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Old 02-26-2014, 11:26 PM   #276
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
TFA had a ton more to cover than TWS does. I think Thor's problem wasn't the 115 mins. I just think scripting it over 2 days with little time progression made it feel short. Had they skipped time or something, without changing the run time, it would have worked better. TDW could have been a tad longer. There I agree. That said, I don't think 128 mins is a short movie.
I agree. See my edit.

128mins isn't a short film. Nor is it long. It is more around the standard blockbuster length, especially when you consider the credit length. But it all depends on the story and how they work it. If it all falls into place then it could very well be the perfect length. Afterall the longest Star Wars is AotC and the shortest is Star Wars. Look how that worked out.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:28 PM   #277
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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I agree. See my edit.

128mins isn't a short film. Nor is it long. It is more around the standard blockbuster length, especially when you consider the credit length. But it all depends on the story and how they work it. If it all falls into place then it could very well be the perfect length. Afterall the longest Star Wars is AotC and the shortest is Star Wars. Look how that worked out.
Exactly! Many great films were made at around 2hrs. Like you said, it is all about pacing. I believe Spider-Man 2 was 128 mins. Spider-Man 3 was actually LONGER. Which would you rather watch? LOL.

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Old 02-27-2014, 12:05 AM   #278
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

I think the length thing, especially with adaptations, became a thing when we started seeing these films attempt to pack a lot of character and story into the "standard" run length. You lose so much character like that. So it started to be a concern.

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Old 02-27-2014, 12:21 AM   #279
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Originally Posted by Minxie View Post
In that "Conspiracy" featurette I noticed a small change between the trailer and what appears to be the finished scene. Here's a gif:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Featurette:


And this is from the original theatrical trailer:


So I guess that's how Sam and Natasha escape that car wreck. But my goodness that does not look safe lol.

Just wanted to amend this little bitty spoiler I posted earlier thanks to something I saw on tumblr just now:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
So if this post is correct then Steve is also in the car when this happens. I was never quite sure because I could only see Natasha and Sam before but in a close up of that shot of them busting out the side of the car you can clearly see Steve's blue jacket and his hair.
And my favorite thing is that Sam has his arms protectively around both of them awww


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Old 02-27-2014, 12:32 AM   #280
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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I think the length thing, especially with adaptations, became a thing when we started seeing these films attempt to pack a lot of character and story into the "standard" run length. You lose so much character like that. So it started to be a concern.
I get that, but within the superhero movie, we only have a handful of movies that exceeded 130mins in their first cut. Only ones I can think of off hand that were over 130mins in initial cut were X2, X-Men: First Class (but those were BARELY over), Hulk, Superman Returns, Spider-Man 3, Watchmen, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, The Avengers, and Man of Steel. That is at the top of my head, though. Superman: The Movie didn't reach its 143 mins until a later extended cut. When you consider how many superhero movies we've seen, especially post 2000, that's not that many. This list is interesting to me because many of these are fairly divisive, also. But, we've had tons of quality CBMs over the years not on this list. That's why the runtime thing I always shake my head until I see the movie.


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Old 02-27-2014, 12:44 AM   #281
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Yeah, but how many great superhero films are there? That there haven't been many isn't really an issue, as you the three most universally beloved on the list. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and the Avengers are the gold standard for most. X2 and First Class are regarded as the best of the X-Men films.

If we did a comparison, in terms of percentages, I'd think there be more superhero films under 130min that "failed" in terms of quality.

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Old 02-27-2014, 12:52 AM   #282
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Yeah, but how many great superhero films are there? That there haven't been many isn't really an issue, as you the three most universally beloved on the list. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and the Avengers are the gold standard for most. X2 and First Class are regarded as the best of the X-Men films.

If we did a comparison, in terms of percentages, I'd think there be more superhero films under 130min that "failed" in terms of quality.
Most certainly, but I give a partial pass on some because many of the truly horrendous ones were either made pre-2000 or fell victim to Tom Rothman. Normally, the awful ones were closer to 90-100mins. Most that fall into the 110-130min range are not awful (but, some notable exceptions). Particularly more recently as these films have gotten better more consistently over time. Just in the same runtime range Cap 2 now has, I'd throw in Spider-Man 2 and Iron Man as other great ones most would agree upon. Superman: The Movie may squeek in as well.

Like I said, in the case of X2 and FC...those are basically 130 min movies (they're both around 132mins...so close enough!) This discussion is making me want to bust out my bluray/DVD CBM collection, LOL!

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Old 02-27-2014, 01:04 AM   #283
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Most certainly, but I give a partial pass on some because many of the truly horrendous ones were either made pre-2000 or fell victim to Tom Rothman. Normally, the awful ones were closer to 90-100mins. Most that fall into the 110-130min range are not awful (but, some notable exceptions). Particularly more recently as these films have gotten better more consistently over time. Just in the same runtime range Cap 2 now has, I'd throw in Spider-Man 2 and Iron Man as other great ones most would agree upon. Superman: The Movie may squeek in as well.

Like I said, in the case of X2 and FC...those are basically 130 min movies (they're both around 132mins...so close enough!) This discussion is making me want to bust out my bluray/DVD CBM collection, LOL!
The evolution of the superhero film has come with the material being taken more seriously and as a result the length has been going up.

TDK, Begins, the Avengesr are layered films with many balls in the air. They need the length. SM2 and IM are far more "simple" and thus thrive in that regard. They don't have longs of characters.

128mins for TWS at first glance feels far more appropriate then the length of TFA or either Thor film.

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Old 02-27-2014, 01:12 AM   #284
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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The evolution of the superhero film has come with the material being taken more seriously and as a result the length has been going up.

TDK, Begins, the Avengesr are layered films with many balls in the air. They need the length. SM2 and IM are far more "simple" and thus thrive in that regard. They don't have longs of characters.
Exactly! Avengers can't work at around 2hrs. The project is simply too big. Runtime in cinema largely are going up in every genre, honestly. 2.5-3hr films used to be very rare. Now we get them fairly commonly.

To this point, I don't see anything in Cap 2 that makes me think it can't work in 128mins. I don't think any Marvel film outside Avengers honestly needed 2hr 15 or more length. Even Thor: The Dark World, I think an extra 10-15 mins would have done the job. Some of the problems in prior MCU films I don't feel were products of runtime, but flaws at a conceptual level. Probably the closest solo that could have benefited from a lengthy runtime was likely TFA, and that was because Cap's entire history as a superhero in WWII needed to be told in 1 film. But, as my sig suggests, I still loved it (as well as the MCU movies in general)!!!! Loved the retro-action vibe in TFA


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Old 02-27-2014, 01:36 AM   #285
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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That will be after the end credits...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Cap, Widow, Falcon, Fury and Bucky in a Thai restaurant.


And then Hawkeye comes in.
"Sorry guys, saw your message only now. What did I miss?"

And everyone glares.


Also, since I just printed it and had it open anyway, the relevant excerpts of my invitation, just in case anyone wants formal proof for the runtime.



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Old 02-27-2014, 02:10 AM   #286
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxie View Post
Just wanted to amend this little bitty spoiler I posted earlier thanks to something I saw on tumblr just now:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
So if this post is correct then Steve is also in the car when this happens. I was never quite sure because I could only see Natasha and Sam before but in a close up of that shot of them busting out the side of the car you can clearly see Steve's blue jacket and his hair.
And my favorite thing is that Sam has his arms protectively around both of them awww

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Looks like Steve is breaking them out of their careening car after WS pulled out the steering wheel/drive column from the clip we saw in the trailers.

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Old 02-27-2014, 02:17 AM   #287
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Looks like Steve is breaking them out of their careening car after WS pulled out the steering wheel/drive column from the clip we saw in the trailers.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Looks like Falcon bailing Widow out to me. Steve isn't in that car.

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Old 02-27-2014, 02:42 AM   #288
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Exactly! Avengers can't work at around 2hrs. The project is simply too big. Runtime in cinema largely are going up in every genre, honestly. 2.5-3hr films used to be very rare. Now we get them fairly commonly.

To this point, I don't see anything in Cap 2 that makes me think it can't work in 128mins. I don't think any Marvel film outside Avengers honestly needed 2hr 15 or more length. Even Thor: The Dark World, I think an extra 10-15 mins would have done the job. Some of the problems in prior MCU films I don't feel were products of runtime, but flaws at a conceptual level. Probably the closest solo that could have benefited from a lengthy runtime was likely TFA, and that was because Cap's entire history as a superhero in WWII needed to be told in 1 film. But, as my sig suggests, I still loved it (as well as the MCU movies in general)!!!! Loved the retro-action vibe in TFA
I agree that most problems are conceptually. They start with the script phase. TDW feels like an ensemble pieces that was stripped down to the bare minimum in terms of anyone not named Thor, Loki or Darcy.

And I am right there with you with TFA. The more I watch it the more I enjoy it. Was on FX tonight before the new episode of the Americans, and I ended up watching a lot of it again. I could watch Evans, Atwell and Jones in those roles all day. It has its flaws, but it really works on the whole for me. But I also love that TWS is trying to be something completely different. It needs to be.

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:04 AM   #289
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxie View Post
In that "Conspiracy" featurette I noticed a small change between the trailer and what appears to be the finished scene. Here's a gif:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Featurette:


And this is from the original theatrical trailer:


So I guess that's how Sam and Natasha escape that car wreck. But my goodness that does not look safe lol.

Great catch Minxie.. time to appoint you as the MovieGif Master of the forum

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:12 AM   #290
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxie View Post
Just wanted to amend this little bitty spoiler I posted earlier thanks to something I saw on tumblr just now:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
So if this post is correct then Steve is also in the car when this happens. I was never quite sure because I could only see Natasha and Sam before but in a close up of that shot of them busting out the side of the car you can clearly see Steve's blue jacket and his hair.
And my favorite thing is that Sam has his arms protectively around both of them awww

isnt there a
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
scene of widow picking up falcon and shield, but i thought that was in the start of the movie, maybe its on the way back

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:16 AM   #291
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

back to the run time discussion again>?

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:24 AM   #292
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Looks like Falcon bailing Widow out to me. Steve isn't in that car.
Nope. The answer lies in Total Film UK April Issue. They describe the scene in question, and steve is in the car with widow and wilson

(page 61)

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Old 02-27-2014, 05:15 AM   #293
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Nope. The answer lies in Total Film UK April Issue. They describe the scene in question, and steve is in the car with widow and wilson

(page 61)
There's a picture of that somewhere.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I recall seeing Steve's shield in the front passenger side window in one of the ads. Presumably they land on the shield when they tumble out of the car and it absorbs the force of the impact.

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Old 02-27-2014, 05:17 AM   #294
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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back to the run time discussion again>?
Maybe it will go away if the rest of us just ignore it. Same with the "sexy Black Widow" whining.

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:03 AM   #295
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

wasn't the runtime confirmed to be 136mins the other day, its listed as 135mins in aus:

http://www.eventcinemas.com.au/movie...Winter-Soldier

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:25 AM   #296
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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back to the run time discussion again>?
The only way we're ever going to get a truly great superhero movie is if it has a 3-hour runtime and has a hard R rating!!!!

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:39 AM   #297
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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wasn't the runtime confirmed to be 136mins the other day, its listed as 135mins in aus:

http://www.eventcinemas.com.au/movie...Winter-Soldier
It's a cinema site, they're not always reliable. Very possible they just copied that from that wrong tweet, if it was wrong. The invitation I posted a few hours ago is an official Marvel document, and it says 128... And as I said, it's highly unlikely, they cut something out for the press viewings. All Marvel flicks I saw in press viewings were always complete.

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:44 AM   #298
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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Originally Posted by Repulsor Blast View Post
Nope. The answer lies in Total Film UK April Issue. They describe the scene in question, and steve is in the car with widow and wilson

(page 61)
I read the description in the issue and omg
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Natasha is in the back seat but she ends up getting tossed into Steve's lap in the front. That is adorable. Well ok the way I'm picturing it makes it seem adorable to me but idk if the scene is meant to be a humorous/cute one or not lol. It'll probably be a scary close call, like Natasha nearly goes flying through the windshield but Steve grabs her just in time.

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Old 02-27-2014, 08:58 AM   #299
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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There's a picture of that somewhere.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I recall seeing Steve's shield in the front passenger side window in one of the ads. Presumably they land on the shield when they tumble out of the car and it absorbs the force of the impact.
On CBM, Marvel_Freshman's hi-res caps, you can pretty visibly see Cap's shield in the car as it flips over. I'd link but I don't think CBM shows up on this site.

But it is so, so pretty in HD!!

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Old 02-27-2014, 09:02 AM   #300
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

Regarding runtime (and someone has probably already said something similar, I only skimmed the past few pages), my personal view? A movie should be as long as the story needs it to be. For some films, that might be 3+ hours, other films might only need 90 min (or less) to tell the story they want to tell. Just because a movie is long does not necessarily make it better nor does it being short necessarily make it bad.

Regardless of what TWS's final runtime is, I'm going to wait and see the film, see the story, see how it's paced, before possibly complaining that it needed to be longer.

Just my opinion.

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