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Old 02-14-2014, 06:26 PM   #126
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How did that make less sense? They knew she was someone Spider-Man cared about and used her as bait. The only bad thing about it was it was repetitive by movie 3. It served a purpose in movie 1 and 2. Especially 2.
And I would agree, Ock might have kidnapped her to bring out Spider-Man (again) but he did have another plan with his machine (I forget what it's called)

"Teh power of the Sonnnnnnnnnn!"

By 3 it was just lazy (like most of the film IMO and it's not 100% Raimi's doing, fecking Avi Arad!).

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Old 02-14-2014, 06:28 PM   #127
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And I would agree, Ock might have kidnapped her to bring out Spider-Man (again) but he did have another plan with his machine (I forget what it's called)

"Teh power of the Sonnnnnnnnnn!"
Well that wasn't what I meant. I meant she found out Peter was Spider-Man and they became a couple as a result from it.

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By 3 it was just lazy (like most of the film IMO and it's not 100% Raimi's doing fecking Avi Arad!).
Raimi had no creative control.

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Old 02-14-2014, 06:42 PM   #128
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Well that wasn't what I meant. I meant she found out Peter was Spider-Man and they became a couple as a result from it.
Oh, I thought it was about villains motivations for kidnapping her. Silly me, must be the fact that in my time zone it's rather late .



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Raimi had no creative control.
Half true, he was forced to include Venom (to a certain extent we know, I've heard some say he only needed to introduce the suit) and the inclusion of Gwen Stacy. Everything else like the Uncle Ben retcon, Emo Peter Parker etc I would blame him for.

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Old 02-14-2014, 07:08 PM   #129
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It was written by Raimi, he didn't write the first two. Sure Avi forced Venom, but Raimi did everything else. Venom isn't even that difficult to work with, nor is he the only problem that film faces.

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Old 02-14-2014, 09:07 PM   #130
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I found this interesting. It's from 2012, but the fact that Bale would be open to this..

What do you guys think of this happening in 20 years. You know, any kind of story between Nolan and Bale. How would you do it if if it was announced and you couldn't change it from happening.

Bale says of a possible fourth film in Nolan’s so-called Batman ‘trilogy’ :

I’ve had that experience with another thing of thinking a fourth one could work (Terminator Salvation) and it didn’t really happen – and that’s a thorn on my side. So if Chris came to me with a script and said, ‘You know what? There is another story’, then I would love the challenge of making a fourth one work.”

But maybe Nolan doesn’t come to Bale with an idea for a fourth one? What if there’s years before the Brit gets to wear the Cowl again? Maybe “Dark Knight Returns” could be the go? – when Bale is pushing 55 or so.

That could be an interesting one, couldn’t it? Twenty years down the track….

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Old 02-14-2014, 10:34 PM   #131
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He just shows loyalty to his actors



Highly debatable,

Raimi's tone matched the Stan Lee era, watching them reminds me of Donner's Superman (For the record, I like SM1 and SM2).

Webb just did it better. By ditching cliche origins by having Oscorp playing a key role over the trilogy in terms of their creation. Raimi's Spider-Man 3 is essentially a bunch of s*** that happened at the same time, it really was ridiculous. Over the planned trilogy all the villains are coming from one source, Oscorp. It's much more believable that these villains are the product of an evil corporation's schemes than to say "and then this came from space and then some thug fell into a sandpit that they were doing science stuff".

Also Webb gave Spider-Man sense of realism that really worked. By grounding the setting and characters but keeping the powers Webb made characters like Peter Parker more relate able and not just some guy is nerdy and unlucky. Also Spider-Man is really juxtaposed, you've got the melodrama with the girlfriend and school but then there's the crazy stuff like a Lizard-Human hybrid and Marc Webb captured this perfectly .
Eh, Webb goes for a sense of "realism," or rather the studio forced him to copy Nolan's tone, at least in the first TASM (that looks to have been jettisoned for the sequel). He even goes so far as to begin his origin film the exact same way as Nolan did: with the hero as a child playing hide and seek before major events are set into motion of him becoming a superhero that span a decade(s).

But unlike Batman, I never liked that "dark" or illusionary reality approach to Spidey. John Romita Sr. said it best: Spidey is a soap opera where a fight breaks out once in a while. And comics from about the 1960s until the early '90s got that. While the occasional "Kraven's Last Hunt" was brilliant, TASM felt closer to the Carnage stories or Torment--awkwardly downbeat for an upbeat character. Peter Parker's life is full of tragedy, but unlike Bruce Wayne, he is an optimistic character who preservers and over comes it for the lightness.

While Raimi is naturally a bit screwball, and even a bit camp (not saying this in a negative way), he understood that with his own subversively comical impulses in the first two movies. I'll agree the third movie is a muddled mess--though I do not think TASM even has one scene on par with the Birth of Sandman, nor do any of the Lizard fight scenes have the viscerally dizzying quality of Peter's first fight with Harry in SM3 or the climax of SM3....never mind the still unsurpassed visionary approach to the action in SM2.

As for "it makes more sense for it all to come from Oscorp," Spidey is again to me not Batman. He is a step further removed from reality with less of a need to explain it (nor does Batman in the right hands, but there is an argument for that Nolan-ized approach with the character). Spidey's life being such a series of events--defined more by his love life and his friends and family than who he is fighting--that a villain of the week approach is almost mandated. It is why he probably is honestly better suited for a TV show than a film series.

And beyond that, Webb so mishandled Lizard, a personal favorite, I have yet to be convinced he can do Electro right in a movie that is more stacked than the third Raimi film was so many years ago.

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Old 02-14-2014, 11:24 PM   #132
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Not to get really off topic, but I've gotta rewatch TASM. I really felt numb the first time watching it, but TASM2 looks like a step in a much better direction.

But back on topic, eh, if Heath had lived and lets say TDKRises wouldn't have pulled so much from TDKReturns, then yeah; I could see a true possibility of Bale and Nolan teaming up again for a fourth Batman film. Now, not so much.

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Old 02-14-2014, 11:25 PM   #133
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http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vid...k-knight-rises

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Old 02-15-2014, 06:19 AM   #134
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Eh, Webb goes for a sense of "realism," or rather the studio forced him to copy Nolan's tone
Please khaleesi! Can I see evidence?
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At least in the first TASM (that looks to have been jettisoned for the sequel). He even goes so far as to begin his origin film the exact same way as Nolan did: with the hero as a child playing hide and seek before major events are set into motion of him becoming a superhero that span a decade(s).
You mean to tell me, that becuase Webb features a child playing at the beginning of the film, it's a Nolan rip off? In the TASM commentary Webb stated the inspiration came from another director to "start your film with a metaphor. TASM2's first shot is a ticking watch becuase the main theme is time. I also disagree with saying the tone is similar because they are not. It's not like the origin was told with lots of flashbacks, had little light moments and had the hero travel the world as a Emo (think Man Of Steel). TASM2 is the same, they've just given the costume better coloring and more daytime swinging, they've even kept the realism e.g Rhino looking tank like and this, more realistic swinging,


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But unlike Batman, I never liked that "dark" or illusionary reality approach to Spidey. John Romita Sr. said it best: Spidey is a soap opera where a fight breaks out once in a while. And comics from about the 1960s until the early '90s got that. While the occasional "Kraven's Last Hunt" was brilliant, TASM felt closer to the Carnage stories or Torment--awkwardly downbeat for an upbeat character. Peter Parker's life is full of tragedy, but unlike Bruce Wayne, he is an optimistic character who preservers and over comes it for the lightness.
Eh, I'd like this explained a bit. There was lots of light moments and Spider-Man overcame Uncle Ben's death. It's not like he was still crying at the end over Uncle Ben.

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While Raimi is naturally a bit screwball, and even a bit camp (not saying this in a negative way), he understood that with his own subversively comical impulses in the first two movies. I'll agree the third movie is a muddled mess--though I do not think TASM even has one scene on par with the Birth of Sandman, nor do any of the Lizard fight scenes have the viscerally dizzying quality of Peter's first fight with Harry in SM3 or the climax of SM3....never mind the still unsurpassed visionary approach to the action in SM2.
School fight was awesome, short but with Spidey being witty and being "Spider like" with his movements and the webbing up of Lizard. I'd say the scene where he saves Jack was comparable to the birth scene. I'd agree that SM2's action was better than any Spider-Man but TASM got the Spider-Man poses and movements better, just.

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As for "it makes more sense for it all to come from Oscorp," Spidey is again to me not Batman. He is a step further removed from reality with less of a need to explain it (nor does Batman in the right hands, but there is an argument for that Nolan-ized approach with the character). Spidey's life being such a series of events--defined more by his love life and his friends and family than who he is fighting--that a villain of the week approach is almost mandated. It is why he probably is honestly better suited for a TV show than a film series.

It just got repetitive, while it is true that his supporting cast is important he's just as equally defined by his villains. Nothing personal but this post felt a little like tip toeing around the fact that Webb just did this better IMO. Webb even wants to make the whole Oscorp thing get less repetitive by having villains that don't originate from Oscorp like Rhino.

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And beyond that, Webb so mishandled Lizard, a personal favorite, I have yet to be convinced he can do Electro right in a movie that is more stacked than the third Raimi film was so many years ago.
He was about the same as GG in SM1 IMO. The changes made to him while not what I might have done, they did suit the universe they were in. Making him look more humanoid fitted with the human-hybrid stuff at Oscorp (which is why Spider-Man isn't a giant Spider and the upcoming Electro isn't a giant eel). As for not having his family that did make him less sympathetic but there was a connection there to Peter's family and it was made clear that he was just a good man. His look was quite similar to how he originally looked (so at least he looked like a version of the character) and his plan was to enhance humanity by making more hybrids. A little cheesy but hey it's a comic book film and it's better than a guy in a power ranger suit wanting to "rule the city" with another guy in spandex. What social policys would Goblin have put in or NYC? Now that's a What If I want to see .

As for TASM2, could turn out an even worse mess but it's not the characters in it that matters, it's how they're handled!We've seen CBM's like have lots of character but were good like X-Men 2 or The Avengers.

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:51 AM   #135
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Really tired of people claiming ASM was "teh dark". It wasn't. Watch the movie.

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:54 AM   #136
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Raimi had no creative control.
Which to this day stuns me, considering the huge success of the first two.

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:19 AM   #137
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Really tired of people claiming ASM was "teh dark". It wasn't. Watch the movie.
Dude, Nolan helped make the movie...it was super dark and stuff.

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:27 AM   #138
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Which to this day stuns me, considering the huge success of the first two.
And scenes as the street dancing or the French restaurant guy are pure classic Raimi cringe-worthy trademark comedy.

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:33 AM   #139
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Dude, Nolan helped make the movie...it was super dark and stuff.
He was on set forcing Webb to copy his style.

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:48 AM   #140
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He was on set forcing Webb to copy his style.
I couldn't tell. I mean, I couldn't see a thing, it was so DARK!!!

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:09 AM   #141
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Dude, Nolan helped make the movie...it was super dark and stuff.
"With great feeling, comes ... bones and stuff"

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:15 AM   #142
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It's still a light movie in comparison, but it was influenced by Nolan a little bit. Every reboot has.

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Old 02-15-2014, 01:05 PM   #143
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Please khaleesi! Can I see evidence?

You mean to tell me, that becuase Webb features a child playing at the beginning of the film, it's a Nolan rip off? In the TASM commentary Webb stated the inspiration came from another director to "start your film with a metaphor. TASM2's first shot is a ticking watch becuase the main theme is time. I also disagree with saying the tone is similar because they are not. It's not like the origin was told with lots of flashbacks, had little light moments and had the hero travel the world as a Emo (think Man Of Steel). TASM2 is the same, they've just given the costume better coloring and more daytime swinging, they've even kept the realism e.g Rhino looking tank like and this, more realistic swinging,
I using one example that showed blatant laziness on the part of the writers and/or director. But the film is very much marred by the need to be dark. Consider the necessity of showing Spider-Man only fighting crime at night, adding "ominous" dark cues meant to cause the audience to question Peter's morality, such as when he covers that one goon's mouth in web-fluid and then checks for the star tattoo on his wrist. He sees it is not there, so he lets the guy breathe, "saying this could have gone a lot worse." The scene is meant to evoke at least the thought that Spidey would have let him die if this was Uncle Ben's killer. And keep in mind that this is only one of the first time we've really seen him in full costume for more than a second. The way the jokes stop, he tilts his head in a shot that indicates his eyes are predatory and the music comes in with a menacing hiss--it is to make him look dark, dangerous, angry.

The movie also feels the need to "explain" everything like Nolan did. Where did he get his web fluid? Where did he get his web-shooters? Where did he get the idea for a skin-tight colorful outfit (he listens to other geeks talk about wind velocity and then studies speed skating). Also the emphasis on the cops, particularly Stacy, it is all influenced by Nolan, except Spidey is not Batman and that kind of interpretation of a strictly nighttime avenger does not gel well with the jokes, the giant Lizard, the fact that Peter Parker is meant to be an everyday high schooler struggling with romance. It makes for a muddled movie.

And if you really don't think Sony had The Dark Knight in their head, go back and watch the trailers for TASM. Many have the word "BEGINS." That was not accidental.

And you know what the biggest validation is that this approach failed in the eyes of not only many viewers, but also Sony and Webb? The fact that they have completely ditched it for TASM2. He is now, as you say, seen swinging in the daytime, fighting colorful villains who are not hidden in the marketing and is basically wearing the Raimi suit or a variation on it. That need to "ground" it is really gone in TASM2, because that just ain't Spidey.

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Eh, I'd like this explained a bit. There was lots of light moments and Spider-Man overcame Uncle Ben's death. It's not like he was still crying at the end over Uncle Ben.
I was speaking there of the fact that Spidey is not a character who needs to be defined by gritty hardship. While Uncle Ben dies, Gwen Stacy dies, Harry Osborn dies, etc., he is still presented in his best eras as a guy who is never weighed down by his loss. In the 1960s through the early 1990s, he is depicted as a regular guy who goes through some tragedies, but embraces lightness and happiness and his stories never really are all that bleak. They are not nourish, they do not take entirely at night, and he is not depicted as a dark avenger striking out at criminality. He is a guy who is trying to keep a steady job, find love or balance his marriage (depending on where it is happen), and keep his responsibilities to his family and friends while also having to save the world once in a while. Despite not getting the details right of Peter or Mary Jane's personalities (IMO) right, Raimi captured that take on the character. Webb's does remind of later comics, but not Ultimate which also got what I'm talking about. TASM reminds me of those dreary post-The Dark Knight Returns Spidey comics in the mid-90s when everything was getting dark. Spidey was fighting Carnage the serial killer, Lizard the serial killer controlled by a voodoo priestess, and just generally miserable despite being ridiculously married to a supermodel (never agreed with the comic writers of turing her into that). That kind of downbeat stoic hero shtick never plays well on Peter Parker and rang false in TASM too.

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School fight was awesome, short but with Spidey being witty and being "Spider like" with his movements and the webbing up of Lizard. I'd say the scene where he saves Jack was comparable to the birth scene. I'd agree that SM2's action was better than any Spider-Man but TASM got the Spider-Man poses and movements better, just.


Yes the poses and "realism" of the CGI is better because it has had 7-12 years on the Raimi films to improve. Albeit, some of that Electro stuff at the power plant looks more cartoony than anything in the Raimi sequels at least. With that said, Raimi's camera movements and style gave all the fight scenes in SM2 and SM3 a verticality and even a sense of vertigo as he woodshed around and wielded his lens like a madman, similar to how he'd shoot scenes in Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. Webb's style in TASM at least was very workmanlike. I personally think Lizard is a much better villain than Sandman or Venom, but you did not get that in terms of character or visuals in TASM, because he looked bad, he was poorly developed as a character, and in the fight scenes he never did anything that impressive.

But yes, in the sequel, they are definitely going for more of the Raimi look with the swinging, I can see that.

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It just got repetitive, while it is true that his supporting cast is important he's just as equally defined by his villains. Nothing personal but this post felt a little like tip toeing around the fact that Webb just did this better IMO. Webb even wants to make the whole Oscorp thing get less repetitive by having villains that don't originate from Oscorp like Rhino.
I really don't think that. I think it will be pretty damn repetitive by TASM3 if all the villains are because of Norman Osborn. The only villains who felt redundant in origins were Sandman and Venom, because SM3 wasn't very good and rushed through everything (though both had amazing "birth" scenes). Honestly, Electro doesn't seems about on par with Sandman falling into that test in TASM2 trailers where he goes the full Burton/Schumaucher where he falls into a vat of electric eels (really?) and now he's EVILZ!

But I'm okay with that, because honestly villains are not the selling point of Spidey mythos. He has AMAZING villains. I'd say easily the best rogues gallery outside of Batman. But unlike Batman, his defining characteristic is not what he does inside the mask but outside of it as Peter Parker. as such, even the Raimi films got away with what the comics have for 50 years: redundant "science gone wrong origins" matter not, because the point is how they effect Peter's life. They are the equivalent of him having a really terrible deadline at work. There are exceptions of course, namely Green Goblin (either one), Doc Ock, Kraven in KLH, and a few others who really get to his soul. But by and large, they don't need to be explained so I, like many, am entirely indifferent as to whether they are all random accidents or all orchestrated by Norman Osborn.

And one of the best villains, Lizard, was fudged up by Webb already. As he was supposed to be Peter's friend, one that he is desperate to save from himself and also for Curt's family. Electro is run-of-the-mill compared to that. So is Rhino.

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He was about the same as GG in SM1 IMO. The changes made to him while not what I might have done, they did suit the universe they were in. Making him look more humanoid fitted with the human-hybrid stuff at Oscorp (which is why Spider-Man isn't a giant Spider and the upcoming Electro isn't a giant eel). As for not having his family that did make him less sympathetic but there was a connection there to Peter's family and it was made clear that he was just a good man. His look was quite similar to how he originally looked (so at least he looked like a version of the character) and his plan was to enhance humanity by making more hybrids. A little cheesy but hey it's a comic book film and it's better than a guy in a power ranger suit wanting to "rule the city" with another guy in spandex. What social policys would Goblin have put in or NYC? Now that's a What If I want to see .

As for TASM2, could turn out an even worse mess but it's not the characters in it that matters, it's how they're handled!We've seen CBM's like have lots of character but were good like X-Men 2 or The Avengers.
Except I cared about Norman Osborn, even in that stupid looking suit. I also was repulsed by him at the end. I felt nothing for Connors, when he is in theory supposed to be a much more likable person. He felt rote. Taking away his family or a genuine connection of friendship with Peter (they met once before he became the Lizard) takes away his humanity, as does showing him turning back and forth into a human and choosing to do it, which makes him look like a Norman Osborn knock-off.

As for the appearance, even keeping the coat on at all times would have been better. You saw the .5 seconds he wore it with the SWAT team and also in the deleted scene. It turns out Ditko knew more about visual appeal than a team of CGI animators and filmmakers did 50 years later, because without the contrasting white "cape," he looked like a boring green monster.

Yes, we will see if things improve this year.

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Old 02-15-2014, 01:17 PM   #144
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But back on topic, eh, if Heath had lived and lets say TDKRises wouldn't have pulled so much from TDKReturns, then yeah; I could see a true possibility of Bale and Nolan teaming up again for a fourth Batman film. Now, not so much.
If they did a variation on it, i would have Nolan cast David Bowie as the older Joker. Wasn't Dark Knight Returns-Joker based on Bowie anyway? Plus Chris worked with him in Prestige. Seems like a match made in heaven, too bad it wont happen. Oh, Gary Oldman & David Bowie are also good friends.

I guess if Bale and crew returned for this Justice League business..that 1 film could have been a possibility.

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Old 02-15-2014, 01:37 PM   #145
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It's still a light movie in comparison, but it was influenced by Nolan a little bit. Every reboot has.
The concept of the cinematic reboot is pretty much a post-Begins phenomenon. The influence is there whether it be direct or indirect. I highly doubt Sony would've rebooted the franchise so soon after Spider-Man 3 if not for the post-Begins effect. They had a model to go off of, and one that had proven to be successful in the superhero genre. In the past, they would've just gotten a new director, new actors and pulled a "Batman Forever" (soft reboot/sequel) for Spider-Man 4. In fact, they might have been overly confident in relying on that model because half the audience still thought it was too soon to re-do the origin.

Saying that there was an influence doesn't mean Mark Webb sat down, watched Batman Begins and said "I want to do that". That's not the only way for something to have an influence.

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Old 02-15-2014, 01:52 PM   #146
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Righty right.

You guys on here take everything from the surface only. You don't see beneath it. Influence comes in many forms. I say that it was inspired by Begins and everybody immediately thinks that i mean Spider-Man was a very dark movie that borrowed entire scenes from, etc. It was influenced by it. So was Man Of Steel. So was Star Trek. So was Iron Man (to a lesser extent). That doesn't mean that Star Trek is a dark or gritty movie. Cmon people!

But in spidey's case. He was darker than the Raimi version and now it's lighter than the previous film.

Of course you guys will still respond with "Hardy har! Soo funny! Cuz Amazing-Spiderman was created by nolan didnt u know!? It's a gritty film where Lizards can roam around HAAHAA REALISM!!!"

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Old 02-15-2014, 02:22 PM   #147
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I using one example that showed blatant laziness on the part of the writers and/or director. But the film is very much marred by the need to be dark. Consider the necessity of showing Spider-Man only fighting crime at night,
He was looking for Uncle Ben's killer. Criminals do like to work at night. He was also considered a "vigilante" and trying to not draw that much attention to himself. So, night scenes. Besides, Peter is a High School student. He spends most of his day at school, goes home for homework, and is free at night to do the Spider-Man thing.

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adding "ominous" dark cues meant to cause the audience to question Peter's morality, such as when he covers that one goon's mouth in web-fluid and then checks for the star tattoo on his wrist. He sees it is not there, so he lets the guy breathe, "saying this could have gone a lot worse." The scene is meant to evoke at least the thought that Spidey would have let him die if this was Uncle Ben's killer.
Hahaha. How does "this could have gone a lot worse" translate to Spidey being willing to let the guy bite it? I never got a sense that the goon was in any mortal danger. It was a pretty funny scene.

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And keep in mind that this is only one of the first time we've really seen him in full costume for more than a second. The way the jokes stop, he tilts his head in a shot that indicates his eyes are predatory and the music comes in with a menacing hiss--it is to make him look dark, dangerous, angry.
Hahaha. "Predatory"

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The movie also feels the need to "explain" everything like Nolan did. Where did he get his web fluid? Where did he get his web-shooters? Where did he get the idea for a skin-tight colorful outfit (he listens to other geeks talk about wind velocity and then studies speed skating).
Oh you mean like how Stan Lee dedicated two pages to show us what the web-shooters looked like, how they worked, and the different shaped webs that Spidey could make with them? Besides, in the film, the web fluid had to come from somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that he came up with the idea for the suit himself. He just wasn't sure how to go about making one. So, he googled (Binged?) it. Just like Bruce did...

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Also the emphasis on the cops, particularly Stacy, it is all influenced by Nolan,


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except Spidey is not Batman and that kind of interpretation of a strictly nighttime avenger does not gel well with the jokes, the giant Lizard, the fact that Peter Parker is meant to be an everyday high schooler struggling with romance. It makes for a muddled movie.
He was only out at night, yes. Except when he wasn't. His reveal scene happens in broad daylight. The best fight in the film happens in broad daylight, in a high school.

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And if you really don't think Sony had The Dark Knight in their head, go back and watch the trailers for TASM. Many have the word "BEGINS." That was not accidental.
Sure, the marketing is one thing, the film is another. Pretty much every reboot port 2005 was influenced by BB's exsitence, and of course Sony would be happy with having a TDK like hit on their hands, I'm sure, but the actual film is not like BB, at all.

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And you know what the biggest validation is that this approach failed in the eyes of not only many viewers, but also Sony and Webb? The fact that they have completely ditched it for TASM2. He is now, as you say, seen swinging in the daytime, fighting colorful villains who are not hidden in the marketing and is basically wearing the Raimi suit or a variation on it. That need to "ground" it is really gone in TASM2, because that just ain't Spidey.
They most likely changed the suit because people pissed and moaned about the ASM suit, so they went for a more traditional suit. I don't get anything colorful about Electro, as a matter of fact, he is quite toned down from classic Electro, even wearing a hoodie. The (Harry?) Goblin is also toned down. Electro, The Goblin, Rhino, they all wear darkish colors. They could easily fit in the universe established in the first film.

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I was speaking there of the fact that Spidey is not a character who needs to be defined by gritty hardship. While Uncle Ben dies, Gwen Stacy dies, Harry Osborn dies, etc., he is still presented in his best eras as a guy who is never weighed down by his loss. In the 1960s through the early 1990s, he is depicted as a regular guy who goes through some tragedies, but embraces lightness and happiness and his stories never really are all that bleak. They are not nourish, they do not take entirely at night, and he is not depicted as a dark avenger striking out at criminality. He is a guy who is trying to keep a steady job, find love or balance his marriage (depending on where it is happen), and keep his responsibilities to his family and friends while also having to save the world once in a while. Despite not getting the details right of Peter or Mary Jane's personalities (IMO) right, Raimi captured that take on the character. Webb's does remind of later comics, but not Ultimate which also got what I'm talking about. TASM reminds me of those dreary post-The Dark Knight Returns Spidey comics in the mid-90s when everything was getting dark. Spidey was fighting Carnage the serial killer, Lizard the serial killer controlled by a voodoo priestess, and just generally miserable despite being ridiculously married to a supermodel (never agreed with the comic writers of turing her into that). That kind of downbeat stoic hero shtick never plays well on Peter Parker and rang false in TASM too.
I suggest you watch the movie again. It seems like you're so used to Raimi's Spider-Man that you cannot understand Webb's approach to the character.

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Old 02-15-2014, 03:03 PM   #148
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I have seen it twice. I get Webb's approach the character--a mishmash of committee decisions. Otherwise, the two films he directed wouldn't be so radically different in their interpretation of the character. Ahem.







And the sequel:







If you cannot see the literal night-and-day difference (heh) between the visual and tonal styles of these approaches, then you choose not to. Yes, even the night scenes have a nice, shiny neon glow now in TASM2.

Why did TASM take place mostly at night with an almost grungy, industrial grime to it? Because the studio wanted to ape Nolan as that was the flavor of the month pre-Avengers. Now, they are influenced by Avengers and going back to many of the same flourishes as Raimi. That is not an interpretation, that is a committee mandate.

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Old 02-15-2014, 03:25 PM   #149
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:28 PM   #150
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Why did TASM take place mostly at night with an almost grungy, industrial grime to it? Because the studio wanted to ape Nolan as that was the flavor of the month pre-Avengers. Now, they are influenced by Avengers and going back to many of the same flourishes as Raimi. That is not an interpretation, that is a committee mandate.
This is the most likely scenario. The movie do look radically different from each other, and that´s not common in sequels directed by the same person. Unless the director has no control over it. And the look of TASM2 does reminds me a little bit TA.

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