The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #1
Thread Manager
SHH! Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 0
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

Thread Manager is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #2
Thread Manager
SHH! Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 0
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

Thread Manager is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #3
theShape
Creature of Darkness
 
theShape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Inside your mind.
Posts: 10,840
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven X View Post
They wrote it so that Clark had to steal the clothes after the oil rig explosion. They could have written that differently, too.



I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that douchebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.

__________________
Past the point of no return...
theShape is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:31 PM   #4
TheFlamingCoco
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,877
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

^ To me, the stealing of pants didn't "break the character" because there was no other realistic option. It isn't something I LIKED, but leaving heat-damaged clothes on would incur further questioning from outsiders.

TheFlamingCoco is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:33 PM   #5
Broseph44
Dats what I'm saying
 
Broseph44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4,283
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post



I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that douchebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.


Thank you voice of reason. People are making wayyyyyy too much of things like this. It's ridiculous.

__________________
Avvy by Kane

Dats it!

I believe in Ben Affleck.

Hal: Were we ever truly friends?
Sinestro: That’s the tragedy of all of this, Jordan. Hal, we’ll always be friends.
Broseph44 is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:34 PM   #6
Poni_Boy
Giggedy
 
Poni_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,353
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post
I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life.
He's never meant to have a sixth sense. His goodness is supposed to come from his parents and how he was raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post
An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater.
Honestly I didn't see that character evolution in the movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post
Yes, that is technically stealing
"Technically"


__________________


Joss Whedon's MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING is the cinematic equivalent of Tony Stark building an Iron Man suit in a cave with a bunch of scraps
Poni_Boy is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:36 PM   #7
InJustice
Side-Kick
 
InJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,991
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post



I feel almost speechless when I hear this criticism. It's beyond stupid.

The dude grabbed some clean clothes after his other clothes burned off and became soaking wet after he saved several people from a collapsing oil rig. Rather than walk around half naked and attract attention to himself, he took clothes he saw. Yes, they were someone else's clothes. Yes, that is technically stealing, but we're not talking about Superman here. We're talking about a Clark Kent who was wandering around the country, using fake names and trying to stay hidden, not knowing what to make of himself. This was before he discovered his heritage and before he knew what his purpose as Superman was.

I think it's more believable that Clark didn't have a "6th sense" of goodness from birth that prevented him from ever doing anything wrong in his life. Remember, he was raised by humans as a human...amongst humans. Humans make mistakes and aren't always on the straight and narrow. Yes, his parents were good people, but even kids raised by good parents will make mistakes in life (shoplifting, bullying, vandalism, etc). Even Clark destroying that douchebag's 18-wheeler is acceptable to me. Yes, his father taught him to avoid confrontations, but that doesn't mean Clark didn't want to retaliate in some way or get some personal satisfaction out of messing with a guy who had just dumped beer on his head for no reason at all. And again, that was before he knew he was essential a god among men and a symbol for hope and all that jazz.

An important theme of MOS, to me, is Clark's transformation from one of us to something greater. This is something that Donner's Superman didn't really explore, so I was glad that we got to see something new in MOS.
FINALLY a voice of reason.



Getting real tired of people saying "OMFG this is not Superman!" when the whole point of that scene is that Clark never really established himself as Superman.

InJustice is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:36 PM   #8
Poni_Boy
Giggedy
 
Poni_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,353
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlamingCoco View Post
^ To me, the stealing of pants didn't "break the character" because there was no other realistic option. It isn't something I LIKED, but leaving heat-damaged clothes on would incur further questioning from outsiders.
And that's where the writing comes in. They wrote him into the situation where stealing clothes was the only option. But there are definitely other options on the table.

__________________


Joss Whedon's MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING is the cinematic equivalent of Tony Stark building an Iron Man suit in a cave with a bunch of scraps
Poni_Boy is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #9
Broseph44
Dats what I'm saying
 
Broseph44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4,283
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

We get it Poni. You hate the movie and his characterization and the "bad writing" Yada Yada.


__________________
Avvy by Kane

Dats it!

I believe in Ben Affleck.

Hal: Were we ever truly friends?
Sinestro: That’s the tragedy of all of this, Jordan. Hal, we’ll always be friends.
Broseph44 is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #10
InJustice
Side-Kick
 
InJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,991
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
And that's where the writing comes in. They wrote him into the situation where stealing clothes was the only option. But there are definitely other options on the table.
What other options are there?

InJustice is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #11
charl_huntress
The Offender w/ Magic
 
charl_huntress's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outside the doors of Arkham Ayslum
Posts: 10,745
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking?

__________________
Mission Accomplished!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
charl_huntress is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #12
TheNextNolan22
You are an F** ****
 
TheNextNolan22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: BatFleck Cave
Posts: 29,988
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Where's the David Goyer dead horse pic when you need it?

__________________
Cavill. Affleck. Gadot. 5/6/16.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
Stop all this positive thinking. Only negativity is allowed in here.
When it comes to Superman.....Make mine CAVILL
Dats dat.
TheNextNolan22 is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:40 PM   #13
InJustice
Side-Kick
 
InJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,991
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNextNolan22 View Post
Where's the David Goyer dead horse pic when you need it?

InJustice is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:40 PM   #14
Poni_Boy
Giggedy
 
Poni_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,353
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by InJustice View Post
What other options are there?
Top of my head?

Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)

Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)

__________________


Joss Whedon's MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING is the cinematic equivalent of Tony Stark building an Iron Man suit in a cave with a bunch of scraps
Poni_Boy is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:41 PM   #15
Poni_Boy
Giggedy
 
Poni_Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,353
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by charl_huntress View Post
This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking?
Stop what you're doing and go watch The Wolf of Wall Street immediately

__________________


Joss Whedon's MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING is the cinematic equivalent of Tony Stark building an Iron Man suit in a cave with a bunch of scraps
Poni_Boy is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:41 PM   #16
Raven X
Nevermore
 
Raven X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,602
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

__________________
Straight Edge Soul!!

Disney Lover!!
Raven X is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:41 PM   #17
Whiskey Tango
Side-Kick
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 19,202
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

I have very little interest in seeing Superman portrayed as some ultimate goody two shoes who never does anything wrong and always makes the right decisions. Sure he's a good guy, maybe the best of us but should still be capable of making mistakes and having self doubt over hard choices.

The stealing clothes thing is a silly thing to gripe about imo. Oh those poor people, they'll probably lose their house without that pair of pants. How could you, Superman? Damn youuuuuuuuuu!

__________________

2007-2008 SHH Pro Football Pick 'Em Champion
Whiskey Tango is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #18
TheNextNolan22
You are an F** ****
 
TheNextNolan22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: BatFleck Cave
Posts: 29,988
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by InJustice View Post

__________________
Cavill. Affleck. Gadot. 5/6/16.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
Stop all this positive thinking. Only negativity is allowed in here.
When it comes to Superman.....Make mine CAVILL
Dats dat.
TheNextNolan22 is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #19
Marvin
Side-Kick
 
Marvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 16,366
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Exaaaactly. Everything included in a movie is a conscious decision by the filmmakers. For me it's the opposite of seeing the forest for the trees.
Having a writer polish the script is hardly going to do anything about the producer/director mandates. Ergo superman killing, superman stealing clothes is still going to happen. It's only going to be "better written", these ideas will still be filtered through the same higher ups you've accused of wanting these things to happen in the first place.

Superman killing is going to annoy people that hate superman killing...weather it's written by 'goyer the devil' or otherwise.

__________________
1992's Universal soldier is my favorite Wolverine vs Sabretooth movie.
Marvin is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #20
MrMaooz
Positively Shocking.
 
MrMaooz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MI6 Headquarters
Posts: 15,962
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by charl_huntress View Post
This is certainly off-topic, but is that DiCaprio poplocking?
Just watch the movie Charl, Dicaprio does better and greater things.

__________________
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen."
MrMaooz is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #21
theShape
Creature of Darkness
 
theShape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Inside your mind.
Posts: 10,840
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven X View Post
well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

Oh, come on now...

__________________
Past the point of no return...
theShape is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:43 PM   #22
Raven X
Nevermore
 
Raven X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,602
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
Top of my head?

Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)

Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)
exactly, and I was just thinking of stuff like that, too.

or, they could have written it where Clark makes his way back to his own cabin or wherever he was living at the time.

There he changes clothes then packs up his stuff to hit the road again.

And that would have been a nice visual way of showing how Clark never stays in one place for too long. After doing something heroic, he finds he has to move on to avoid suspicion.

__________________
Straight Edge Soul!!

Disney Lover!!
Raven X is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:44 PM   #23
MrMaooz
Positively Shocking.
 
MrMaooz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MI6 Headquarters
Posts: 15,962
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven X View Post
well, stealing is stealing.

Those clothes didn't belong to Clark, and that family didn't do anything to Clark or anything to "deserve" that.

If they wanted to show Clark taking those clothes out of necessity, they could have added a scene where Clark returns to that home later on and drops off a wad of cash to pay them back.

__________________
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen."
MrMaooz is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:44 PM   #24
InJustice
Side-Kick
 
InJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,991
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
Asking them for the clothes (which shows him by example that there are charitable people around)

Having someone see him all disheveled and give him clothing (same as above)
And Clark's appearance isn't going to set off a couple of alarm bells for these citizens? (black skin, ripped pants). Who's to say that news didn't break of the oil rig crashing + witness accounts of a "saviour"?

Hence, the whole logic of the film in that sequence is for Clark to be incognito.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
Finding them in a Goodwill bin (what's another brand sponsorship amirite)
Seeing as how Clark was in a small town, I highly doubt there are goodwill bins.

InJustice is offline  
Old 01-26-2014, 01:45 PM   #25
Raven X
Nevermore
 
Raven X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,602
Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post
Oh, come on now...

well, for me, it's an honor issue.

stealing is wrong....period.

Clark doesn't have to be perfect, but knowing not to steal should be a basic principle that he should understand.

__________________
Straight Edge Soul!!

Disney Lover!!
Raven X is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.