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Old 02-05-2014, 01:21 AM   #26
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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Just wanted to post these 2 photos, Cavill is the Man of Steel. Can't wait till MOS2
This was definitely one of my personal favorites:


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Old 02-05-2014, 01:24 AM   #27
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You know, I think it was a combination of an innate goodness, some teachings by the Kents (Pa kent telling Clark that he shouldn't fight the kid at the garage and that "there's more at stake than just our lives", Ma coming for him in the closet), and some observations of goodness (Pete Ross helping clark up, fisherman pushing clark out of the way).

Also, I think life experience would help. He would feel certain things after making these saves and something inside him would tell him "this is right. Keep doing it no matter what anyone tells you." If he's doing stuff like this his whole life, he'd get a feel for it and the relief in peoples' eyes.
The Pete Ross stuff actually feels like one of the more important motivating factors for Superman's faith in humanity when you think about it. In the MOS interpretation, Pete starts off as a bully but ultimately becomes a kinder person thanks to Clark.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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This was definitely one of my personal favorites:

That is one of the best shots of the suit. The colors are deep and beautiful.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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The Pete Ross stuff actually feels like one of the more important motivating factors for Superman's faith in humanity when you think about it. In the MOS interpretation, Pete starts off as a bully but ultimately becomes a kinder person thanks to Clark.
Yeah, I think Pete Ross was really important. Especially when Lex Luthor comes into play. Pete taught Clark that a bad person, a bully, could be redeemed. Perhaps Clark will think Lex can be as well...

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

lee, I think the fact that Jon Kent is ingraining into Clark that he must decide for himself what his character should be and that he must take great care and thought to how his existence and power will shape the world says a lot and it is a very moral outlook. It was apparent to me that Kent was teaching moral and ethical lessons about how we should act and treat people in this life. But he also showed and awareness that it can be hard to know exactly what feels right in any given situation if you think on the consequences. I also really approved of it because while it was wise counsel to Clark, it's also just a generally wise line of thinking for anyone. It's real "The Heroes Journey" stuff. We all may not have the inherent power or infuence a Superman has, but we are all affecting this world one way or another. Understanding that it is our choices that bring negative or positive consequences into the world and lives of other people and that they define our self image and character all sound like a well thought out moral view to me.

But for Clark this is easier said than done considering how much of an influence his power and existence will have on the world, so much like his Earth father, Clark has to balance things out in a complex world of 7 billion other people.

I got all that from the one scene at the junk yard. It's why I just have to shake my head each time I see comments like "Costner's Kent was a paranoid sociopath" or "They had his father teach him to be afraid and that's it." Bovine excriment, I say.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:34 AM   #31
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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That is one of the best shots of the suit. The colors are deep and beautiful.
Yeah, one of the forum members modified/improved the colors for that particular image; and I agree, it's spot-on for Superman!

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:41 AM   #32
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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lee, I think the fact that Jon Kent is ingraining into Clark that he must decide for himself what his character should be and that he must take great care and thought to how his existence and power will shape the world says a lot and it is a very moral outlook. It was apparent to me that Kent was teaching moral and ethical lessons about how we should act and treat people in this life. But he also showed and awareness that it can be hard to know exactly what feels right in any given situation if you think on the consequences. I also really approved of it because while it was wise counsel to Clark, it's also just a generally wise line of thinking for anyone. It's real "The Heroes Journey" stuff. We all may not have the inherent power or infuence a Superman has, but we are all affecting this world one way or another. Understanding that it is our choices that bring negative or positive consequences into the world and lives of other people and that they define our self image and character all sound like a well thought out moral view to me.

But for Clark this is easier said than done considering how much of an influence his power and existence will have on the world, so much like his Earth father, Clark has to balance things out in a complex world of 7 billion other people.

I got all that from the one scene at the junk yard. It's why I just have to shake my head each time I see comments like "Costner's Kent was a paranoid sociopath" or "They had his father teach him to be afraid and that's it." Bovine excriment, I say.
Well said, Sir. It pains me a little when people call Pa Kent a paranoid, abusive father or a sociopath.

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Yeah, one of the forum members modified/improved the colors for that particular image; and I agree, it's spot-on for Superman!
It's modified? Bummer. Thought that was another example of its chameleon-like colors.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

Didn't someone once state on how the moment where Clark was pushing himself up against the gravity beam in order to fly up and destroy it was also a metaphor on how he had been weighed down his entire life by his secrets the fear of being exposed and not being accepted, only for him to rise up to the challenge and cement his place within society?

It's definitely a great metaphor and you could really feel that the only way Superman/Clark could ever overcome the World Engine was by being assured of who he was and what he was really fighting for.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:45 AM   #34
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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Well said, Sir. It pains me a little when people call Pa Kent a paranoid, abusive father or a sociopath.

My mother, who barely knows about Superman...when she first saw MOS and the scene featuring Clark arguing with his dad and Jonathan sacrificing himself for Clark's secret...the first thing she said to that was how it was very apparent on how much Jonathan loved Clark like his own.

A part of me thinks at times on how lucky Jor-el should consider himself and how Clark was adopted and raised by a very kind a loving group of parents. Imagine what Clark could have become if he had been discovered by the wrong people.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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My mother, who barely knows about Superman...when she first saw MOS and the scene featuring Clark arguing with his dad and Jonathan sacrificing himself for Clark's secret...the first thing she said to that was how it was very apparent on how much Jonathan loved Clark like his own.

A part of me thinks at times on how lucky Jor-el should consider himself and how Clark was adopted and raised by a very kind a loving group of parents. Imagine what Clark could have become if he had been discovered by the wrong people.
I truly believe that Pa Kent died because he wanted to save Clark from extreme hardships that he assumed would arise as a result of his exposure to humanity. He died for his adopted son. And it makes me a tad misty because...I know my parents would do it for me.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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I truly believe that Pa Kent died because he wanted to save Clark from extreme hardships that he assumed would arise as a result of his exposure to humanity. He died for his adopted son. And it makes me a tad misty because...I know my parents would do it for me.
Indeed; I remember someone else saying that Pa Kent, whether he knew it or not, really did play an important role that allowed Clark to become Superman. I'm assuming his death is what motivated Clark to eventually travel the world which we all know on where that eventually led him to. Plus, like you said, Clark wasn't emotionally or mentally ready to handle the crap that would come along with being exposed as he was when he was older.

And yeah, I remember a lot of people crying in my theater when Pa Kent died, along with seeing Clark's reaction to it.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

One thing I'm not totally sure about is Jor-El and Lara choosing not to travel away with their son. I like the scenario where it's pure desperation and only have time to send Kal off. Though the delayed Krypton destruction was something different.

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Old 02-05-2014, 01:58 AM   #38
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One thing I'm not totally sure about is Jor-El and Lara choosing not to travel away with their son. I like the scenario where it's pure desperation and only have time to send Kal off. Though the delayed Krypton destruction was something different.
I think it was mentioned in the film and in interviews with Zack/Goyer explaining the situation...on how, since Jor-el and Lara knew that they were the products of the bad system that led to Krypton's downfall, they should be tied to its fate.... well that, and how they felt that them being present in Clark's life would hamper his ability to choose for himself.

Basically, they wanted Clark to have a fresh start and not be influenced by anything directly related to the old Krypton system.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:00 AM   #39
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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And yeah, I remember a lot of people crying in my theater when Pa Kent died, along with seeing Clark's reaction to it.
Cavill's acting in that scene was excellent. Pure heart break on his face. I hope that even people that didn't like the scene appreciate the acting.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:00 AM   #40
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

However, from the photo album, Clark seemed like having a happy childhood.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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However, from the photo album, Clark seemed like having a happy childhood.
Yeah, I definitely think there was more happy moments and advice from his parents that wasn't shown, but some people seem to want more to be shown. I would have liked a bit more. I enjoyed the flashbacks.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:10 AM   #42
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 4

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I think it was mentioned in the film and in interviews with Zack/Goyer explaining the situation...on how, since Jor-el and Lara knew that they were the products of the bad system that led to Krypton's downfall, they should be tied to its fate.... well that, and how they felt that them being present in Clark's life would hamper his ability to choose for himself.

Basically, they wanted Clark to have a fresh start and not be influenced by anything directly related to the old Krypton system.
Still think it's a lame excuse. There are already tremendous risks in sending your son out on a galaxy trip, much less him growing up as an alien and potentially suffering. I can't for the life of me figure out how the "benefits" of a clean slate could ever amount to outweighing the importance in ensuring your child's safety and upbringing.

The El's solution (let's die!) to their trepidations are more than a little dramatic. Dogmatic society having a bad influence? Good thing Krypton is going to explode soon. Kryptonian parents possibly clouding a fresh childhood? Change your parenting. Fear of inhibiting your child's choices? Literally every parent goes through this. Again, alter your character and parenting style accordingly. There are not dire factors which approach the consideration of death.

It's an all-around silly revision. Perhaps the intent was to paint Kryptonians as hard-headed and overly pretentious in their beliefs, but honestly it came off as outright stupid.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:14 AM   #43
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Crowe had said that to his mind, given that Jor-el was living with the knowledge that his planet and race were doomed, that there is "a touch of madness" to Jor-el. I think it's reasonable to think that Jor-el's views and actions in MOS are coming from a mind filled with both a mentally taxing grief that his peoples way of life has also brought about their end and that he's seeing a sliver of hope in his own son... Well I think Jor-el's choices came from out of a psyche with metric tons of pressure on it. Choosing to send Kal-el to Earth alone to be a lifeboat for all of Krypton's future genetic heirs is a tad irrational but there is a kind of desperate reasoning to it.

If I am remembering it right, Clark is never made aware that he has been bonded with the Codex, right? I hope that can come into play somehow.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:16 AM   #44
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I think the Kryptonians were portrayed as somewhat "stuck" because of genetic control. They probably couldn't imagine how they would survive in a world that wasn't comprised of the boundaries they were designed for. They were made to fill a specific role on Krypton only and may be pretty limited in their ability to envision change for themselves.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:29 AM   #45
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Crowe had said that to his mind, given that Jor-el was living with the knowledge that his planet and race were doomed, that there is "a touch of madness" to Jor-el. I think it's reasonable to think that Jor-el's views and actions in MOS are coming from a mind filled with both a mentally taxing grief that his peoples way of life has also brought about their end and that he's seeing a sliver of hope in his own son... Well I think Jor-el's choices came from out of a psyche with metric tons of pressure on it. Choosing to send Kal-el to Earth alone to be a lifeboat for all of Krypton's future genetic heirs is a tad irrational but there is a kind of desperate reasoning to it.
I'm just not seeing where the desperation would be. They chose to stay, so they've just intentionally thrown the fate of their son (and all of future Krypton) to chance. These are things which could have been prevented if they cared to survive. It seems like they just made their problems worse, all for the hopefully idealistic view that Clark will find the right path himself. Talk about playing the odds. How unfortunate would it have been had Clark never found the scout ship?


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I think the Kryptonians were portrayed as somewhat "stuck" because of genetic control. They probably couldn't imagine how they would survive in a world that wasn't comprised of the boundaries they were designed for. They were made to fill a specific role on Krypton only and may be pretty limited in their ability to envision change for themselves.
Again though, would that really supersede the innate willingness to live, if only to ensure your son's safety and livelihood? Especially if both Jor-El and Lara have shown they can outpower their genetics by illegally having a child through natural means?

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:37 AM   #46
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Again though, would that really supersede the innate willingness to live, if only to ensure your son's safety and livelihood? Especially if both Jor-El and Lara have shown they can outpower their genetics by illegally having a child through natural means?
They may not have that "innate willingness to live." It may be innate for humans considering they aren't genetically engineered, but perhaps not for Kryptonians. Also Jor said he wanted Clark to learn how to be human. Jor seems to have an idealistic view of Earth, which makes sense given that Krypton has succumbed to fatal flaws. Of course Earth seems like a better opportunity. He doesn't want Clark to be touched in any way by this negative, dying society until he has learned what it means to be human. He is so disillusioned by what happened to his own planet that he doesn't want Clark to know any products of its failure, even his own parents. Well, not right away anyways.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:47 AM   #47
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They may not have that "innate willingness to live." It may be innate for humans considering they aren't genetically engineered, but perhaps not for Kryptonians.
Considering they were all bred for specific tasks, not having a survival instinct would be counterproductive to accomplishing anything. In any case I do defer to the fact the El's broke the rules and conceived Kal in the first place. That's clear evidence they weren't wholly bound to Krypton's rules or its genetic engineering.

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Also Jor said he wanted Clark to learn how to be human. Jor seems to have an idealistic view of Earth, which makes sense given that Krypton has succumbed to fatal flaws. Of course Earth seems like a better opportunity. He doesn't want Clark to be touched in any way by this negative, dying society until he has learned what it means to be human. He is so disillusioned by what happened to his own planet that he doesn't want Clark to know any products of its failure, even his own parents.

Well, not right away anyways.
What's stopping Jor-El from hiding this from Kal? Or what's stopping the El's from letting the Kent's raise Kal, and simply keep an eye on him from afar just in case anything goes awry?

I get the rationale behind all their decisions, I'm simply stating they're very flimsy and easy to dispute with just a few seconds of critical thinking. For every step of logic in their actions, there are dozens of more appealing alternatives which were conveniently ignored to service the specific narrative. That's what bugs me. Had they stuck with the tried and true Kryptonian-urgency narrative, none of these logical gaps has any chance of undermining plot threads.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:53 AM   #48
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I think the desperation for Jor-el came from realizing that it was the very culture of Krypton that had brought about it's doom in this version. For him, this was the Apocalypse, in many senses of the word. I am not saying I would come to the same conclusions and make the same choices as Crowe's Jor-el did in the same situation, but I can easily wrap my head around his mindset that a totally clean break is what Kal-el and the theoretical future generations he was harboring needed. On multiple levels it worked for me.

Besides the need in almost any modern telling of the mythos to come up with a reason why the two brightest people on the planet didn't build a ship for three is always going to be there.

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:57 AM   #49
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Considering they were all bred for specific tasks, not having a survival instinct would be counterproductive to accomplishing anything. In any case I do defer to the fact the El's broke the rules and conceived Kal in the first place. That's clear evidence they weren't wholly bound to Krypton's rules or its genetic engineering.


What's stopping Jor-El from hiding this from Kal? Or what's stopping the El's from letting the Kent's raise Kal, and simply keep an eye on him from afar just in case anything goes awry?

I get the rationale behind all their decisions, I'm simply stating they're very flimsy and easy to dispute with just a few seconds of critical thinking. For every step of logic in their actions, there are dozens of more appealing alternatives which were conveniently ignored to service the specific narrative. That's what bugs me. Had they stuck with the tried and true Kryptonian-urgency narrative, none of these logical gaps has any chance of undermining plot threads.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have survival instincts as a whole. I think it could depend on whether having certain instincts is advantageous to their role in society or not. A soldier might have a stronger drive in that area. And Jor is supposed to fill the scientist role. Them figuring out how to have a child could be another scientific feat for Jor and hence in his genetic character.

But I get what you're saying. Although things can work as written, it delves into some complex ideas concerning just how much genetic control Kryptonians are under and just how much forethought they are capable of within their defined roles. It would have been a lot easier, simpler and more widely accepted if they just used the usual urgency reason. It could have also made for some good drama and planetary collapse scenes.

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Old 02-05-2014, 03:00 AM   #50
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Besides the need in almost any modern telling of the mythos to come up with a reason why the two brightest people on the planet didn't build a ship for three is always going to be there.
Time and resources. It's both universal and timeless in its relevance, so I'm not sure why anyone would try and "improve" on it. I think MOS just encapsulated the whole "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" mantra.

I can more easily understand a brilliant scientist failing to save himself and wife due to grave urgency, than I can in him taking the time to plan it out and come to the conclusion willfully dying is an acceptable solution. Am I crazy?

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