The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman > Batman World

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2014, 01:32 PM   #401
Green Goblin
Past, Present and Future
 
Green Goblin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,039
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
Yeah, he works much better as a side villain, which is why I wish Nolan swapped out Scarecrow in place of Penguin. I think it would've made more sense.

Scarecrow was embarrassingly underused in all of the movies.
He could be a main villain but he worked for their story in Begins.

The costume was crap. A bag over his head?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
The Sinister Six- The album
Doc Ock Green Goblin Rhino Kraven Mysterio
Featuring hits like "lol haters, we aint giveing up the rights" "Forget you, Sam Raimi" "Marc Webb aint my daddy" "Hey WB, we made a female superhero movie!"

Hitting a store near you in 2016!
Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 01:34 PM   #402
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Yeah, I want the whole nine yards Scarecrow, with a big hat and a ****ing scythe.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 02:37 PM   #403
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Penguin can easily be the "big bad", but in general (nowadays at least) he is an opportunist rather than an architect of circumstances like The Riddler or The Joker. You see it where he becomes the virtual monarch of Gotham during No Man's Land. In that regard, the circumstances for him to thrive probably have to be built around him, in order for him to break out of comfort zone in the Iceberg Lounge.

He could easily have replaced both Talia and Bane, if the whole League of Shadows thing had been written out of TDKR.

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 06:45 PM   #404
Stu
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 56
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3


Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 10:06 PM   #405
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec View Post
He could easily have replaced both Talia and Bane, if the whole League of Shadows thing had been written out of TDKR.
But then you would have basically had the plot of Batman Returns!

Penguin rises out of a sewer, threatens the rich elite, steals the batmobile... Catwoman shows up but only teams up with him for a little while...

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 12:36 AM   #406
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,034
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Which is pretty much why I think Returns was probably the best way (in theory) to make Penguin the main bad of a movie.

Obviously he's been used as a big bad plenty in the comics, I know that. He's one of the most popular villains. But no matter what, it has to be something more than "funny looking gangster/aristocrat with an inferiority complex" to warrant being the main villain of a 200 million dollar action movie. There has to be something truly insidious about him, otherwise to me he's just a dressed up version of a mobster. Burton got that, whether one agrees or not with his interpretation. There's a depth to the character to be sure, but from a plot standpoint I just tend to think that many of the other villains offer more excitement in terms of the types of plots they can generate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec View Post
He could easily have replaced both Talia and Bane, if the whole League of Shadows thing had been written out of TDKR.
I'm assuming you mean if they were replaced by both the Penguin and an earthquake?

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:43 AM   #407
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Yes, or bombs or whatever other plot device is preferred.

It would be similar to BR, but I suppose the point I seek to make is that The Penguin works as a "big bad" only in relatively confined circumstances.

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 07:06 AM   #408
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Ra's was a main villain in Begins and he was basically just a guy who ran a league of assassins. But Scarecrow was thrown into the mix to liven things up.

I think Penguin works as the main villain so long as you throw one more eccentric villain into the mix.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 07:15 AM   #409
Pfeiffer-Pfan
Meow.
 
Pfeiffer-Pfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,087
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3




__________________
Michelle Pfeiffer:
Cool Rider, Catwoman, Diamond and all round Goddess
http://pfeiffer-pfan.tumblr.com/

I'll miss you dad! xx

Pfeiffer-Pfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 07:50 AM   #410
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,034
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

I feel like Ra's training Bruce in the first act lends a lot more weight to his character though. There's the whole surrogate father/son falling out that adds a lot to the story and you couldn't really get that with Penguin.

I think if Cobblepot could've replaced anyone in Begins it would be Falcone. Bruce could've entered the Iceberg Lounge to have that face to face moment with him.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:49 PM   #411
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Ra's was a main villain in Begins and he was basically just a guy who ran a league of assassins. But Scarecrow was thrown into the mix to liven things up.

I think Penguin works as the main villain so long as you throw one more eccentric villain into the mix.
But Ra's is prima facie a powerful figure. Everything about him connotes a kind of hidden, mystical, ancient power. The Penguin gives the impression of being rather ridiculous or even pitiful. A cold black heart beats beneath, but it probably takes the intrusion of external factors for his own brand of evil to wax into a serious "force" in a narrative.

He works very well as a more minor and ambiguous character, too. We have seen Harvey Dent tell the tale of a hero who becomes a monster; it would be interesting to see, over the span of a franchise, The Penguin be a petty crook who becomes Gotham's apex crime lord.

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:59 PM   #412
ThePhantasm
The Shadow Knows
 
ThePhantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Penguin was ridiculous and pitiful in Returns, but not so often in the history of the comics.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
ThePhantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 03:07 PM   #413
Green Goblin
Past, Present and Future
 
Green Goblin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,039
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
Yeah, I want the whole nine yards Scarecrow, with a big hat and a ****ing scythe.
Anything is better than a simple bag. I wonder what the costume department were like,

"Scarecrow costume, how can we make it scary?" "Put a bag on his head!"

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
The Sinister Six- The album
Doc Ock Green Goblin Rhino Kraven Mysterio
Featuring hits like "lol haters, we aint giveing up the rights" "Forget you, Sam Raimi" "Marc Webb aint my daddy" "Hey WB, we made a female superhero movie!"

Hitting a store near you in 2016!
Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 03:25 PM   #414
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

They are lucky that they had the benefit of Cillian Murphy, who was magnetic in the role. But the costume was another missed visual opportunity.

I imagine that Nolan's Penguin would have been about 5'9".

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 03:28 PM   #415
theShape
Creature of Darkness
 
theShape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Inside your mind.
Posts: 11,177
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
Anything is better than a simple bag. I wonder what the costume department were like,

"Scarecrow costume, how can we make it scary?" "Put a bag on his head!"
Nolan was too focused on "teh realism" with Scarecrow. But overall, I love what they did with his voice and the hallucinations people had of him.

__________________
Past the point of no return...
theShape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 03:56 PM   #416
Green Goblin
Past, Present and Future
 
Green Goblin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,039
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by theShape View Post
Nolan was too focused on "teh realism" with Scarecrow. But overall, I love what they did with his voice and the hallucinations people had of him.
The Batsuit still looked Batman-ish. The characters and setting of Nolan's world is grounded but it's still got fear gas, people comming back from the dead, fancy gadgets etc.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesConceptz View Post
Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
The Sinister Six- The album
Doc Ock Green Goblin Rhino Kraven Mysterio
Featuring hits like "lol haters, we aint giveing up the rights" "Forget you, Sam Raimi" "Marc Webb aint my daddy" "Hey WB, we made a female superhero movie!"

Hitting a store near you in 2016!
Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:07 PM   #417
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 37,517
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Nobody came back from the dead, and fear gas is just a hallucinogen, which very much exist in the world.

The character of Scarecrow was designed that his Scarecrow persona was a secret. So it made sense for him to slip on just a mask when he did it. Imagine him getting dressed into full Scarecrow garb in scenes like where he visits Falcone in Police custody lol.

His Scarecrow look has been adapted into the comics, too;





Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec View Post
it would be interesting to see, over the span of a franchise, The Penguin be a petty crook who becomes Gotham's apex crime lord.
Watch the new Gotham TV show. Looks like that's what they're going to be doing with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec View Post
I imagine that Nolan's Penguin would have been about 5'9".
Again watch the new Gotham TV show to see that.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker

Last edited by The Joker; 06-07-2014 at 04:11 PM.
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:19 PM   #418
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

I don't see why the incorporation of something into the comics that was undesirable in a movie is seen as some kind of validation of it. That obviously occurs for purely commercial reasons.

I would love to see the Gotham show, but I barely watch TV and I'm not even sure it is shown in this domicile.

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:19 PM   #419
Stu
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 56
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3


Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:27 PM   #420
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 37,517
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec View Post
I don't see why the incorporation of something into the comics that was undesirable in a movie is seen as some kind of validation of it. That obviously occurs for purely commercial reasons.
First of all it wasn't undesirable in the movie. There was no backlash or outcry about it. Second, if it was undesirable then it wouldn't be used in the comics. If they ever start putting nipples on the Bat suits then we can worry. Third, that particular comic panel is from a Batman comic that came out last year. So it's hardly for commercial reasons when Begins came out 8 years ago. It shows that the DC folk think it's a cool valid look for Scarecrow if they're still using it.

Quote:
I would love to see the Gotham show, but I barely watch TV and I'm not even sure it is shown in this domicile.
Watch it on-line. That's what I do for shows that don't get shown here.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:31 PM   #421
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Well, they're mistaken.

The last I read of Scarecrow, he was sewing his lips together. I think it represents the focus of the new 52 on a squarely teenage audience, more than anything.

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:34 PM   #422
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 37,517
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Mistaken about what? Liking something that you don't?

I didn't know teenagers were into sewing lips together. Maybe that's why the Joker cut off his own face. They're into facial mutilation

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:35 PM   #423
Travesty
TEOL
 
Travesty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16,151
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Who's writing that new take on the Scarecrow in the New 52?

__________________

Travesty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:41 PM   #424
theShape
Creature of Darkness
 
theShape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Inside your mind.
Posts: 11,177
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by regwec
Well, they're mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Mistaken about what? Liking something that you don't?

__________________
Past the point of no return...
theShape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 04:48 PM   #425
regwec
Shakespearo
 
regwec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Herne's Oak
Posts: 22,899
Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

Well, yes. Is it really necessary to state that an evidently subjective view is a matter of opinion?

Is "in your opinion" really a credible retort outside the school playground?

__________________
Better Off ----> Out
regwec is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.