent fights with Niteowl. But that costume was a million times better than any live action Bat suit.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:21 AM   #792
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I wouldn't have minded seeing a return to the BB shaky cam for maybe a small portion of the fight scenes in TDKR. Would have been a nice throwback to BB, I think.
I don't think BB has shaky cam (at least im not remembering). It has a ridiculous editing , that confuses the audience that things are actually shaking

I liked Rises approach , i love most of its fights , especially knowing how limited Bale was with that suite. In the end , it's always a matter of performers.

The choreography itself , that tends to be a very Hollywood problem , allowing stunt crews to do something they lack the talent.

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Old 04-03-2014, 06:30 AM   #793
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In Rises in at least two different fight scenes you can see people actually fall down when they have not even been touched.




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Old 04-03-2014, 08:32 AM   #794
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Cool.

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:09 AM   #795
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In my opinion, TDKT's fight scenes are by far the worst thing of the entire trilogy.They're getting more and more dissapointing with time for me, especially after seeing Arrow. It's really tragic that a CW show that originally was a TDKT knockoff (and still is, to a certain extent) has better choreography than a Hollywood budget Batman film directed by an A-list director.

The best thing the trilogy's fights have going for them are the emotions behind them I.e. seeing Batman grow into who he is by the end of TDK when he takes down those SWAT's, the mystery behind what Batman is during BB's shaky cams, the emotional impact of seeing Bruce beaten after growing up with Nolan's version for 7 years, etc. When you take emotions out of the equation though, the fights are a complete mess. I'm not asking for Avengers-level action or anything, but they could have definitely done a far better job.

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:27 AM   #796
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It just shows you where the time and focus is. Arrow seems to be more about the fighting and it doesnt care about acting or telling an original story (some will disagree with me on that but oh well).

Most of the time in Hollywood, it's one way or the other. Great fights, bad story or the other way around.

Those two clips above, of people randomly falling. Ill put it this way. These are things that nobody will notice unless they've seen the movie multiple times and are analysing the frame. Secondly...that first clip (to me) doesn't have the mercenary falling by himself. The 2nd clip sure, but i see Batman grabbing one dude and swinging him into that guy that falls down. I dont think it's a screw-up.

Like i said, the 2nd clip is a screw-up. But it's almost out of the frame that you can just chalk it up to Blake sweeping his legs under him.

It's not the best choreography, but i usually dont care about that stuff. It's not like i went to see a pure martial arts film or something super over the top like Watchmen. Im expecting amazing choreography in Batman vs Superman because of the universe/director.

Im not trying to tell myself that it's OK just because it's Nolan and i love the trilogy. It's just that i know Nolan, and fight choreography will always be at the bottom of the list. Im a Batman fan before many things, but when it comes to seeing him on film, my priority as a viewer has to due with the filmmaking...NOT the Batman. That's why these moments dont bother me because im getting focus on story/character before everything else. Which is a rarity in Hollywood.

He has incredible stunts but his choreography is lackluster. Then again, i thought it was well done in Inception.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:06 AM   #797
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The whole trilogy has some major moments of lazyness. Not only in terms of choregraphy, but also in terms of writing. Some stuff is just badly organized, like we see in those two clips. But to be fair, mistakes like that are pretty common in movies.

I wonder whats the reason for letting stuff like that happen. Im pretty sure they noticed it, but for some odd reason they chose not to reshoot the scene.

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:32 AM   #798
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That happens because they just film a lot of stuff for action scenes , and in the initial selection they picked blunders. But that's normal in this type of film , you are simply seeing it in gif form in a very accentuated way. I was watching Raiders the other day , and there's a bunch of scenes that would look exactly like that. It's the type of problems that comes with this gargantuan film productions.

But about the shaky stuff , as you can see there isnt any in Begins. Most frames are well composed , well shot , well framed , some very small pans...yet we are completely bombarded by different perspectives in the editing , creating a sense of complete disorder (and it ends up being confused with the shaky stuff).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWCZvowEjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tph2hqk78Jk

This is not horrible. This in fact isn't anything , because i can't even understand it lol

Also comparisons with heavy cgi stuff is ridiculous. Wow a cgi model can actually run and kick better than a real actor ....surprise !


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Old 04-03-2014, 12:12 PM   #799
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Yeah shaky cam is the wrong word for me (us) to use. It's just quick editing.

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Old 04-03-2014, 12:16 PM   #800
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