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Old 06-22-2014, 10:24 PM   #501
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Sure, but the bots all usually get lines even without an arc. Jolt is the only autobot I can remember not talking through the whole franchise.
And he was only there for one scene, Shockwave was another one that didn't really talk.

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Old 06-22-2014, 11:47 PM   #502
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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That's a false equivalency. 22 Jump Street and Beverly Hills Cop were set up to be comedies from the very beginning, and they advertised their rauchiness. Transformers was not. And Bay explicitly said that DOTM would be more serious, and it turned out to be a flat-out lie on his part. And the "it's just robots fighting" excuse fails as well. Things like Beast Wars or Transformers Prime shows that you can do that, and still tell reasonably mature/serious stories. And they certainly didn't rely on racist/sexist/homophobic/offensive humor. That's all on Bay.
So you're saying that because they, quote on quote didn't show how much humor was going to be in the films at the outset that none of what I said then applies? Sorry it doesn't work that way. And even if it did, that would mean everyone walking into part two would then have been indoctrinated and no longer able to make this 'claim'.
However, like I said, it doesn't work that way, how a studio chooses to sell their films means little when it comes to judging a serious movie as a serious movie a judging an action comedy as just that. These films, with their constant scenes of actors hamming it up are action comedies....period.

As for Bay 'promising' the third film would be 'more serious' I must have missed the quote. I do recall him speaking of what they set out to do relative to the disaster that was the second film(and how that came about..no script) and why this the third one would benefit. He also said several things about trying to capture the magic and human story of the first. Anyone that insists DOTM was the same as ROTF is kidding themselves imo. I'd argue it was more focused than most modern comedies. Lastly, If bay said it would be darker, than he was also right about that, I saw sam doing things in the third film that would quality as darker and 'more serious' than the prior films.

It's only a lie if we go by what you claim he said, and as you say he said it. Which, is clearly false. Bay and the producers have been pretty upfront about what they aim to do with these films. The recent producer interview talks all about it.

"racist/sexist/homophobic/offensive humor" is actually in alot of movies but only called out in bay films. Again 22 jump street....But then again, I suppose that film's marketing excuses all of the above. Secondly, I personally haven't seen any of that in the films, not in any sort of abundance. But that's me.

As for TF prime and Beast Wars and such, last time I checked, neither of which appealed to the same level of audience these films do. There maybe several different reasons as to why but that fact is they don't. That's what is actually 'all on bay'.
The next time someone tells me the comic books are 'better' I will have to ask them how many people buy the comic book(and consistently). I'm imagining it's not 1.3 billion worth in sales(per issue). The content is designed to do generate different returns. Simply appealing to some portion of fanboys isn't what paramount is interested in. That might be what they are into with GI Joe but not here.

^That last part isn't me suggesting things need to be silly or what not to sell. Rather that the two shows you point to simply don't have the burden of performance to this level and scale an audience, thus constantly pointing to them as some example is...mostly pointless cause it doesn't actually prove anything.

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Old 06-23-2014, 02:56 AM   #503
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

3 fresh reviews right now at Rotten Tomatoes.

Could this be the best Transformers movie ever?!

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Old 06-23-2014, 03:16 AM   #504
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

Anything over 40% is a solid success imo when it comes to the critics.
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^That is a hell of a long run-time, never thought a movie in this franchise would be longer than the last 2, but oh well.

I have always said I would prefer a movie be overly long than overly short.
Yeah, I think this franchise has a bit of balancing issues though. It could hurt it. People can get impatient waiting for the bots if they are focusing on the humans too long in the middle of the film. Especially if there is nothing really entertaining going on. I thought the first managed it alot a better, but at the same time that build of waiting for Prime and the others was completely new. As were Sam and Mikaela.

I thought DOTM and ROTF could have both been a bit better (at least pacing wise) if they tightened it up in editing.
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And he was only there for one scene, Shockwave was another one that didn't really talk.
Yeah, I think he said Prime or Optimus near the start of DOTM but that was it.

If they just had Grimlock say "Me King" I would have been ecstatic. They wouldn't need much. Although I am very surprised Bay didn't use these guys for banter. They are perfect for his humor. Figures, the one time it would make sense...


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Old 06-23-2014, 03:25 AM   #505
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Anything over 40% is a solid success imo when it comes to the critics.
Thats still a low rating though.

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Old 06-23-2014, 03:26 AM   #506
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Thats still a low rating though.
Yeah, I know. Bay will never get a break though. Even the first was in the 50s, and The Rock the 60s. Critics just don't like him.


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Old 06-23-2014, 03:31 AM   #507
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

May I ask: Transformers 2 & 3 are bad yet made money, alot of money. Why? Why did people see them and gave each film a billion or close to a billion dollars in the BO? What did they see in those movies that others, universally even, didn't? And if they saw what everyone in the world saw, then why did they make them successful?

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Old 06-23-2014, 03:32 AM   #508
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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May I ask: Transformers 2 & 3 are bad yet made money, alot of money. Why?
Cause they are fun. People like Transformers and big budget thrill rides.

These films have some of the most epic and insane **** ever in them.

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Old 06-23-2014, 03:36 AM   #509
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

Because despite these movies not having the best writing it does have the advantage of being some of the most technically well shot movies that involve complex CGI in live action to date and I say that with a complete genuine heart.

The level of scope Bay is able to capture is almost unrivaled and that alone gives these movies something that other blockbusters struggle to achieve. No other director (or at least very few) can set up a shot so optimally for ILM to go to work in and deliver the technical marvels that are these Autobots and Decepticons battling it out.

The level of composting is also on a league of its own. Say everything you want about Michael Bay but the man is the most technical savvy director alive.

Yes, I said it.

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Old 06-23-2014, 03:38 AM   #510
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1



You said it alot better then I did.

I think it's also a franchise that almost all of us grew up with at this point. Regardless of the decade born. Within the past 30 years kids and teens have had Transformers in the mainstream. Pretty amazing how strong it has stayed.


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Old 06-23-2014, 03:55 AM   #511
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

To tell you the truth, I kinda like the joke Doug Walker made by turning Michael Bay into a porn director, and when it comes to the tropes that his movies have, action, sex appeal, etc., his response in how to handle them is simple: "porn it!"

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Old 06-23-2014, 04:05 AM   #512
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

Bay is a great action director, The Rock is one of my all time favorites. But I feel like he's wasting his time with these movies. But who doesn't love more money.

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Old 06-23-2014, 05:47 AM   #513
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

I didn't realize, but the hot chick in Transformers 4 was previously in the Avatar : Last Airbender movie.





Damn, she grew up a lot.

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Old 06-23-2014, 06:03 AM   #514
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Binker View Post
May I ask: Transformers 2 & 3 are bad yet made money, alot of money. Why? Why did people see them and gave each film a billion or close to a billion dollars in the BO? What did they see in those movies that others, universally even, didn't? And if they saw what everyone in the world saw, then why did they make them successful?
The way people talk about the TF movies you'd think they were the most narratively incoherent movies ever made.

At least they ramp up the nostalgia by having Peter Cullen voice-act, the sound effects are good, the fight scenes are good, there's some mythology too, and yes some of the jokes are funny too, like when two robots end up in the giant deception helicarrier and say "major cluster ****" and then proceed to accidentally destroy the helicarrier.

I can name plenty of far more boring and insipid movies that other geeks love.

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Old 06-23-2014, 07:25 AM   #515
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

Yeah, some pages back i asked if she had grown as an actress, since she was also in Bates Motel.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:32 AM   #516
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

I meant grown physically ;-)

Off-topic but her costume in the last airbender photo looks nice, maybe I should watch that movie, I never bothered to see it because I read everywhere that it sucked.

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Old 06-23-2014, 07:37 AM   #517
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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I meant grown physically ;-)

Off-topic but her costume in the last airbender photo looks nice, maybe I should watch that movie, I never bothered to see it because I read everywhere that it sucked.
I know what you meant, i was just saying that a few pages back i asked about her, but not about her physical aspect, i asked about how her acting abilities had grown.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:39 AM   #518
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
3 fresh reviews right now at Rotten Tomatoes.

Could this be the best Transformers movie ever?!
The last one started high too. Things will even out as the reviews roll in I'm sure. The best chance this has is if people rate it 'relative' to what they hated about the prior ones.

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May I ask: Transformers 2 & 3 are bad yet made money, alot of money. Why? Why did people see them and gave each film a billion or close to a billion dollars in the BO? What did they see in those movies that others, universally even, didn't? And if they saw what everyone in the world saw, then why did they make them successful?
I think the best answer to that question is that the films do what they set out to do, and do it well. That is, they entertain people that are looking to be entertained. Like I said before, a film like 22 jump street or the Hangover can entertain without having exquisite substance filled writing or some deep character study. It can have ranchy humor and silly but fun action. Those same things are very much at play here only on a larger scale and it's the greater audience that is given their consensus as opposed to the few.
On paper it's the same type of 'low art' the only difference is that of some subjective opinion about just what it is the Hangover achieves. Very hard to quantify when it comes to hundreds of thousands of people in the audience.

In short, A big mac can be the most enjoyed and championed food on the planet when it comes to the masses. It doesn't need to be meet Gordon Ramsey's standard for presentation and pedigree or nutrition. This is art and people like what they like.

I also think when bay get's things onto the freeway he's unrivaled. His best sequences involve movement of that nature.

I was saddened to find that even with the promise of Sentinels the Singer still ended up delivering his type of action and scope. Would have been great if we really got to the bots vs the xmen really go at in the open with same scale. Before Avengers and MOS, TF(and spidey2) was really the only place that did this imo. It's just a different feel that appreciates the scale.
When it comes to action anyways.

Bay seems to have a desire to ground whatever scale of action he's trying to convey in the 'real' world space. Even that all cgi TF3 opening. This goes along way. It's not that they transform on a highway at 90mph, it's that they do it in the real world in a real sequence...Things tend to lose this the bigger they get but bays things still feel as tangible as if it were to humans driving in a back alley. Rare talent imo.

When seen without cynical eyes, the simplicity and scale(and lighting) are no doubt bliss for the 14 year old audience member. Cameron himself has spoken to how his own kids feel about the films.

When optimus armored up and said "let's roll" in the fourth quarter and the world was about to end...I can't imagine any 14 year old isn't right there in front of their tv on a saturday morning.

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Old 06-23-2014, 07:41 AM   #519
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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I meant grown physically ;-)

Off-topic but her costume in the last airbender photo looks nice, maybe I should watch that movie, I never bothered to see it because I read everywhere that it sucked.
I never discourage anyone from watching anything. But I would suggest if you have the time to watch the animated series. It's pretty remarkable and something the movie doesn't quite capture imo.

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Old 06-23-2014, 07:59 AM   #520
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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I never discourage anyone from watching anything. But I would suggest if you have the time to watch the animated series. It's pretty remarkable and something the movie doesn't quite capture imo.
Thanks for the suggestion.

What I'm watching now is "Silicon Valley", tremendous show so far.

I was torn between Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad next. Maybe I should try Avatar.

Soon Gotham and Constantine will be on, I'll have to make choices.

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Old 06-23-2014, 08:08 AM   #521
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

I recommend you watch Avatar: The Last Airbender before watching the film.

If you have to chose GoT and BB, i would recommend BB, but it has already ended, so you won't have as much to look forward to after you end it, with the exception of an upcoming spin-off set before its events.

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Old 06-23-2014, 10:11 AM   #522
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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Anything over 40% is a solid success imo when it comes to the critics.


Yeah, I think this franchise has a bit of balancing issues though. It could hurt it. People can get impatient waiting for the bots if they are focusing on the humans too long in the middle of the film. Especially if there is nothing really entertaining going on. I thought the first managed it alot a better, but at the same time that build of waiting for Prime and the others was completely new. As were Sam and Mikaela.

I thought DOTM and ROTF could have both been a bit better (at least pacing wise) if they tightened it up in editing.


.
I do think both of the last 2 movies could have lost 10-15 mins and been better for it.

But again, I would much rather a movie be too long than far too short like the X3's and TDW's of this world.


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Because despite these movies not having the best writing it does have the advantage of being some of the most technically well shot movies that involve complex CGI in live action to date and I say that with a complete genuine heart.

The level of scope Bay is able to capture is almost unrivaled and that alone gives these movies something that other blockbusters struggle to achieve. No other director (or at least very few) can set up a shot so optimally for ILM to go to work in and deliver the technical marvels that are these Autobots and Decepticons battling it out.

The level of composting is also on a league of its own. Say everything you want about Michael Bay but the man is the most technical savvy director alive.

Yes, I said it.
Agreed, for all his faults Bay doesnt get the credit he deserves for the wonders he can do on screen.

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Old 06-23-2014, 10:34 AM   #523
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

I start shaking my head with glee because the bayhem is so unapologetic in its awesome insanity. When the people just jumped out of the window and started sliding down the building i just said "what" and started smiling. Like bad boys 2 when they started throwing cars. I'm shooting an intense short film right now, and i'm glad that transformers comes out because i really need that fun.

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Old 06-23-2014, 10:50 AM   #524
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

1 week away and we know nothing about Galvatron oh well I give them credit for keeping the consistency in butchering the villains in this case
Megatron/Galvatron

Lockdown looks cool though and that's the thing these movies are a can't miss in Imax that's why the formula won't change can't wait to see
grimlock own in the 3rd act

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Old 06-23-2014, 11:09 AM   #525
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME. - Part 1

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I start shaking my head with glee because the bayhem is so unapologetic in its awesome insanity. When the people just jumped out of the window and started sliding down the building i just said "what" and started smiling. Like bad boys 2 when they started throwing cars. I'm shooting an intense short film right now, and i'm glad that transformers comes out because i really need that fun.
Are you talking about the part in the 3rd film? I don't remember the bits in the building being all that "wtf" inducing, i just remember them being impressive.

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