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Old 01-31-2014, 12:36 PM   #151
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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The photos of him in the trench coat really make me annoyed with their size. I mean, they're supposed to be part turtle, part human, right? So where does the massive size come in? They started out being smaller than a typical human being in the comics, and in most other versions they've been somewhere between their short original size and the size of a typical human being. It makes sense because the mutation means parts of their body are heavily taken from their turtle side, parts are very human, and some parts are somewhere in between. But I don't get how a human being part turtle would make them actually grow taller.
The bolded all I'm seeing in your post, sadly enough. If you just came out and said this every time it would me alot more to the point. However here you go on and try to explain the logic of it all....

I know yoshi is part human in the cartoon or something. Never knew the turtles were. But let's just do with that. At what point during this idea of mutation do you derive what the limitations of height are supposed to be. I'll just cut to the chase and point out the examples.

1. The man bat (from batman)
2. The lizard(particularly from amazing spiderman)
3. The ware wolf
4. The hulk..(this one is clearly asking for trouble.
5. And of course all the wonderful gene and magical human spliced creatures in that awesome Gargoyles show.

Pointless.

I get that they were depicted as short at various points like so
but this is clearly an aesthetic decision, not a rule (such as them being green). So why is it criticism has to stem from the deviation and not from objectivity? If you think they look better short, for some reason that's cool. I for one prefer them to come in in a variety of shapes and sizes. Why? Because sometimes heroes and more to the point brothers in a family do that. It's very interesting.

A good amount of these people are blood related^.

As for why the turtles are bigger than the rat, that might have to do with the fact that it occurs that way in nature.

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Old 01-31-2014, 12:54 PM   #152
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Since it's New York, they probably don't need any sort of cover in the first place. All 4 brothers could probably walk down the street together, and people would just assume there must be another comic convention in town.
There were set pics with Raphael and April out in public surrounded by people wearing various cartoon character costumes. So that idea plays well.

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Old 01-31-2014, 12:57 PM   #153
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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The bolded all I'm seeing in your post, sadly enough. If you just came out and said this every time it would me alot more to the point. However here you go on and try to explain the logic of it all....

I know yoshi is part human in the cartoon or something. Never knew the turtles were. But let's just do with that. At what point during this idea of mutation do you derive what the limitations of height are supposed to be. I'll just cut to the chase and point out the examples.

1. The man bat (from batman)
2. The lizard(particularly from amazing spiderman)
3. The ware wolf
4. The hulk..(this one is clearly asking for trouble.
5. And of course all the wonderful gene and magical human spliced creatures in that awesome Gargoyles show.

Pointless.

I get that they were depicted as short at various points like so
but this is clearly an aesthetic decision, not a rule (such as them being green). So why is it criticism has to stem from the deviation and not from objectivity? If you think they look better short, for some reason that's cool. I for one prefer them to come in in a variety of shapes and sizes. Why? Because sometimes heroes and more to the point brothers in a family do that. It's very interesting.

A good amount of these people are blood related^.

As for why the turtles are bigger than the rat, that might have to do with the fact that it occurs that way in nature.
Wait, what? most of the things in that list are completely incomparable to the turtles' mutations. The Hulk? Seriously? What animal is he supposed to be combined with? A gamma ray? And werewolves aren't mutants, they're supernatural. Since the Lizard is usually the same size as a regular human I assume you're talking about the ASM movie version, and I have the same problem with it there. And I loved ASM.

The mutation typically works by combining aspects of a living organism with that of the last living organism they touched. With Yoshi, it's a rat crossed with a human (or the other way around depending on what version you prefer) and with the turtles it's turtles with a human. The turtles are human sized because by the internal logic of the universe, if they should be any other size it should be smaller, since turtles are small. It's this movie that is making the aesthetic choice and deviating from the pattern previous versions laid down.

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:03 PM   #154
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

Eh, you can also say humans can be very tall, so Turtles mixed with human DNA could end up very tall as well. It's fantasy science. The Turtles started out small and it was just an artistic choice. And throughout the years all the various artists just stuck with this decision.

This movie breaks the norm, and it's not always wrong to try something new. My biggest issue is simply Raph's roid rage. Because like Shredder, it just screams of taking things too far.

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:05 PM   #155
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:20 PM   #156
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Wait, what? most of the things in that list are completely incomparable to the turtles' mutations. The Hulk? Seriously? What animal is he supposed to be combined with? A gamma ray? And werewolves aren't mutants, they're supernatural. Since the Lizard is usually the same size as a regular human I assume you're talking about the ASM movie version, and I have the same problem with it there. And I loved ASM.

The mutation typically works by combining aspects of a living organism with that of the last living organism they touched. With Yoshi, it's a rat crossed with a human (or the other way around depending on what version you prefer) and with the turtles it's turtles with a human. The turtles are human sized because by the internal logic of the universe, if they should be any other size it should be smaller, since turtles are small. It's this movie that is making the aesthetic choice and deviating from the pattern previous versions laid down.
That's why I gave you a list of examples. And the hulk from the first movie was actually spliced with various amphibian dna. The lizard being the same size as human in the comics is pretty much the exact same as the turtles being the same size as humans in this...shorter if you look at the mike proportions and actor. That's not good enough though, you specifically want them short like in the previous patterns to which point I suggested you just say so. There is no grounds for logic here.

Genetic mutation doesn't work that way. If you mix a man with a spider they can turn into a man spider and be 15 feet tall.

You mix a tiger and a lion in nature and the gene that inhibits growth isn't produced. Ergo the liger is much larger than both creatures....there's some logic. As for the turtles, they started young and grew into their form, unlike splinter, moreover reptiles never actually stop growing. That's enough material for anything to happen....'logically'

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:29 PM   #157
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:29 PM   #158
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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That's why I gave you a list of examples. And the hulk from the first movie was actually spliced with various amphibian dna. The lizard being the same size as human in the comics is pretty much the exact same as the turtles being the same size as humans in this...shorter if you look at the mike proportions and actor. That's not good enough though, you specifically want them short like in the previous patterns to which point I suggested you just say so. There is no grounds for logic here.

Genetic mutation doesn't work that way. If you mix a man with a spider they can turn into a man spider and be 15 feet tall.

You mix a tiger and a lion in nature and the gene that inhibits growth isn't produced. Ergo the liger is much larger than both creatures....there's some logic. As for the turtles, they started young and grew into their form, unlike splinter, moreover reptiles never actually stop growing. That's enough material for anything to happen....'logically'
Okay first of all, if you're going to be using the Ang Lee Hulk film as an example of quality filmmaking, you're going to have a bad time. And the ASM lizard size is pretty illogical and unnecessary. The fact that it exists doesn't justify the logic behind it. I love ASM but the lizard being that big was dumb. And you keep saying if I want them to be a certain size I should "just say so" ...which I have? Several times? Have I somehow acted dishonest about my opinions? The series has an internal logic of making the mutations land somewhere between two things being combined, and that's why I think it's silly for them to make the turtles massive. This design breaks that logic, and that bothers me.

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:38 PM   #159
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

I actually like their look. I mean, would I prefer they look like updated versions of their 1990s movie counterparts? Of course. That look was nearly perfect and with today's technology they would be even better.

But I have no problem with the updates. The only thing I'm wondering is how practical it would be to fight in all of that bulk. Like, when they're whooping butts, will Donnie be wearing his night-vision goggles? Will Mikey be wearing the sweatshirt tied around his waist, and the sunglasses hanging off his necklace? I don't mind them being there, but again... seems impractical.

Of course, they're walking, talking, ninja turtles. So. There's that.

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:45 PM   #160
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:46 PM   #161
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Should say "pronto"

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:47 PM   #162
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Nice...can't wait to see more of the figures. Especially Splinter

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:00 PM   #163
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Okay first of all, if you're going to be using the Ang Lee Hulk film as an example of quality filmmaking, you're going to have a bad time. And the ASM lizard size is pretty illogical and unnecessary. The fact that it exists doesn't justify the logic behind it. I love ASM but the lizard being that big was dumb. And you keep saying if I want them to be a certain size I should "just say so" ...which I have? Several times? Have I somehow acted dishonest about my opinions? The series has an internal logic of making the mutations land somewhere between two things being combined, and that's why I think it's silly for them to make the turtles massive. This design breaks that logic, and that bothers me.
First of all:
The turtles are human size as far was we can tell. To argue otherwise is to argue some sort of strawman.

Secondly, I'm not saying you are being dishonest, I said you were better off just saying you want small turtles cause that's what it was before. It's when you started with the genetics theory and how that stuff logically works is when I chimed in.

Thirdly I never said the hulk movie was a mark of quality, just as I'm not saying the turtle movies of old are a mark of quality, just evidence of how things have been presented in sci-fi. And accepted en mass. The gargoyles example particularly.

Lastly,
If a dog and a cat have kids right now, their kids will most likely be an expected size. If you were to pour green radioactive slime on a dog right now, any thing can happen. That's all there is too it. Internal logic or otherwise.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:08 PM   #164
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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These are pretty cool.
I hope some more realistic and detailed figures come out though.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:10 PM   #165
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Cool.
can't wait to see the highly detailed toys. I love the look of Raph

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:17 PM   #166
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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First of all:
The turtles are human size as far was we can tell. To argue otherwise is to argue some sort of strawman.

Secondly, I'm not saying you are being dishonest, I said you were better off just saying you want small turtles cause that's what it was before. It's when you started with the genetics theory and how that stuff logically works is when I chimed in.

Thirdly I never said the hulk movie was a mark of quality, just as I'm not saying the turtle movies of old are a mark of quality, just evidence of how things have been presented in sci-fi. And accepted en mass. The gargoyles example particularly.

Lastly,
If a dog and a cat have kids right now, their kids will most likely be an expected size. If you were to pour green radioactive slime on a dog right now, any thing can happen. That's all there is too it. Internal logic or otherwise.
1. I don't think you know what a straw man is.

2. I think you're confusing real world logic with a fiction's internal logic. Science fiction and fantasy introduce illogical concepts all the time, but they still have to follow their own made-up rules, or else they confuse the audience. The TMNT universe has a pretty standard behavior that the ooze usually follows. What I am saying is that this version of the turtles breaks away from the internal logic that is usually followed when it comes to how that kind of mutation works. When mutations react differently, it's usually explained off as being a different kind of ooze, but the standard stuff has a pretty solid pattern.

3. Those things are all set in their own universes using completely different types of transformations, and as such their rules work differently. The TMNT ooze has a specific way of working, and they either are changing that, or they just don't care. Either way, it bugs me.

4. Again, real world logic vs internal logic. Regardless of what happens to something in real life, a work of fiction sets fictional rules and sticks to them. This series is breaking the established rules and possibly making new ones. Again, that bugs me.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:19 PM   #167
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These official?

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:24 PM   #168
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

Yup they're seen in thst pic from the other day too

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:30 PM   #169
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These official?
They look real, but they're probably just early prototypes. Note Mikey's mismatched colors and different levels of detail.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:37 PM   #170
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

They're probably the cheaper toys. You can tell they don't have much articulation either.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:38 PM   #171
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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1. I don't think you know what a straw man is.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are suggesting I am arguing for turtles that are larger than men? Where you are arguing they should be smaller(due to gene splicing not resulting in a greater sum than the parts, height wise).
I'm not actually arguing for turtles to be larger than men though I clearly see no reason why they can't be. I'm am infact arguing for turtles as they are presented in this film as far as I know. And that is for them to be the size of men. Ergo you are arguing with your own strawman cause I never said they need to be bigger than man.


Quote:
3. Those things are all set in their own universes using completely different types of transformations, and as such their rules work differently. The TMNT ooze has a specific way of working, and they either are changing that, or they just don't care. Either way, it bugs me.
That's great if it bugs, you. If that's all you had said I'd have smiled. However you suggested as to how gene splicing is supposed to work to which end you were wrong. Granted you suggested how it's supposed to work in the turtle universe to which end you really only presented a pattern, not so much an established set of rules.

Quote:
4. Again, real world logic vs internal logic. Regardless of what happens to something in real life, a work of fiction sets fictional rules and sticks to them. This series is breaking the established rules and possibly making new ones. Again, that bugs me.
And what are the established rules in the turtle universe(never mind, you already told me). Better yet, what are the rules the universe of this film you are criticizing but haven't seen...

Furthermore have you been following the new animated show? I only ask cause there is a giant wolf guy running around...

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:40 PM   #172
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

Just heard that those figures are the 12 inch ones. That explains the lack of detail and articulation

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:45 PM   #173
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Yup they're seen in thst pic from the other day too
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They look real, but they're probably just early prototypes. Note Mikey's mismatched colors and different levels of detail.
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They're probably the cheaper toys. You can tell they don't have much articulation either.
Thanks all.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:59 PM   #174
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Default Re: New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

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Correct me if I'm wrong but you are suggesting I am arguing for turtles that are larger than men? Where you are arguing they should be smaller(due to gene splicing not resulting in a greater sum than the parts, height wise).
I'm not actually arguing for turtles to be larger than men though I clearly see no reason why they can't be. I'm am infact arguing for turtles as they are presented in this film as far as I know. And that is for them to be the size of men. Ergo you are arguing with your own strawman cause I never said they need to be bigger than man.
Dude, seriously, none of this makes any sense. I can't even respond to it probably because it's complete and utter nonsense. I'm not even the one who initiated an argument. I stated my opinion and you took issue with it. Now you're trying to convince me I'm arguing against a made-up opinion. Just, no. Not even touching this.

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That's great if it bugs, you. If that's all you had said I'd have smiled. However you suggested as to how gene splicing is supposed to work to which end you were wrong. Granted you suggested how it's supposed to work in the turtle universe to which end you really only presented a pattern, not so much an established set of rules.
I literally started my original post by saying:

Quote:
The photos of him in the trench coat really make me annoyed with their size.
Everything after that is why it bugs me. That being, the ooze has a certain way of working, and this is obviously breaking that pattern. Yeah obviously, this is its own movie and it's free to make everyone who's mutated by it breathe fire if the writers choose, but it's breaking from the established logic of the TMNT universe.

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And what are the established rules in the turtle universe(never mind, you already told me). Better yet, what are the rules the universe of this film you are criticizing but haven't seen...

Furthermore have you been following the new animated show? I only ask cause there is a giant wolf guy running around...
The new show actually made a pretty brilliant explanation that allows them to go wild with mutations, that the ooze that created them is over a decade old, while the ooze that they're currently dealing with is the result of the Kraang's ongoing experiments. It means it can make the mutations do all sorts of different stuff because until season 2, no two mutations were the result of an identical batch of ooze.

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Old 01-31-2014, 03:02 PM   #175
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Just heard that those figures are the 12 inch ones. That explains the lack of detail and articulation
Why would 12 inch figures have little detail and articulation? That's pretty huge for action figures.

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