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Old 04-03-2014, 03:46 PM   #101
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

I'm not so sure Marvel would do that much better of job realizing the FF than Fox. I mean, I know that's a low standard for some, but still....remember: Marvel's main concern is setting up each Avengers movie, and I imagine they're struggling even to do that. An FF movie would be totally lost in the shuffle. The only thing that could come of it would be a few awesome crossovers which would be cool but unnecessary. I'm not saying Fox is inherently better, but I don't think FF in the MCU would be as big a game changer as everyone thinks it would be.

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Old 04-03-2014, 04:37 PM   #102
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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I'm not so sure Marvel would do that much better of job realizing the FF than Fox. I mean, I know that's a low standard for some, but still....remember: Marvel's main concern is setting up each Avengers movie, and I imagine they're struggling even to do that. An FF movie would be totally lost in the shuffle. The only thing that could come of it would be a few awesome crossovers which would be cool but unnecessary. I'm not saying Fox is inherently better, but I don't think FF in the MCU would be as big a game changer as everyone thinks it would be.
I'd have to disagree with that. I think Marvel Studios has a vested interest in preserving some of the core concepts behind their characters and present them in a way that appeals to fans and the general audience alike.

I think Fox is more inclined to tell their own story, using the trappings of the characters as a sort of window dressing.

I think the success or failure of Guardians of the Galaxy will go a long way in showing whether Marvel could pull off the Fantastic Four.

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Old 04-03-2014, 04:59 PM   #103
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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I'd have to disagree with that. I think Marvel Studios has a vested interest in preserving some of the core concepts behind their characters and present them in a way that appeals to fans and the general audience alike.

I think Fox is more inclined to tell their own story, using the trappings of the characters as a sort of window dressing.

I think the success or failure of Guardians of the Galaxy will go a long way in showing whether Marvel could pull off the Fantastic Four.
Marvel may want to, but my point is that they may not necessarily have the resources to. Whereas Fox, with only X-Men competing for their attention, can focus more attention on expanding the individual universes.

Also, is wanting to "tell their own story" necessarily that bad? I'm not saying to throw out the comics, but sometimes it can be good to try something new (unless you're Tom Rothman, in which case it's good to try not making movies).

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:04 PM   #104
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

There is "telling their own story" and then there is being different just for the sake of being different. The latter always leads to disaster and is what the FF reboot appears to be, so far.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:07 PM   #105
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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Men Lie

Women Lie

But numbers never lie (Nor are they mistaken)

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-franchises#p4

Bet the (So called) "experts" will stay clear of that just keep the validity of their weak arguments about the importance of "Loyalists"
Just read the whole article. Very good stuff there.
Plus, LOL @ Feige being the only exec at FOX reading the actual comic books and being adamant about sticking to source material. There were a lot of heated discussions about how many characters should be shown. Makes me wonder if he was for or against that IM3 twist... Guess we'll never know.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:08 PM   #106
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There is "telling their own story" and then there is being different just for the sake of being different. The latter always leads to disaster and is what the FF reboot appears to be, so far.
Really? The only place where I really see that is in Jordan's casting, and maybe a little in Teller's. Other than that, where?

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:18 PM   #107
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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Really? The only place where I really see that is in Jordan's casting, and maybe a little in Teller's. Other than that, where?
Nowhere. We don't know the story yet. People think it will be crazy inaccurate but there's no evidence to support that idea, all that is known is the cast which is three males and a woman.

Just because it's not 616 ages doesn't mean it's inaccurate. It could be very accurate to the source they've chosen, UFF. or a mix of several versions like in The Avengers.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:19 PM   #108
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

Hmmmmmmmmm


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Old 04-03-2014, 05:26 PM   #109
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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Men Lie

Women Lie

But numbers never lie (Nor are they mistaken)

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-franchises#p4

Bet the (So called) "experts" will stay clear of that just keep the validity of their weak arguments about the importance of "Loyalists"
"Figures lie and liars figure"

that chart has nothing to do with loyalists. i'm not even sure why you posted it. Marvel's doing well because they smoothly integrated the individual stories into a team-up movie. it was bold and historic. plus they struck gold with Robert Downey jr; who pretty much made Tony Stark into himself. the movie (all 3 of them) changed stuff left and right. and they very clearly weren't asking for the input of comic book nerds. the advice from the boards would have been to put that guy from Mortal Kombat into the first movie as the Mandarin. they probably would have recommended some schlepp like Johnny Depp as Stark, as well. wake me up when you have some better evidence.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:37 PM   #110
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

Really, anything that interrupts the creative process leads to a crap film, whether it's studio execs or "loyalists". Too much leaning to either side is a bad move.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:43 PM   #111
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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Really? The only place where I really see that is in Jordan's casting, and maybe a little in Teller's. Other than that, where?
You can add to that Bell, who doesn't exactly resemble a New York street tough turned college football star. But the most egregious change is that the three male leads are being played by three dudes born within a year of each other. I dont know if Trank did the casting that way in order to accommodate his pal Jordan, but it completely changes the team in a way that renders the Trank's interpretation completely unrecognizable to anyone familiar with any iteration of the team. To me, that's the "creative" decision making that renders this a FFINO version.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:45 PM   #112
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

Its so funny seeing you guys defend this production.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:49 PM   #113
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"Figures lie and liars figure"

that chart has nothing to do with loyalists. i'm not even sure why you posted it. Marvel's doing well because they smoothly integrated the individual stories into a team-up movie. it was bold and historic. plus they struck gold with Robert Downey jr; who pretty much made Tony Stark into himself. the movie (all 3 of them) changed stuff left and right. and they very clearly weren't asking for the input of comic book nerds. the advice from the boards would have been to put that guy from Mortal Kombat into the first movie as the Mandarin. they probably would have recommended some schlepp like Johnny Depp as Stark, as well. wake me up when you have some better evidence.
Sure it's not (smh) Just respecting the source material period looks to be the separation of the profiting abilities between MS and Fox. Is it all about the loyalist? Not really but if you respect the source characters the loyalists will support and gush about the product. Then the average person is interested. And that's the goal. Get the GA to care. Everyone knows a CB Geek. And they refer to that person when a CBM is released. If Fox truly wanted to be like Marvel they'd start there. But they don't have a clue. CA-TWS is going to put more pressure on the genre in that Marvel Films aren't one demential.

But the numbers say that the fans matter in the profit game. And the profit is the only argument I'll hear. All else is drivel.

Edit. Why don't you read the article. Then comment


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Old 04-03-2014, 05:57 PM   #114
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

You guys defending this movie have the very same mindset the studios has, and thats "word of mouth does not travel and does not affect the perception of the production. All this movie has to do to be a success is simply exist, people will buy tickets because they're so desperate for superhero movies no matter the quality."

I guess thats why Catwoman, Green Lantern, Ghost Rider, X Men origins, etc, all did so well at the box office. A misleading trailer always makes a guaranteed hit.

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Old 04-03-2014, 06:38 PM   #115
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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You can add to that Bell, who doesn't exactly resemble a New York street tough turned college football star. But the most egregious change is that the three male leads are being played by three dudes born within a year of each other. I dont know if Trank did the casting that way in order to accommodate his pal Jordan, but it completely changes the team in a way that renders the Trank's interpretation completely unrecognizable to anyone familiar with any iteration of the team. To me, that's the "creative" decision making that renders this a FFINO version.
Bell has enough credits as a badass action hero (as well as a solid enough American accent) that I could buy him as a tough guy. And anyway, he's probably going to be covered in CG orange rocks before the forty minute mark, so what he actually looks like doesn't bother me that much.

As far as the age differences, it's called "acting". Have one actor pretend to be older and another pretend to be younger. As long as they act like family, I don't think it's that big of a problem.

An interesting tidbit about Jordan's casting though...in this HR story, it mentions that Jordan's casting was them "exercising the option [they] had on the actor after Chronicle". Sounds like Trank may not have been entirely responsible for that decision.

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:20 PM   #116
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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An interesting tidbit about Jordan's casting though...in this HR story, it mentions that Jordan's casting was them "exercising the option [they] had on the actor after Chronicle". Sounds like Trank may not have been entirely responsible for that decision.
So basically, "in no way shape or form was he the person for the role but we gave it to him anyways just because"

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:50 PM   #117
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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You guys defending this movie have the very same mindset the studios has, and thats "word of mouth does not travel and does not affect the perception of the production. All this movie has to do to be a success is simply exist, people will buy tickets because they're so desperate for superhero movies no matter the quality."

I guess thats why Catwoman, Green Lantern, Ghost Rider, X Men origins, etc, all did so well at the box office. A misleading trailer always makes a guaranteed hit.
Reminds me of how Hulk had the biggest 2nd week drop off ever.And that was at the beginning of the CBM craze.People won't go when WOM gets around how bad a film is.This film has got next to nothing in way of positive WOM so far.

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:02 PM   #118
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So basically, "in no way shape or form was he the person for the role but we gave it to him anyways just because"
No, if this is true it's, "In no way shape or form was he the person for the role, but we gave it to him anyway just to save a few bucks."

If they really did have the actor under contract already for a totally unrelated film and threw him in this one, they're penny pinching. If this is actually true, that's pretty freaking terrible. I'm against this casting and I still hope HR got some bad intel on that one.

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:05 PM   #119
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So basically, "in no way shape or form was he the person for the role but we gave it to him anyways just because"
because Trank was impressed with his performance in 'Chronicle.' how is this news?

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:07 PM   #120
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Sure it's not (smh) Just respecting the source material period looks to be the separation of the profiting abilities between MS and Fox. Is it all about the loyalist? Not really but if you respect the source characters the loyalists will support and gush about the product. Then the average person is interested. And that's the goal. Get the GA to care. Everyone knows a CB Geek. And they refer to that person when a CBM is released. If Fox truly wanted to be like Marvel they'd start there. But they don't have a clue. CA-TWS is going to put more pressure on the genre in that Marvel Films aren't one demential.

But the numbers say that the fans matter in the profit game. And the profit is the only argument I'll hear. All else is drivel.

Edit. Why don't you read the article. Then comment
that article was drivel. marketing is what gets people to go see movies. only an idiot would rely on word of mouth; which i haven't recieved for any of the marvel movies.

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:09 PM   #121
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Its so funny seeing you guys defend this production.
now imagine if i posted that i find a bunch of people being butthurt over the film funny.

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #122
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that article was drivel. marketing is what gets people to go see movies. only an idiot would rely on word of mouth; which i haven't recieved for any of the marvel movies.
Yep, word of mouth is completely and utterly useless. Its all about having the flashiest trailer.

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now imagine if i posted that i find a bunch of people being butthurt over the film funny.
Go ahead, but you know we'll be having the last laugh

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Old 04-03-2014, 09:55 PM   #123
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

Word of mouth is not useless. Hulk wouldn't have had such a huge drop after the initial week if that was true. Avatar is a good example of word of mouth giving a film legs, as well. It was word of mouth about a stupid gimmick attached to an okay (but flashy!) film, but still. Word of mouth is not irrelevant.

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Old 04-04-2014, 07:18 AM   #124
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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that article was drivel. marketing is what gets people to go see movies. only an idiot would rely on word of mouth; which i haven't recieved for any of the marvel movies.
Marketing gets them to see it when it opens. If the film isn't much good and gets terrible WOM then it won't catch the more casusal viewers, and won't get much repeat custom. If so then it will be heavily' front loaded', making half (or more) of its overall money in that 1st weekend, and suffer big % drops each week afterwards. Both of Story's efforts basically followed that pattern.

For a film to have 'legs' (like Avengers, Iron-Man, Nolan's Batman etc) good word of mouth is vital.

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Old 04-04-2014, 07:23 AM   #125
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part

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Word of mouth is not useless. Hulk wouldn't have had such a huge drop after the initial week if that was true. Avatar is a good example of word of mouth giving a film legs, as well. It was word of mouth about a stupid gimmick attached to an okay (but flashy!) film, but still. Word of mouth is not irrelevant.
Yup. Hulk 03 is a classic example. It broke the records for a June opening at that time, but suffered huge drops each week because that audience for that weekend were telling everyone else what a let down it all was. It basically made half its overall gross in that opening weekend.

Word of mouth does matter.

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