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Old 03-13-2014, 12:54 PM   #326
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That could work in terms of the Sceptre being powered by a Mind Gem (that we still haven't officially seen anywhere). My only question then would be why make such a big deal out of an artifact that's essentially a one-off? I mean, what's more important: to possess the Mind Stone itself, or to possess an arguably diluted knockoff? Seems like the plan is to make the Sceptre be an honest to god "ARTIFACT" (capital letters), since Joss is re-using it. Doesn't mean it *has* to be Infinity Stone-powered, but it's looking increasingly more likely.

Perhaps the only big deal about it is that there is currently a device on Earth that's capable of turning people into slaves, and that alone is a pretty scary concept, whether it be in the hands of super manipulative SHIELD or the hands of neo-nazis.

If the staff only holds a portion of the Mind Stone's power, then what we're getting is just a taste of what may be a terrifying plot element when Thanos starts personally intervening with the Mind Stone in his possession.

Now if the staff is Strucker's ace in the hole, being that this will be the staff's second outing in the hands of a villain, I can almost see it getting destroyed at some point in Age of Ultron. Such an action would clear up a potentially catastrophic loose end, as well as prevent it from being overused in the franchise. That also doesn't really have to be the intent of whoever destroys it (though maybe Thor would express reservations towards that thing not being locked up in Odin's vault), but instead just make it a casualty of intense battle.

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Old 03-13-2014, 12:55 PM   #327
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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The problem I have with them being essentially test tube babies is believability: with all comic book movies, a certain suspension of disbelief is normal. It's believable that a super-secret international terrorist organisation could give a guy superspeed powers, but it's a whole other level to give someone the powers to literally alter reality and probability. That's not "comic book logic," that's straight up impossible for HYDRA or any human to do.
How is that any more impossible than a specific gene developing in Wanda Maximoff that allows her to literally alter reality and probability? Or any other "magical" ability that comic-book mutants have developed over the years.

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Old 03-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #328
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Odin hasn't been shown to have that level of power in the films. I doubt they'll have Wanda display that type of power from genetic experimentation.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:02 PM   #329
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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
He says there's "an age of miracles" on the way. People are reading too much into the wordplay here....I don't think "miracles" is a "substitute word" for "mutant," I think it's simply Von Strucker's way of saying that the Heroic Age (i.e., the age of full-blown superheroes and villains) is on the way, and that he's ushering it in by creating these genetic freaks.
I'm sorry but unless there's "Magic" involved via Doctor Strange, Terrigen Mists, or Asgardian... There's no logical reason Strucker could have come up with any kind of experimentation what so ever to create Wanda's abilities. It's incredibly unbelievable. You have to introduce and illogical "mystrious" factor to make that so (like the ones listed above) Add to that... why use a set of young twins rather than hydra soldier fodder?

I think it's pretty obvious he found these kids and captured them for there gifts... not giving them gifts.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:12 PM   #330
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I'm sorry but unless there's "Magic" involved via Doctor Strange, Terrigen Mists, or Asgardian... There's no logical reason Strucker could have come up with any kind of experimentation what so ever to create Wanda's abilities. It's incredibly unbelievable. You have to introduce and illogical "mystrious" factor to make that so (like the ones listed above) Add to that... why use a set of young twins rather than hydra soldier fodder?

I think it's pretty obvious he found these kids and captured them for there gifts... not giving them gifts.
It would make sense if they were *his* kids, and he experimented on them to make them superhumans. Sure it's evil as hell, but it's something an uber-Nazi like Von Strucker could do --- master race and all that. Plus, more to the point, it's something he DID do: again, the parallel is Fenris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenris_(comics)

Just tell the Fenris story and substitute Wanda and Pietro for Andrea and Andreas. It vaguely simulates the Magneto story, makes Von Strucker into a sick ****, and allows Wanda & Pietro to escape their evil father's clutches to become Avengers. Hell of a lot more dramatic (and canonical, in homage) than just having some ordinary terrorist group kidnap a couple of random superheroes nobody has heard of yet.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:27 PM   #331
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It would make sense if they were *his* kids, and he experimented on them to make them superhumans. Sure it's evil as hell, but it's something an uber-Nazi like Von Strucker could do --- master race and all that. Plus, more to the point, it's something he DID do: again, the parallel is Fenris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenris_(comics)

Just tell the Fenris story and substitute Wanda and Pietro for Andrea and Andreas. It vaguely simulates the Magneto story, makes Von Strucker into a sick ****, and allows Wanda & Pietro to escape their evil father's clutches to become Avengers. Hell of a lot more dramatic (and canonical, in homage) than just having some ordinary terrorist group kidnap a couple of random superheroes nobody has heard of yet.
trust me, i have no objection to that part... but Wanda's power set is pretty out there... there's no explination for a "miracle drug" or "experimentation" that would or could, ever cause that. You need an outside fantastical part to be able to bend the rules with. Anything grounded on earth just wouldn't be believable what so ever.

Probability is a tricky tricky beast... it really is impossible to explain through science...

And trust me.. i've read "The Science of the X-men" and they manage to use science as a way of actually explaining how many X-men's powers really could happen or be explained using scientific fact and theory. Probability certainly isn't one of them..

you can possibly get around explaining how she can effect others using minor mind control with pheromones or something... but it doesn't explain telekinesis or her effects of probability on inanimate objects. Science can't do squat with that.

Im all for them being Strucker's kids and using them as lab rats.. i just don't think he "GAVE" them the abilities.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:36 PM   #332
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trust me, i have no objection to that part... but Wanda's power set is pretty out there... there's no explination for a "miracle drug" or "experimentation" that would or could, ever cause that. You need an outside fantastical part to be able to bend the rules with. Anything grounded on earth just wouldn't be believable what so ever.

Probability is a tricky tricky beast... it really is impossible to explain through science...

And trust me.. i've read "The Science of the X-men" and they manage to use science as a way of actually explaining how many X-men's powers really could happen or be explained using scientific fact and theory. Probability certainly isn't one of them..

you can possibly get around explaining how she can effect others using minor mind control with pheromones or something... but it doesn't explain telekinesis or her effects of probability on inanimate objects. Science can't do squat with that.

Im all for them being Strucker's kids and using them as lab rats.. i just don't think he "GAVE" them the abilities.
Didn't the recent Wolfenstein have the plot crux be like, a mystical artifact that taps into energy from another realm or something?

Would it be infeasible to have Strucker's plan revolve around something similar? Maybe that's the source of Wanda's powers? (Petro however could be explained as genetic modification. May as well have HYDRA covering all the bases of superhuman ability.)

You can still keep the experimentation on people angle, but with Wanda you delve into a whole other part of the lore. She'd be Strucker's crux of 'magical' experimentation. Perhaps Wanda could even be a lead in to Dr. Strange lore.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:38 PM   #333
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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trust me, i have no objection to that part... but Wanda's power set is pretty out there... there's no explination for a "miracle drug" or "experimentation" that would or could, ever cause that. You need an outside fantastical part to be able to bend the rules with. Anything grounded on earth just wouldn't be believable what so ever.

Probability is a tricky tricky beast... it really is impossible to explain through science...

And trust me.. i've read "The Science of the X-men" and they manage to use science as a way of actually explaining how many X-men's powers really could happen or be explained using scientific fact and theory. Probability certainly isn't one of them..

you can possibly get around explaining how she can effect others using minor mind control with pheromones or something... but it doesn't explain telekinesis or her effects of probability on inanimate objects. Science can't do squat with that.

Im all for them being Strucker's kids and using them as lab rats.. i just don't think he "GAVE" them the abilities.
Fair enough. But if Von Strucker didn't give them powers via test tube or whatever, where *did* their powers come from? Feige has specifically ruled out one popular option (Inhumans), so what are the other options, besides (other) aliens, genetic tinkering, or the supernatural? Also, if Wanda & Pietro already had these powers, how come no one has ever heard of them? Being a speedster and an alterer of reality --- that's something that certainly would have attracted attention during the twins' lives, don't you think? Especially the attention of SHIELD.

To me, it still explains a lot more if the twins were genetically designed by Von Strucker, and kept in this dungeon until he's ready to unleash them upon the world (i.e., now). That would account for their powers remaining under the radar of SHIELD and the general public.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:39 PM   #334
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I expect they're going to be straight-up, born-with-powers-that-develop-later-in-life-mutants that we all know and love, they just won't be able to call them Mutants©™® because Fox is a bunch of fat smelly stupidheads. And I think the discovery of people like this is what Strucker is referring to when he says age of miracles, not that that is specifically the term they'll be using.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:48 PM   #335
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Fair enough. But if Von Strucker didn't give them powers via test tube or whatever, where *did* their powers come from? Feige has specifically ruled out one popular option (Inhumans), so what are the other options, besides (other) aliens, genetic tinkering, or the supernatural? Also, if Wanda & Pietro already had these powers, how come no one has ever heard of them? Being a speedster and an alterer of reality --- that's something that certainly would have attracted attention during the twins' lives, don't you think? Especially the attention of SHIELD.

To me, it still explains a lot more if the twins were genetically designed by Von Strucker, and kept in this dungeon until he's ready to unleash them upon the world (i.e., now). That would account for their powers remaining under the radar of SHIELD and the general public.
who's to say people haven't heard of them?

It's not like in Thor Jane foster was acknowledging Tony Stark or Hulk's existence either.

also, lets not forget the common plot story of them being completely afraid of there abilities... and are in hiding because of it. There's also the possibility of Strucker augmenting there abilities.. and making them manifest stronger. You can't genetically design probability powers... Quicksilvers works with that theory... because it's just an "extreme" version of a real physical ability.

also... Strucker could still be an "adoptive father" and he could have found the twins at a young age and have kept them locked up... it doesn't mean he HAS to give them powers.


Personally? I think it's much smarter for marvel to not yet answer the origin of the twin's abilities.. and make it be part of there storyline over the course of films. When asked about how they can do what they do.. they simply answer "I don't know". It makes things more mysterious and i think in all honesty gives the twins more substance to there characters over films... it's gotta be terrifying to not know where you came from (similar to Skye on AOS)

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:53 PM   #336
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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I expect they're going to be straight-up, born-with-powers-that-develop-later-in-life-mutants that we all know and love, they just won't be able to call them Mutants©™® because Fox is a bunch of fat smelly stupidheads. And I think the discovery of people like this is what Strucker is referring to when he says age of miracles, not that that is specifically the term they'll be using.
yeah, i think this as well... Stucker is a zealot. of course the fact he's using the term "Miracle" implies it's not science.. because if he created the abilities through science... why would he consider it a miracle? that completely goes against scientific logic... "Miracle" implies "unexplained"

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Old 03-13-2014, 02:01 PM   #337
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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I expect they're going to be straight-up, born-with-powers-that-develop-later-in-life-mutants that we all know and love, they just won't be able to call them Mutants©™® because Fox is a bunch of fat smelly stupidheads. And I think the discovery of people like this is what Strucker is referring to when he says age of miracles, not that that is specifically the term they'll be using.
Luckily Fox can't keep them from referring to Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch as being more evolved than the rest of mankind. If that's the reason they have powers that is.

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Mackie not in Age of Ultron:

http://www.movieweb.com/news/the-fal...tron-exclusive

Very different than Cheadle's reaction. When he was on Conan to promote "House of Lies" Cheadle was evasive about his involvement and only mentioned his roles in IM 2 and IM 3.
Although the Avengers do need more diversity, with him or even War Machine, the movie would definitely be a bit too crowded. You got the main 6, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Vision. If Whedon can fit either of them or even both of them in that would be awesome. I just hope if Whedon does, it's not too cramped to the point where War Machine and or Falcon don't get much to do to the point where it was wasn't worth putting them in the film.


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Old 03-13-2014, 02:23 PM   #338
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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yeah, i think this as well... Stucker is a zealot. of course the fact he's using the term "Miracle" implies it's not science.. because if he created the abilities through science... why would he consider it a miracle? that completely goes against scientific logic... "Miracle" implies "unexplained"
Science brags about "miracle drugs" all the time. I think the term "miracle" has been watered down enough over the eons to the point that very few people use the term literally nowadays.

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Old 03-13-2014, 02:36 PM   #339
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Science brags about "miracle drugs" all the time. I think the term "miracle" has been watered down enough over the eons to the point that very few people use the term literally nowadays.
let's not get into this again, lol
it started a fight over in another thread, it goes nowhere good, trust me

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Old 03-13-2014, 02:42 PM   #340
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Science brags about "miracle drugs" all the time. I think the term "miracle" has been watered down enough over the eons to the point that very few people use the term literally nowadays.
No "scientist" is going to call a drug a "miracle" the tabloids and press... yes.. but the scientist themselves... no

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:24 PM   #341
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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No "scientist" is going to call a drug a "miracle" the tabloids and press... yes.. but the scientist themselves... no
I wouldn't be so sure. You do realize there are a boat load of religious scientists, right?

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:33 PM   #342
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trust me, i have no objection to that part... but Wanda's power set is pretty out there... there's no explination for a "miracle drug" or "experimentation" that would or could, ever cause that.
we haven't seen her powers in action, yet. psychokinesis could explain a lot of what Wanda does (think 'Carrie').

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:51 PM   #343
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we haven't seen her powers in action, yet. psychokinesis could explain a lot of what Wanda does (think 'Carrie').
... But reality alteration and chaos magic?

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Old 03-13-2014, 04:25 PM   #344
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... But reality alteration and chaos magic?
Both of those are very recent additions to her powers. Especially the reality alteration, which was really only for one arc (House of M) and was later explained away as being way beyond her normal powers.

Her traditional powerset is very vague but usually described as "probability alteration" with a bit of magic thrown in, but much of what she does in the comics could be done with telekinesis.

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Old 03-13-2014, 05:55 PM   #345
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... But reality alteration and chaos magic?
that side of her power hasn't been mentioned in any interview, i've read. i think that she did mention mind control or something. that's still plausible as an extension of her telekinesis. even reality alteration can be psionic in nature ex. Onslaught, Legion, and Franklin Richards.

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Old 03-13-2014, 06:57 PM   #346
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Probability is a tricky tricky beast... it really is impossible to explain through science...

And trust me.. i've read "The Science of the X-men" and they manage to use science as a way of actually explaining how many X-men's powers really could happen or be explained using scientific fact and theory. Probability certainly isn't one of them..
That was a great read, still have it on my shelf.

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Old 03-13-2014, 07:58 PM   #347
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Is Alan Silvestri coming back?

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Old 03-13-2014, 09:32 PM   #348
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Man, I just saw another tv spot for next week's special and it had the Teaser for AoU suggesting we're going to SEE something

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:09 PM   #349
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There is a scientific foundation for SW's powers (some of them anyway): Quantum Mechanics. Probability and uncertainty seem to underlie everything. One could also work multiverse theory into it. Depicting a power that somehow affects these processes is the tricky part, but Joss claims hes figured it out. Unless he just said to hell with it and will make her a straight up witch/magic-user. But that would sort of make Strange less special. Cant wait to see what he comes up with.

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:10 PM   #350
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Concept art?

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